Guest Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I have been working on my sons xmas present with him, a 1958 Olds 88 that we know nothing about. We found that the choke was not hooked up and the engine would not take additional gas without stalling. I re-installed the choke so that it would activate the choke plate. It then seamed to run fine. I took it out for the first time the other day. It started with no problem (it was -4 degrees f) once warm the car would not take the gas properly. It would bog down and smoke like crazy for a bit, then it would run fine for a few miles. The car stalled out and would not start. An hour later, once cold the car started again. I noticed at that point an oily gas residue at the base of the carb. ???? I have watched the carb. and the choke seems to be working. What am I not doing or checking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 What hits me is a fuel contamination problem. Especially if this is a car that sat for a long time as it appears from the post. Not familiar with what type of filters are on that car but it certainly sounds like a typical case of fuel sediment clogging up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Without knowing more facts, let me present a few basic ideas. Rule #1 of diagnostics is fuel,spark and air, and never overlook the obvious. I would ask to see the engine running throught the warm-up cycle with the air cleaner cover off to see if the choke is staying closed first of all. As the car warms up, it needs less fuel and may be stalling due to loading up. The second thing I would check is for vacuum leaks. As rubber heats, it expands, and you may have a crack in a line that comes from the direct manifold vacuum that will starve the car on a lower mixture of fuel once it warms up. If you have any lines that are 'squshy' or have cracks around the vacuum port, replace then, it's just good housekeeping and maintenace. If you have access to a vacuum gauge, that is what I'd do, in conjunction with replacing the hoses. Attach the vacuum gauge to the cruise control vacuum port on your manifold behind the carburetor and see if it slowly drops when it's getting warm. If you have a sudden drop, you have a temperature regulated switch that has a vacumm circuit leak. After learning how to read vacuum, you also can diagnose a host of ther problems such as sticky or burnt valves, clogged converters or engine timing issues. but that's for another time. Your engine needs a 14.3-1 ratio of air-fuel for optimum running, but that cannot be realized without the vacuum to pull the fuel into the engine, all of your carburetor jets and metering rods are based on that ratio throughout it's operating range of rpm and temperature. operation. A vacuum leak can cause many symptoms of other problems at all differnt speeds and is the cheapest fix of all. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 After re-reading what you'd said more carefully. I'd rebuild the carb. I suspect that you have a needle valve that is sticking and dumping in too much fuel. It appears to be a flooding condition that's erratic, a textbook example of a sticking float, and or needle. Since the maintenace history of the car is an unknown, I'd do that after checking for vacuum leaks, along with changing the fuel filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Thanks for the direction. To my knowledge the car has not sat for a long time, the previous owner claims to have driven it all summer. I find it hard to believe since so many things did not work properly. A carburetor rebuild sounds like a good idea. Are kits readily available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Here's a link that I found for you that might help, NAPA doesn't list one and they usually are your best bet for a lot of the older parts. Sparky's is a member of the OCA, he might be a good bet for you . Hope this helps!http://www.oldcarnetwork.com/vendors/carburetors.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 If you've found an oily residue at the carb, that means fuel has deteriorated into varnish. Do you also have a nasty soured gasoline smell anywhere? BTW welcome to the world of Old Cars... netherworld that it is.In addition to rebuilding the carb and fuel pump, I'd drop the gas tank and clean it, and replace all rubber fuel lines. I'm bound to think it has some varnish in it after all these years, and current fuel formulations have solvents that will immediately start eating it off the tank and dissolving it into the fuel. When it makes its way to the carb, you have a mess. And if it gets to the intake valve stems and guides, you got a big mess. I've heard of the stuff gumming up valves to the point of bending pushrods and jamming valves into pistons. Also possible that modern gasoline has started to eat the rubber fuel lines or fuel pump diaphrams from inside and the residue has fouled the carb.Sparky's one of the finest Q-Jet guys I've ever met, but I don't know if he's started tackling 4GCs yet. A couple years ago he hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Here's some info on Olds carbs and the ID numbers if your tag is gone to help you get the right kit. Save you a lot of grief when it's apart. http://archive.classicoldsmobile.com/html/83.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 the best carb kits are made by Standard/HyGrade. The have better rubber for modern fuels according to my experince and lab tests. Just FYI if you can get one, I'll see what I can come up with for you whilst I surf, <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Thanks for all the great info.....I purchased a repair manual which when it finally arrives should help me with the stupid questions...But one more before I get the book (bear with me when I ask these dumb questions). There is an air intake to the choke stat. what is this supose to connect to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 The choke hot air tube connects to it. There should be a 1/4" diameter or so tube going from the choke stat to the intake manifold. There is another tube in the intake manifold that runs thru the exhaust crossover passage and is open to atmosphere on the other end.I think 58 used the intake manifold for choke heat. The tube may go to the RH exhaust manifold.What happens is:There is a small vacuum port inside the choke housing. This vacuum draws outside air thru the heat tube in the manifold to the choke stat housing. The heated air heats the choke coil spring which relaxes and opens the choke flap.If the tube isn't connected, that could have caused the original hard start/flooding out problem. Might explain why the choke was disconnected too.Try www.fusick.com and see if they have a reproduction heat tube. It's possible the heat tube in the manifold may have rusted out or burned thru, or even got plugged with carbon. It's a straight tube so you can probably rod it out. Try blowing it out with compressed air and if it's plugged that might get it out.If the manifold tube is rusted out, until you can replace the tube or manifold, you can get a hand choke kit that will allow driving the car. Plus the kid learns how to use one. Or you could even install an electric choke if you want to keep the automatic choke and fast idle working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Thank You all for the direction and information. The root of the problem was the choke tube or lack of one. For a temp fix I bent some brake line and attached from the choke housing to the intake manifold - worked immediately. As for the carb rebuild, it is going to be done soon. Re-checked the oily residue and found it was more or less gas leaking from the carb due to choke problems and once the tube was installed and all worked properly there were no signs of leaks. I am now thinking that the residue was not oily, just all the other dirt and grease on top of the engine mixed with the gas.Again Thank you all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 And once again, the forum is doing what is was designed to do- help keep another old car on the road and running sweet! Dderal, have you contacted Eastern Mass GMO or New England Olds Clubs? Both are based in Massachusetts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I have not contacted anyone as of yet. I have only had the car for a couple months and have been trying to get it ready for the road. I figured that most car clubs are hibernating this time of year and was going to look into clubs in the spring. Thanks for the info, I will look into these.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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