BLOWER RESULTS

[Guest]

OK, Here are the numbers...

Test conditions: Overcast 80 deg. Engine temp. 205-210 deg. Flat road.

Without blower hooked up (just disconnected fuse).

1st Run 0-60 = 8.07 sec.

2nd Run 0-60 = 8.01 sec.

With blower hooked up

1st Run 0-60 = 8.02 sec.

2nd Run 0-60 = 8.01 sec.

Ummm, placebo anyone??

Also realized that I was making runs against a 15-20 mph wind. I drove it a few miles to cool down the engine to around 180 and made a run with the wind

yielding the best time yet of 0-60 = 7.84 1/4 mile in 16.1 @ 87.6 mph.

I have to admit that the blower probably doesn't do much if anything at all.

I also did a Horsepower run showing 134 H.P. seems low, but I guess that is figured at the wheels and including drag according to the G-tech manual.

I still think the blower would work if it was putting out more cfm, I'm working on a prototype. Coulda sworn it felt faster with it??

OK Jerry & ALF STOP LAUGHING!

[Guest EDBS0]

Shiver me timbers . . . I would have lost money if betting

[Guest Greg Ross]

Dale,

The G-Tech is generating what looks like accurate #'s. The Chassis Dyno runs I did this past Summer recorded peak of 137 HP(without Drag). Big temperatures though, were those beginning or ending Temps.

[Guest]

Dale, my friend:

Ain't nobody laughing at you. Your work and research are appreciated. You gotta remember that Edison, Marconi, Bell, et. al., had a ton of derision heaped upon 'em while tinkering around trying to make their little things work. Keep up the good work!

ALF and Jerry

[Guest]

Engine temps. were around 205-210 through all tests except the last run, I drove it to cool it down to 180. Looks like it runs better at lower temps.

[Charlie B.]

I'm disappointed in the results. My boat is now out of the water and I was going to take the bilge blower out of it and put it on one of my Reattas Maybe I should just take one of those big GMs'out of the baot and stuff it under the hood. I'm sure that would answer the problem of lowering the front end.

Charlie

[Guest kennyw]

but my question [is] could it be helping with regular driving????? not wot. I thought we all knew that it was not going to provide any thing ar high rpm's. But at low rpm's where the motor lives under 3,000 do you think it shows any inprovement. A few of us would buy if this was the case.

[Guest Greg Ross]

Stands to reason that it would at a minimum, in the low to midrange overcome the resistance of the Filter and the Ductwork.

Makes sense to me.

[Guest]

I would bet you still can feel it at partial throttle. Full throttle @ around 5k rpm is right at the limit of the blower, so it is no surprise that it doesn't really help a full bore run although there should be a slight help getting to the max. rpm?? My best runs were with the engine cool, around 150 degF. and it slowed down a little as it got hot. Did you make the runs in opposite directions each time? It's the only way to average out wind and any slope in the road. My best was a 7.98 0-60 and yours is excellent. That's a good half second faster than the factory values. It doesn't sound like a whole lot but 85 mph is over 120 ft/sec so assuming constant acceleration , that would be about a two Reatta length lead at the trap.

[Guest]

Thanks Jerry & ALF, have you heard about my magnetic/vapor injection system? D.K. you may be on to something, maybe the best use of the blower would be kicking on at low rpm to enhance gas mpg.?

[Guest]

All 4 runs were made in the same direction, which I later realized was against

the wind. Last run was opposite way after cooling it off to 180. Also used 93 oct. gas. & the cold air box taken off, air filter left on. I think I'll go with your design for the cold air setup Hal, functional and less cluttered than mine. I'm hoping to have a high cfm high torque blower ready to try soon.

[sahein]

I wonder what it would run like with a leaf blower plumbed in? Are there any high power leaf blowers that would fit under the hood?

[Guest]

Odd that you should mention the leaf blower. I planned to try my gas powered one to test the MAF to see if the reading will go above 170, or if it has that limit as Padgett has found in the tables. I have a spare which I planned to connect to the car wiring and blow the air through it. My turbo does fit on the left side of the engine and I suspect the leaf blower would go there also, although a two stroke purring away under the hood should get some strange stares

[Guest Reatta1]

Time to try the squirrel cage and squirrel?

Kidding, trial and error is the way advances are made. Keep it up and you'll succeed eventualy.

[Guest]

I'm not opposed to small rodents or garden equiptment residing under my hood.

Heck, if it'll produce some H.P.

From looking at leaf blowers, the 12 Volt ones I've seen don't put out that much, however the 110 Volts do. Inverter? might work? Would be interested in the results of that test Hal.

[Guest]

Not good results on the leaf blower test. The cold engine started and ran normally with the spare MAF connected. When it warmed up, it died. If I disconnect the MAF wiring, the engine will run and there are readings that bounce around coming from the MAF even though disconnected? Perhaps these are default values because the engine will run and drive without the MAF connected. The engine will restart and will run if the rpm is elevated with the spare connected but it is possible it is bad or was damaged by the leaf blower air flow. When I tried it with the key on and engine off, leaf blower idling, the reading was zero but there is a LOT of air flowing through the MAF. This will require additional investigation for another reason, I plan to blow the turbo project through the MAF and if this is a problem I will need to redesign the MAF placement

[padgett]

I would recommend putting the MAF and the throttle plate in front of the turbo instead of behind it. Major reason is for throttle response. If the turbo is behind the throttle plate, it is spinning in a low pressure area so will be up to speed when you stab it. Also the MAF will be seeing inlet air at normal temperatures (GM likes to calibrate for 100 F).

If you put the turbo in front of the throttle plate it will be pushing against a blocked passage normally so will have to spin up when you stab it (tubo lag) and you will also be heating the air in front of the MAF. Neither is good.

[Guest Buick Mike]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I plan to blow the turbo project through the MAF </div></div>

Usually you don't see that, but at least one person has seemed to make it work.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/mafrelocate.html

Mike

[padgett]

Was assuming that the MAF and the throttle plate would be colocated (least modification). My suggestion was to put the throttle plate in front of the turbo. Where you put the MAF is optional.

[Guest]

Thanks for the input. I saw the guy on the GN list that blew through the MAF, that's where I got the idea. The MAF and throttle body could be separated but they make such a nice set I would like to keep them together.Moving the MAF is relatively simple but the throttle body is another matter. My intention is a low boost application, about 1/2 bar or so, and outlet air from the turbo shouldn't be too high, 150-170 deg.F. I felt this should be within the tolerance level of the MAF but it is certainly possible it could pose problems. I may look at moving them as a set to the inlet of the compressor as the spinning in a partial vacuum does make some sense and I never thought of that. I need to look in the manual to see if the MAF can be tested. I took the sensor out and physically it looks fine. I may try substituting the sensor into the housing on the car as a further test. I wanted to do this anyway to see if the two different sensors yield similar readings. If I can get it to run with a divorced MAF, I will try sucking a shop vac. through it to see if it will work that way. Thanks guys.

[Guest]

Apparently there is nothing wrong with the MAF I was using. I can interchange them with no apparent change in the way the car runs, although, the spare does read slightly higher. I made three runs each with the two different MAF's and the max reading on the spare is 142-143 gr/sec where the one I had been using is 137-138. The spare indicates a slight difference at idle also although it is only a tenth or two. Outside air temp. was only about 40 and the roads are damp so a rolling start was required, and even then it would spin that tires a lot. Almost bald tires make the car feel faster, 'cause when you kick it down at about 30 mph, the car would actually move sideways as the grip went away. Getting too dangerous to drive with the cold rainy/snowy season upon us so it went to sleep for the winter. Still shopping for a tire wheel combo within the budget. One interesting thing, if you disconnect the MAF the car will start and drive, or you can disconnect it with the car running and not much changes. However, if the MAF is plugged in with car running, it will instantly die. Apparently the computer reacts better to the signal being lost than being restored. Sitll don't know why the divorced MAF won't work but I assume there is too much difference between the expected reading and what the computer actually sees.

[padgett]

MAF should work anywhere in the inlet path, just hopefully where the flow is not turbulent. The difficulty is that the main stream of air is passing through an open oriface while the MAF sensor is a separate cavity on the top and near the edge.

If the flow is not reasonably steady, an eddy or boundary layer may form at the sensor that is not present at the oriface resulting in a lower reading than actual.

The reason you can disconnect is that first the overriding control element is the O2 sensor transitions, the MAF is more to control transients before they are seen in the exhaust flow. Think of it as sort of an accellerator pump.

Next you can disconnect with nothing happening because the failure is noted and it reverts to backup control. May run well steady state but would expect a stumble if you suddenly open the throttle.

Is a heated wire reaction. A fixed current is passed through the wire and the change in resistance caused by the cooling effect of the intake stream is transformed into a frequency that the ECM uses to calculate gm/sec.

Second, this is used as a temporary change, not a fixed one. The engine stabilizes on O2 but uses the MAF to adjust for transients. This is why the inlet temperature does not matter too much as long as it is relatively steady.

However if you suddenly plug in a cold MAF, I suspect (never tried) the ECM sees a sudden change in airflow that is not there and "fixes things" resulting in either a massive stumble or dies completely. Suspect if you applied power for a few seconds then connected the data line, it would continue to run (sorta then smooth out).

Now all of this is pure SWAG and would require experimentation to verify. Can see that MAF would sense a change faster than MAP.

[Guest]

Thanks Padgett. It's really 2seater but my login won't work, and Peter can't seem to fix it either. I thought about revving the engine before plugging it in also but too late to do any more experimentation, the car went to sleep for the winter. Your analogies are pretty good and it does make it easier to understand. Most of my purpose for this test was to see what would happen if the air flow exceeded the tables in the ECM. The Grand National guys regularly go beyond the 255gm/sec their tables read and I imagine the O2 sensor does all the work at higher air flows.

[Dusty]

how did you time your pass? Also, running into the wind can make huge differences, as wind is not constant this can really fluctuate your times.