Locomobile Steam Gathering Place

[Locomobile]

Hi Al,

 

The Ofeldt I posted would work, or a firetube type of about 14" diameter and up would also work. My friend has an Ofeldt with only 12 coils vs 16 of mine and his performs well with the Mason Model C. My boiler was modeled after his with several changes.

 

-Ron

[alsfarms]

Hello Ron,

I wish I had 1/2 the information and experience that you have and I would be reasonably well learned on steam engineering.

Al 

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

It is a lot to know and I still don't know as much I need sometimes, I still have to ask around for advice and do research occasionally. But, I will share what I have figured out. I've been playing with steam for close to 50 years, my first boilers that I cobbled together now make me cringe to think about, how foolish I was and lucky I was to not be injured or killed. I won't elaborate to prevent anyone from trying those methods.

 

One issue I'm working through right now:

Just as Fred Marriot stated when when asked what was the most troublesome thing about a steam car he provided a one word answer "burner". I can attest to the accuracy of that answer. The only trouble I have is the fire. The burner operates, but I am having fuel issues. I burn kerosene and something has changed recently with it. I was doing some research and it appears that the EPA has mandated that all diesel fuel have a very low sulfur content or "Ultra low sulfur diesel" ULSD. From what I understand, they have gotten the sulfur content so low in No1 diesel at 400ppm, it is now being sold as Kerosene at most gas stations that sell it. When in fact it is not K1 kerosene and my burner doesn't like it. So, now it looks like I'm going to start getting JET-A /JP4 fuel from the airport which is highly refined kerosene K1. I could simply go to pump gasoline and avoid all this and I may do it. If it wasn't for the fuel issue I'm having, my car would be just about trouble free.

 

I was at a show on Sunday and someone had an original 1903 Oldsmobile and I watched it run around and thought to myself, man that is a lot easier to get along with. Then they shut it off and couldn't get it restarted., and then it sat for the rest of the day, I was talking with the owner and they have to run special high octane racing fuel in it to keep it going.  It is what it is, these early cars are problematic. What prompted the old song from that era :"He had to get under, get out and get under, to fix his little machine..."

 

 

-Ron

[alsfarms]

hmmmm, get out and get under.  That is a fun tune for sure.
Al

[alsfarms]

What is the funnest thing you have done in your Locomobile Steamer or simply being near a Locomobile Steamer?  Post here with any pictures you may have so we can all enjoy.

Al

[alsfarms]

Hello Ron,  It has been a while.  What is your take on the "Locomobile" engine that has just showed up on EBAY?

Al

[Ben Popadak]

Not Ron but he will be around shortly, Ron can smell steam.

 

The engine is a 1902/1903 engine built by Mason for Locomobile's competitors or could be used as a replacement engine for a Locomobile.  It is not a Locomobile.  Locomobile never had two pumps on the front of the engine, look for those two pump brackets.  Not my words, look it up in the book Locomobile Genealogy by Don Ball available through the Stanley Museum.  Mason started out building Locomobile's engines in 1899 and through about mid year 1900.  Then Locomobile themselves built their own engines and they had iron lower frames.  Masons have brass lower frames.  With the 1902/1903 Mason engines, the frames widen out on the sides after they leave where they bolt up to the cylinder castings.    A fair bit rich on the price if you ask me.  Pretty does not mean rebuilt.  

[alsfarms]

Hello Ben,

Thanks for the comment on the EBAY engine.  I hope it finds a good use in a project that will net another steam car put back on the road!  I wish I had the room and I would take a look at an early steamer project.  Ron did respond in a PM regarding this engine and thanks to him.

Al

[alsfarms]

Have any Locomobile Steamers been out on the road lately, more likely in the southern states or Calif.?  Any current big projects going on among this group of Locomobile enthusiasts?

Al

[alsfarms]

Has anyone had fire in the Locomobile steamer since winter has set in, maybe some of you southern folks?

Al

[alsfarms]

Has anyone had your Locomobile out for a drive lately.  Share a video or post a picture.  I am anxious to see what is up and running and where.

Al

[alsfarms]

Here is a picture of a Manufacturers dash tag that would certainly be a good addition to complete the dashboard on a restoration.

Al

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

Is that something you have? Or do you know who owns it?

 

Thanks, Ron

[Grier]

I'm looking for a connecting rod for the early (mason) Locomobile steam engine. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Grier

[alsfarms]

Hello Ron,

This tag, shown above, is one that is in my small collection of Locomobile stuff.  I am thinking of having a few duplicated for use on other Locomobiles.  Do you need one?

 

Hello Grier,

Which flavor Mason are you needing a rod for?  I am surprised at how many extra Mason engines are still waiting to be had. 

 

Al

[Grier]

Hello Al,

Its a Locomobile/Mason model 70 engine serial number 400's. Brass lower frame etc. I'm in the process of rebuilding/restoring the engine.

Grier

[Locomobile]

Hi Al,

 

Yes, I need two of those. They really need to be wax cast to get a good copy. Or better yet, I'd like to purchase the one you have. I will PM you about it.

 

Grier, Watch Ebay, those parts and engines show up on there quite often. The good news is those engines were very plentiful, and there are a lot of them around.

 

Thanks, Ron

[alsfarms]

Hello Ron,

Yes, I am looking in to getting the above tag replicated using the lost wax or investment casting process.  If any other Locomobile steam guys may need these tags to complete a project, this is your call to action, get in touch with me.

Al

[Grier]

Hey Al,

I’ll get one too!

Thanks,

Grier

[alsfarms]

Hello Grier,

Are you heading towards a Locomobile project or just the engine?  Tell us about your project.  I have you on the list for a brass tag.

Regards,

Alan

[Grier]

Here’s the project. Steam Traction World Series 2 Lykamobile. I purchased the Mason engine just for fun. Don’t know if I will install it. 

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

Thanks for that. Please let me know what other badges you have that I might be interested in as well.

 

Grier, That is a nice looking build you have going, nice job you're doing. Is Steam Traction world selling those again? I would definitely put the Mason engine in, it is a better machine than the Day-Land you currently have. I notice too, yours doesn't use the usual Derr type boiler. Is that something new they have, Personally I like the Firetube design, it is much more traditional. Is the burner an Ottoway style?

 

Here are some pics of a Mason 70 I currently restored. Good for another hundred years. I made a pattern and cast up a valve chest cover with the proper name on it. It is a copy of the original. I'll keep an ear out for out for a conrod for you.

 

I included a pic of my Locomobile too.

 

Thanks, Ron

[Grier]

Thanks Ron! Your Locomobile looks great and what a great job on your Model 70. That casting is fantastic. If you don’t mind what bearing did you use in the connecting rod. I could only come up with a 40 O.D. X 17 I.D. X 12 wide (mm) which will require sleeving the connecting rod to the smaller 40mm Diameter. I’m also looking into how to put roller bearings on the main crank shafts.  I have a few ideas, but if you found a bearing let me know too!  As far as the valve control connecting rods I’m thinking of just replacing the ball bearings. I think they are 0.25 inch diameters, my old ones measured 0.236 to 0.242 of the few I measured. 
 

I started looking into slim roller bearings, but they are prohibitively expensive. Also I didn’t want to forcibly separate the eccentric races from the sprocket housing. Looks like they should come apart, but I was hesitant to try for fear of damaging the parts. 
 

Finally, yes Steam Traction World has a series 2 Lykamobile. They went with a more Locomobile/Stanley tubed styled boiler. The burner I haven’t received yet, but should be shipped in a few weeks. 
 

My build experience is captured on my blog at www.210doghouse.blogspot.com 

Best Regards,

Grier

 

[alsfarms]

I will post another couple of pictures of two items that may be suitable for the steam Locomobiles.  The fist picture is of an entrance threshold, the second is of another solid brass serial number tag.  Let me know what you think...

Al

[Ben Popadak]

Hello Al,  

Would you have a Locomobile Newton Mass nameplate?

Ben

 

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

I would be interested in the other badge as well, not the footplate though. It's not really correct for my car, but it is definitely better than nothing. That is a reproduction, probably sold by Art Hart. Long story, he had all the badges and they went missing after he passed away. I think they used that particular plate from around serial numbers 200 to about 1750. As I understand it, the very first vehicles had no badges. Mine is serial number 3834. It was a smaller plate with the patent numbers cast in to it. The smaller badge you have which is much more prevalent, was located on all of their Currier and Cameron steamer bodies in all years, down low, front and rear. So, two per vehicle. The big square one goes under the leather apron and covers the screws where the throttle mounts.

 

Grier,

 

The only engines I've retrofitted sealed ball bearings in are the later steel frame Locomobile engines. The Mason engines, I have replaced the balls of nominal size, which seems to be sufficient. You say yours are measuring 242 etc, .250 should tighten everything back up and make a serviceable setup. Those rods should be numbered to orient the way they go on the eccentrics and crankshaft. I think the Conrods are .312" i.e. 5/16".  The eccentrics on the crank? I would leave those alone, those are typically pressed on and about impossible to remove without damage. I don't recall the bearing numbers I used for those, but it usually involves sleeving either the ID and the OD and some boring. I like to keep things original if I can and why I'm sort of moving away from that practice. The original setup is fine as long as it is in good shape and maintained. Yeah, those Krydon bearings are crazy expensive. Someone asked me once about using them for the four timing rods, I told him, the four bearings alone are $1080. He opted for the balls. On the engine in the car above it has the Locomobile engine with timing rods that are just steel to steel i.e. steel rod, steel eccentric. I used 330 bronze for the eccentrics and the original steel rods and it has been ran quite a bit, at least a few thousand miles and I've had no issue with it. Those engines, once repaired are pretty much trouble free, as long as they are kept oiled (hydrostatically) and the builder doesn't get too generous with the superheat.

 

-Ron

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Locomobile (see edit history)

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

What size is that footplate?

 

Thanks, Ron

[alsfarms]

Hello Ron,

The "step plate" is a dainty little thing.  I plan to have several copies made of that item also.  The measurements are 6-7/8" long and 15/16" wide.

Regards,

Alan

[alsfarms]

Hello Ben,

Sorry, I do not have a Mass serial tag to copy.....

Regards,

Al

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

I would be interest in a few of the footplates as well.

 

Thanks, Ron

[alsfarms]

Hello All,

I will proceed with the reproduction of the plates I have and also the footplate.  I will need confirmation shortly from anyone who needs and will commit to these projects shortly.  I will post here so everyone will know.

Regards,

Alan

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

Thanks for doing this. As long as they aren't too expensive, I will commit to two of the small ones, and one large badge and then one of the footplates.

 

Thanks, Ron

[Grier]

Al,

just to confirm I just want one of the “trade mark” badges. 
 

Ron,

I have a question concerning the Mason engine. Not knowing too much about the operation of this engine I am questioning the slop I see in the bronze guideways for the eccentric rods for the valves. The rod measures 0.495 diameter and the bores measure anywhere from .508 to .531 and of course oval. Should I figure out how to sleeve this?  I’m attaching a picture of the bores on the frame. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Grier (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Ron and Grier,

Thanks for the confirmation of the small parts you are interested in.  I will chat again when I get a firm cost, so you can confirm again before I pull the trigger and start the projects,

Regards,

Alan

[Locomobile]

Al,

 

   Thanks for the update and yes, please let me know.

 

Grier,

 

   It's a judgement call on that sort of thing. You can definitely get away with a lot more on a steam engine versus a gas engine. The valve guides that you're talking about and the dims you've posted are what I would consider excessive and needing repair. Five thousandths difference would be at the out side of acceptability. The good news is that is an easy fix. Carefully run a .531 ( 17/32", I would refrain from going 9/16" ) reamer through, then get a 1/2 ID x 5/8 OD Oil-lite Bronze bushing long enough (McMaster carr has them up to 3" long) and have it turned down to 531. Then heat the casting a bit then just press it in with a C-clamp, and you're back to .500 ID. Steam engines run better with loose tolerances. Tolerances that would destroy an I/C Engine in short order.  A little metal lathe is real handy working on these engines. Typically have to make most everything.

 

Be careful with the reamer, bronze is kinda snaky stuff to machine. I would run it through by hand.

 

That conrod you need, I would just take the one you have to a foundry that does nodular iron alloys and have them copy it. Then machine it to fit. They can copy it without a pattern.

 

-Ron

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Locomobile (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

What stress, is put on your life-style, brought on by the current Pandemic?  Are you both (and others) able to keep a low profile and simply stay out in the garage working on your stream projects?  Do you have any projects underway, that could be of mutual interest here and to other steam guys?  It may help us all keep it together if we have a daily goal to let others know what is going on.....

Al

[Grier]

Ok Al, 

Here’s something I came across yesterday working on my Mason Model 70 engine. I have never come across this before, but the fillister screws for the 4 valve timing connecting rods are an oddball size. I at first thought they were 1/4-28 threads, but chasing the threads with a dye started to really take too much material and luckily I stopped. So I take my thread measuring tool and try and determine the threads per inch. Nothing matches these threads, not even metric. The best I can come up with it is a tpi of 30 per a little measure with my calipers. I can find no standards, even archaic for this. It definitely is not 28 tpi or 32 tpi. As I said luckily I didn’t destroy the screw and they are reusable. 

[alsfarms]

Hello Grier,

This is the fun part of restoring an early automobile.  Some things simply were not yet standardized!

Al

[Harrison Searles]

 

 

GREETING ALL

 

I’M DOING RESEARCH ON MY GRANDFATHER, HERBERT N SEARLES AKA H N SEARLES.

IN 1898 HE WENT TO WORK FOR STANLEY STEAMERS, IN 1899 HE OPEN LOCOMOIBLE

LONDON OFFICE, 1903 HE WORK FOR AMERICAN LAFRANCE AS A STEAM ENGINEER,

WORKING ON TYPE 1, 1904 WHITE STEAM CARS, 1907 MANAGE AND DROVE WHITES FOR

PRES. TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND TAFT.  1909 DROVE A WHITE IN THE GLIDDEN TOUR WITH

WALTER WHITE. AFTER THAT WENT WORK FOR GILFORD TRUCK LIMA OHIO.

 

LOOK FOR ARTICLE, PHOTOS, ANYTHING RELEVANT.

 

THANK YOU

 

HARRISON SEARLES     

[alsfarms]

Hello Harrison,

Do you have any other bits and pieces of newspaper clippings or literature or direct correspondence?  None of us can enjoy our antique automobiles without a respect for history!

Regards,

Alan