1957 Buick Century split bench seat on ebay... this is a shame.

[Dominic_Martinelli]

If I had a farm to bet, I'd bet that the owner/butcher of the 57 is probably a good deal older than I am (22). He's probably my parent's age (around 50). It's not only my dumb-ass generation that is cutting these things up, but also the "boomers." I have knoticed a new trend in magazines like "Hot Rod" and that is to use non-Chevrolet, Ford, or Chrysler engines as well as to rod out other non-traditional rod fodder (i.e. 49-51 Mercurys, 30's Fords, Novas, Chevelles, Tri-5 Chevys, etc...) In their Sketchpads and Dream Drawings, I am starting to see renderings of 57 Caballeros, 60's Ramblers, Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles, Lincolns, DeSotos, Hudsons and so on. The lesson that needs to be taught is that complete, driveable, vertually perfect cars shoule stay that way. This 57 that is being butchered should be remembered as a prime example of what NOT TO DO to an otherwise desireable car.

The other lesson that needs to be taught is that old cars CAN BE and ARE acutally fun to drive. When you drive an original or restored old car, you are essentially stepping back in time. The experience is very different than driving a modern car. Some things require thought, planning, and patience; such as advancing the spark, double-clutching, or even letting out the clutch for that matter. Children, Teens, and YES, even Adults need to be shown that driving an old car is not like driving a new car, but it is still fun in its own way. The best way to show them this is to drive your car and invite them to come along. Show them that your 20's touring car can get across town and back with no problem. Show them that your 40's sedan rides as good or sometimes better down the highway than a new car. Make it known by driving that your finned 56 can do much more than keep up with traffic and won't overheat!

As a child I remember the people who had big old Packards from the 30's and Buicks from the 60's but would NEVER drive them. But what had a more lasting impact were the people who gave me a ride in the rumble seat of their 32 Ford V-8, the neighbor who would drop his brother and I off at school in his 67 Olds Cutlass and his 56 Chevrolet 210, my mom's friend who let me sit behind the wheel of his Edsel. Yes, I asked, but the were happy to oblige. The only way our hobby can be saved is to show others that while it may have been designed, engineered, and built a LOOOONG time ago, an old car can do a great job at MANY things, not the least of which is getting you anywhere you want to go and back in style, comfort, and with dependablity.

[Guest]

I hope your 53' isn't as nice as this 57'!

[Matt Harwood]

Well, I feel as though I'll probably be shooting myself in the foot for this and making a lot of enemies here, but it's my opinion (and only that) that Brad (and others like him) are getting a beating they don't deserve.

I recall when I was a kid and my father had a collection of old cars, we'd watch old movies together, and I was horrified to see neat old cars being smashed, burned and raced. But, as my father pointed out, at the time, they were merely used cars. Nobody knew at the time that they'd be anything special.

I think a great many people buy new cars today and modify them (I know I have hot-rod wheels and lowered springs on my 2002 Mazda Protege5). Will some collector in 30 years be outraged by my ignorance? I hope not, but I'm not going to preserve the car for him.

Modifying cars is a great part of our hobby. Some of us are purists, some aren't. I've been to both ends, and now I'm in the middle somewhere. I've built a few rods, worked for a professional rod shop, and raced my own cars. I just sold a 1997 Ford Ranger Splash pickup (one of only 560 built that year in Toreador Red) into which I swapped a supercharaged 5.0L EFI V8 (you can see it at my HPE site by clicking the logo on the Buick site). I did it with less than 1000 miles on the odometer. I also sold the truck for twice what I paid for it when I was done, and made enough to finance the restoration of my Buick.

My Buick will be a restoration. There won't be any large modifications, but I will probably have higher compression in the straight-8, ported heads and manifolds, and a reground cam. There will probably be an FM converter hidden somewhere inside, along with a pair of stereo speakers hidden under some upholstery. It will have WWW radials. It will have base coat/clear coat paint. It will have modern lubricants in it. Externally, it will be stock, and I'll use stock colors and interior materials. To an observer, nothing but the tires will look unoriginal. But it won't be "as the factory intended" either.

I guess that's my point: where do you draw the line? Do you still use single weight mineral oil in your transmissions, or ethylene-based coolant in your radiators? I bet none of you do. Do you have modern tires? Do you use vastly superior enamel paints instead of nitrocellulose lacquers that tend to shrink, crack and fall off? Of course you do. No car is perfect unless it's been lovingly kept by a fastidious owner, and even then, you question why. Ever seen a perfect AMC Pacer? I have, and I wonder why it's still perfect.

I have an interest in keeping IMPORTANT cars stock. My Century is one of 5500 built that year--it's rare and it's neat because of that. But I don't have a conniption when I see a '41 Special coupe (essentially the same body style as my Century) modified. Why? They built 106,000 of them. It's not an IMPORTANT or unique car. There are plenty to go around for everybody. I cry a little when I see '32 3-window coupes with chopped tops or other irreversible modifications, and I'm happy when I find out they are repros. But I don't hate the owner for doing it--it's his car.

I was at a show two weeks ago and someone drove up in a '32 Buick 90 7-passenger sedan that had been "modernized" with a 350 and automatic, modern A-arm suspension and power everything. But it sure was a nice job with great workmanship. It's still a beautiful car, and now it's one that the owner enjoys. I think that's important. It was the only pre-war car in attendance, by the way, and I'm so damned sick of seeing base model mid-50s to mid-60s 4-door sedans filling every parking lot at every show--what the heck happened to the great classics? These "newer" cars are not interesting to me, but they are the only cars that get driven any more. I certainly don't deride the owners for loving them, but it seems obvious to me that these aren't valued nearly as much as the classics that are locked up safe in a barn--after all, they're driven. So to each his own.

I'm just a little surprised at the wide dividing line between the purists and the modifiers. We're in the same hobby, and we love the same things. I love a flawless black paint job, whether it's on an SJ Duesenberg or a channelled '49 Mercury. The fine details of an engine compartment, whether chromed to the max or completely stock still make me stop and check everything out with a critical eye, and note the details that are particularly well done. We're all car guys, and can appreciate fine hardware. Brad certainly realizes that any car that has been loved by an owner is cool. Nobody's cutting up a valuable car in this case, so getting all up in arms about these modifications is not productive. Another car has been preserved, regardless of what happens to it in the future. We are merely caretakers of these cars, and a nice car will always find a new owner, modified or not. If you want an original, they're always going to be out there. And if you want to modify it, you shouldn't feel guilty about starting with quality base stock. Nobody's idea of a perfect car is better than anybody else's.

And last time I checked, there's no shortage of 50s cars of any caliber out there. I see wasted '59 Cadillacs for sale all the time, and I'll bet there are fewer of those than most Buicks of the same vintage. As someone else said, at least they aren't being scrapped, and the parts are available to the purists who want them. Where's the down side?

My wife said something wise when I agonized over selling FrankenRanger: It won't be any less amazing if somebody else owns it.

I'm way too verbose. Sorry.

[Guest Skyking]

Matt, I think your missing the point here. I am saddened in what's happen to this 57. The guy isn't adding radial tires, clear coat paint, FM radios & Cd players, all of which I have in my cars. He's cutting up a low mileage perfect car that could never be original anymore. I keep going back to the photos on E-Bay and look at this car. All the door jams are perfect. All the dash is perfect. The interior is perfect.........IT WAS A DAMM PERFECT CAR!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

I had a whole long response written, then realized I don't have to prove my involvement in the old car hobby to you, list my professional credentials, justify why I think original '50s and older cars are impractical for daily use, prove my appreciation for original cars, or why I think people should be allowed to build their cars the way they want. But I decided not to bother.

I'm going to continue doing what I do, and just not let the name callers, the arrogant, the self-rightous and the self-important bug me. My attitude and actions aren't hurting the hobby--name calling, picking on people, creating division, being judgmental and otherwise making it unenjoyable for others is.

-Brad

[Guest Skyking]

Then I guess we're all wasting are time!

[Dave@Moon]

....and some of us are wasting our money.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My attitude and actions aren't hurting the hobby--name calling, picking on people, creating division, being judgmental and otherwise making it unenjoyable for others is.

-Brad

</div></div>

Well, two out of five isn't bad for a start. We'll keep trying.

Let's see. The name....it is <span style="font-style: italic">Brad</span> isn't it?

Let's see, on a forum that exists for the purpose of expressing opinions, on a thread expressly decrying exactly what he's doing, in a hobby that is largely based on judging cars; Brad finds it upsetting that people are being judgmental with regards to his project. Gee, what a shock!

As for "picking on people" and "making it unenjoyable", this is a <span style="font-style: italic">discussion.</span> Offer yourself up as a subject for discussion at your own peril, here or anywhere else. We're not your Mom!

By the way, did I mention recently that one of the two projects I'm currently involved in is an Olds Cutlass based street rod? Only I won't be wasting any historically significant or valuable pieces to do it. Some divisions matter.

I gotta tell ya' it's a [censored] being so arrogant!