Canadian Paint Codes/ Paint Chips

[CanadianDodgeTrucks]

Hello everybody,

First post here, I have expanded out from another forum to try to get a concrete answer. Any help is appreciated. 

We have a 1956 Dodge truck, 3 1/2 ton, with an original 331 Hemi and 5 Speed Clark 265V transmission and 2 speed rear. It is an original Ontario, Canada farm truck, built in Windsor, Ontario. There were some subtle differences in build between the Canadian and American vehicles, trucks included, of which I am not entirely certain on. It wasn't until sometime in the mid 60's they shared all of the same engines for example, I know paint differed on our Canadian built 1940 Dodge D15 as well.

 

If I buy an American paint chip chart for the truck, will the colours be the same as the Canadian colours? Does anyone know when Chrysler USA and Chrysler Canada started to share the same paint colours/ codes?

 

Thanks,

Dean

Attached is a picture of the truck also. We believe the two- tone colours are Pontchartrain Green and Banner Green.

[30DodgePanel]

I would imagine that each manufacturer had the same formulas and mix for each color regardless if made in US or Canada if it was the same exact product line.

 

Here's a 56 Ditzler ad that shows three locations, notice one location is in Canada.

 

 

[CanadianDodgeTrucks]

That's the real question, even if the names are the same, are the formulas? I would imagine that they would be. I have read that up until '66 Chrysler Canada had shared some colours with USA, afterwards they shared all colours. I don't know if this holds true for the trucks.

 

This is a quote from the forum on forwardlook.net. I have been looking around in every imaginable forum, and the Expert on the subject it seems is Bill Watson, I will contact him next. In this context, he is talking about Canadian vs. American paint

"So if you are looking to see which colours are the same, do not compare company paint codes or paint colour names. Compare the paint company codes as they will be the same for all uses of that particular shade. 

Now you might be asking why DuPont Canada and DuPont (USA) codes are not the same. And where did C.I.L. come from. C.I.L. (Canadian Industries Limited) was formed in 1926 with the merger of a number of Canadian munitions and chemical companies. The major firms behind the merger and the two major shareholders in the final company were E.I. DuPont of New Jersey and Imperial Chemical Industries (I.C.I.) of Great Britain. C.I.L. thus gained the right to market DuPont paints in Canada and when C.I.L. began manufacturing auto paints in 1936 they used DuPont's code system with Canada-only paints all having four digits after the prefix. 

In the early 1950's DuPont and General Motors came under scrutiny for antitrust violations. In the end GM had to, eventually, share all its bus patents and designs with other U.S. bus manufacturers, sell off its interest in Hertz and dispose of Euclid. DuPont, on its part, had to sell off its 30% interest in GM (DuPont was GM's largest shareholder)and had to dissolve its joint ventures with I.C.I. of which they had many all over the globe. 

Thus in 1954 DuPont Canada Ltd. was formed, taking a number of C.I.L. plants and using the DuPont name for paints in Canada. Both DuPont Canada and C.I.L. adopted their own unique paint codes, which DuPont Canada used until switching to DuPont (USA) codes in 1971. C.I.L. auto paint carried on until I.C.I. sold all their auto paint businesses to PPG (Ditzler). 

Other paint companies in the auto paint business at that time were Rinshed-Mason (taken over by BASF), Sherwin-Williams, Martin-Senour, and Acme. And all their codes have nothing in common with any of the other companies." 
 

So it's a very confusing topic to say the least.

 

Dean

[30DodgePanel]

Like anything else, it's all about the proper documentation that validates everything.

I'll keep my eye for the correct literature, as I'm sure most gents that come across this will also do. Interesting topic I've never given any thought to. Good stuff.

[CanadianDodgeTrucks]

That would be appreciated. 

I believe Dupont Canada and Ditzler (PPG) were the two biggest paint manufacturers of the time for Canada and carried nearly all paints for any of the big car manufacturers. They are probably the best bet for cross reference, ie the most likely to find things from them, but you never know. 

 

 

Dean

[Chrycoman]

DuPont no longer handles auto paints.  Forget who they sold the business to.

 

DuPont Canada and C.I.L. were the main players in Canada back in the 1950's and 1960's.   As I stated in the quoted article regarding paints, C.I.L.'s auto paint business was sold to Ditzler in the 1990's.

 

I have a copy of the 1956 CPI-Ditzler chip chart, and although the sheet shows 1955 Spring Colours as well as 1955 Truck Colours, Canadian-built Chryco trucks used the same colours as in 1955 -

 

5600 - Cuban Red - DQE-7000

5601 - Dominion Blue - DQE-1000

5602 - Ponchartrain Blue - DQE-41256

5603 - Canyon Coral - DQE-70378

5604 - Banner Green - DQE-41480

5605 - Neutral Gray - DQE-31132

 

You will notice the five colours on the chart have five digit Ditzler codes meaning they are US Chrysler colours.   So you should have some luck coming up with what you want.  CPI is no longer on Central Avenue in Windsor so your best bet would be a good autobody paint shop.   The two four digit Ditzler codes are for Canada-only colours.   Ditzler codes are easy to determine whether the colour is Canada only or a US colour.  Prior to the DuPont/ICI split C.I.L. used DuPont paint codes and were assigned blocks of numbers to use. 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Chrycoman
spelling errors (see edit history)

[Chrycoman]

One thing about auto colours.   Never assume colours that have the same names have the same formulas.  99 times out of 100 they don't.   Always use the paint company's code to search for the same colour.   If you are looking for another company that had a colour like Canyon Coral on the 1956 sheet, for example, search on the Ditzler number - 70378.  Or whatever paint company you prefer.  That will bring up all uses of that shade as well as the associated colour names and makes using that shade..

 

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[CanadianDodgeTrucks]

Bill, 

This is great, thank you very much. Very informative. Do you have any other Canadian paint chip charts for 54-60 Dodge or Fargo trucks? The other day I purchased some original Canadian paint chip booklets for Dodge trucks;1957, 1959 and 1960. It's great to see what was available those years but is not incredibly helpful when looking to actually repaint your truck, if you are interested in factory exact colour matching. What is neat is that the 1960 booklet is clear that the colours shown within it were for domestic models, as the 4x4 and Heavy duty models were still imported from the States (and I assume came with a distinct but likely similar colour palette).

 

Thanks,

Dean

[Chrycoman]

For paint chips :

Sherwin-Williams - (Includes trucks except for 1937 and 1951) - 1937, 1940, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951 (Spring colours), 1954, 1955

Canadian Industries Limited  (C-I-L) - DuPont Numbering - 1941 (inc trucks), 1946, 1947, 1951

Canadian Industries Limited  (C-I-L) - From DuPont/ICI split - Cars : 1955-1966;  Trucks : 1959-1966

DuPont Canada - Cars : 1955-1962;  1965; Trucks: 1959-1960; 1965

CPI (Ditzler) - Cars : 1956-1966, plus Spring 1955;  Trucks - 1955-1959, 1961-1966

Rinshed-Mason - Cars, no Trucks - 1958, 1963, 1964

 

For colour lists, no paint chips -

Sherwin-Williams / Canada Paint - (Includes trucks from 1936) 1934-1942, 1946-1955

Canadian Industries Limited (C-I-L) - DuPont Numbering  - (Trucks in 1941) - 1937-1948

Canadian Industries Limited  (C-I-L) - From DuPont/ICI split - (Includes Trucks) 1949 to 1966

DuPont Canada - Cars and Trucks : 1949-1966

CPI (Ditzler) -  Cars : 1950-1966; Trucks :1953-1966

Rinshed-Mason - Cars and Trucks : 1954-1964

 

GM of Canada. Ford of Canada and Chrysler of Canada all had unique colours for Canadian production over the years as well as some US colours.  Chrysler of Canada even used some US GM colours just before WW II.

 

All imported cars, and trucks, by the big three were available in US colours only.  All options and equipment on imported models were the same as in the U.S.   And yes, there were imported Fargo Trucks as the US truck plant built Fargo and DeSoto trucks for foreign markets. The same holds for the 1935-1959 "Plodges" - they were built in the US for foreign markets, which included Hawaii before it became a state.  Ford of Canada also imported some Mercury Trucks, but they were Ford Trucks with Mercury namplates. 

 

Canadian Dodge and Fargo Truck colours were the same from  1941 to 1950 and 1951 to 1953.  1954 and 1st series 1955 used the same colours  (codes 53xx).  2nd series 1955 colours were the same as 1956 (codes 56xx).  New colours were used for 1957 and revised for 1958, 1959 and 1960.   

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Desotodav]

Hi all,

This is my first post here. I have come across from the P15-D24 forum. I have been searching for information on paint codes and my search has today found me perusing these forum pages.

I am trying to find if there is any correlation between paint codes from Canada and Australia. I have a growing number of Dodge and Desoto trucks here in Oz.

The paint data plate for my (restored) 52 Desoto 1/2 ton truck indicates DC51U-3261 and I believe that the paint is 'Waterway blue'. I have found paint chips indicating numbers 80-305 (syn.) and 93-55093. Is it possible that someone here might be able to decipher my paint code?... or shed some light on the numbers/letters stamped therein?

[Chrycoman]

That "DC51U-3261" is more likely to be the body tag, giving the model number, body style and sequential number.  As with Chrysler Corp cars, bodies for the trucks would have been built in Australia. Thus the body tag,  

 

From what I have been able to determine, there is little in common between Canadian and Australian bodies as Australian bodies had higher unique local content than Canada.   Canadian-built Chrysler vehicles had fewer differences than the U.S. versions with most of the differences being ways to reduce the costs of tooling and producing parts - castings instead of stampings, for example.  

 

As for paints, Chrysler of Canada dealt with Canadian suppliers, most of whom were subsidiaries of US firms.   Prior to the mid-1950's most of the colours Chrysler of Canada used were unique Canadian shades along with some US Chrysler and, before WW II, even some GM shades.   The largest supplier in Canada before 1954 was Canadian Industries Limited, a firm created when ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries) of the UK and DuPont of New Jersey, USA,  joined their Canadian subsidiaries into one firm.  Apparently they did that in a number of countries around the world and the American Anti-Trust people in the early 1950's declared the two firms were controlling their markets and thus impeding competition.   Thus CIL in Canada was split, with DuPont taking back their companies. and a chunk of the newer plants, forming DuPont of Canada, Limited.

 A new Canadian Industries (1954) Limited was formed and all of the ICI subsidiaries, etc., were rolled over to CIL (1954). 

 

The 93-55093 (Waterway Blue - and "93" is for enamel) is a DuPont paint code, and was used by Dodge Truck in the U.S. in 1948-49.  It was never used in Canada.  CIL used DuPont paints and codes from the beginning of CIL.  In 1936 CIL began making auto paints in Canada, using the CIL brand name, and continued to use Dulux and Duco labels.   In 1954, though, CIL adopted new paint codes, as did DuPont Canada.  DuPont Canada did not start using the US paint codes until 1969-70.  

 

Did DuPont exist in Australia or was it part of another firm, as in Canada?  Would like to know what company used the 93-55093 paint code.

 

Waterway Blue was also made by Ditzler (code DQE-10450) and Sherwin-Williams (code 43689).

 

[CanadianDodgeTrucks]

Wow, Bill again, a great help. Interesting, but logical I suppose, that they would keep the paint the exact same for several years at a time.

There is one parts book I have, I can't remember the year off the top of my head, and a brochure info sheet from 1957 that tell exactly which models were domestic and which were imported. Generally it seems only medium and light duty 2wd trucks were domestically built in Canada. Much less than I thought. All else including school busses, forward control chassis, 4x4, heavy duty and cabovers were U.S. built, including the engines (as domestically built Canadian models had different engine displacements as well).  

Are the paint numbers in your book? It would be great to get those all together in one place for the trucks.

 

Thanks,

Dean

[CanadianDodgeTrucks]

Welcome from Canada!

I love that grille-surround trim that was available on the Desotos- you could never get it over here to my knowledge. It's nice to see someone else restoring these trucks to stock. Beautiful looking truck(s) you have.

What little I know of the out-of-North America Chrysler trucks is their styling had mixed cues from our 'B- Series' trucks and 'C- Series' trucks. I am not sure if they were built in USA and exported, or built overseas, I have read before that any that were exported from USA tended to face heavy import fees, and buyers tended to buy trucks without cabs to help cut down on these import fees, and they ended up with cabs built overseas. Not sure if that is myth or not. If they were not built in the USA I would assume the paints are different, but Bill could tell you better than I.

 

 

Dean