Do U Want a 2004 4-4-2?

[NTX5467]

This has been a great discussion!

As I discovered, the "Anonymous" titles for previously registered forum members could have been due to the changeover of the formats. Peter G. has replied in the BCA forum that it is related to your computer and "cookies", but I noticed that in the BCA forum that after a few posts I am again automatically logged in and the username operates as before.

The N-cars were never marketed as a vehicle with performance aspirations. When we got the first new Malibu brochures, there was no performance option or any allusions to performance, just competent family transportation at a good value. Similar with Alero, but more upscale. The Grand Am does have its "Ram Air" option and stuff, but that's all--but then Pontiac was supposed to be the performance car line back then. I suspect that if a higher performance variant of Alero had been out perviously (with more engine and chassis upgrades) we might not be having such a tough time dealing with suddenly putting a performance "spin" to the Alero nameplate--even though it is very good as is.

We are also more accustomed to seeing collector editions of the higher carline models instead of the lower ones and that might be a factor here too. Nevertheless, the Alero is a very fine car that tends to fix all of the shortcomings of the Malibu and Grand Am that are the survivors in this case.

I suspect that most people who might consider Olds now are more concerned about resale value than anything else and that could be the main reason sales are down. It's a shame that it took this whole shutdown situation to get the public AND press to realize how great Oldsmobiles currently are, as many have lamented. But then GM marketing in the prior times might not have been the best it could have been (some saw it that way back then and others have seen it in retrospect).

I do wish all of the remaining single point Olds dealers and their staffs the best of luck in the future as they transition into other activities!

As a point of interest, will the OCA now become one of the largest "orphan car" groups in the nation? Just curious.

Have a great week and keep the Olds banners flying proudly!

NTX5467

[Guest]

Regardless of what it's called, sure I want a new 4-4-2. It doesn't really HAVE to outrun "brand X" (...although that would be nice...), but it should have a throaty exhaust note and be domestically produced, colorful, flashy and quick, sure footed and affordable, strong, comfortable and reliable. Oh, and it really shouldn't be a farewell model, either.

I'll go further by saying there should also be new Cutlasses with their wide array of options and characteristics; and in the showrooms they should be alongside modern-day entry level Oldsmobiles; cheap but stylish cars like the early F-85s or late '70s Starfires; and they should all be in the shadow of big, roomy and/or elegant cars that satisfy those who feel they've earned and are entitled to their comfort and relative safety. If this came to pass, Olds would no doubt thrive again.

Nice notions, but really, what could possibly save Olds now? The executives' huge egos are now involved, and while they've never offered defensible long term reasons for eliminating Oldsmobile, their mandates must now be defended in order to save face. (After all, changing one's mind is a sign of weakness, right?) Even if every American bought a new Olds every day for the rest of the year, I bet Wagoner and company would still do everything in their power to close Oldsmobile's doors. On the other hand, these mugs do work for somebody, don't they? Wouldn't it be nice to see the stockholders throw them out? (As fun as it is to imagine, I'm afraid we won't soon be seeing Wagoner walking to the bus stop carrying the former contents of his desk in a cardboard box.)

Combined with the dishearteningly quick surrender of Olds fans, the sheepishness of investors makes it easy for these myopic execs to get away with this foolishness. (If carried out) I believe the elimination of Oldsmobile, with the resultant loss of heritage, customer base and income potential, will go down in history as one of American business' greatest, most needless blunders.

Don Rankin III, OCA #7220

Ravenna, Ohio

[Guest]

Don, once again I did not login but this is Oldscarnut. The fact is that we are definitely going away. That deal is signed, sealed and will be delivered in the future but defintely by the 2004 model year. Hopefully, it will not happen sooner but we (dealers) have been legally notified that they will give us 12 months notice. Some are expecting it rather soon.

Olds fans could not have stopped this nor could any uprising of the stockholders. Once Wagoner and board approved this deal it was fait accompli. Was it the right decision, most of us think NO! Did Wagoner accomplish all his goals in eliminating us...No! Are there people within GM that still think it was the wrong decision...Yes! However, tru Olds fans can only hope that someday GM re-invents Oldsmobile and brings the nameplate back. However, in the near future it can not happen for a variety of legal reasons....a shame....Thanks for caring and being a Olds fan.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Don I replied to your post ahwile ago but obviously it ended in cyberspace heaven or the "other" place!

I just thought I should make it clear that nothing really could save Oldsmobile becuase of the legal situation it would bring our now between the dealers and GM. Too much as happened and it is a shame. The fact is, Wagoner has only achieved one of his goals in the terminating of Olds, and that was to free up capital for other GM Divisions. Wall Street certainly did not look upon his actions to the extent he expected and of course we know where the stock is today. As Lutz has stated, "there was another way to go about things that would not have resulted in GM's cancelling Olds." (paraphrased)

I am not sure how many Oldsmobiles fans and customers really surrendered but as a dealer and long time club member I think many of them had no choice. Nothing was going to change GM's mind once the decision was made and now we are left to pick up the pieces. The ONLY scenario that can give us hope for the future is one where GM comes back with the Olds nameplate somwehre after all the litigation is settled with a dealer organization that makes sense and is focused on the "right" products. Stanger things have happened and I sure hope it happens in my lifetime.

In the meantime all we can do is continue to be loyal to the marquee and help the clubs the grow stronger. Someday son a business case needs to be built to insure the future of the club ala the idea Rock proposed at the meet in Lansing...