Why are pontiacs not classics?

[Guest]

I'm wondering why pontiacs are not classics. I own a 1941 Pontiac Silverstreak. It is a very nice car, that you don't see very often, and i'm wondering why it won't be considered a classic car.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

The short story is your Pontiac, although a fine car, is not an unusual car. It was a standard production model. Cars recognized by CCCA as Full Classics were very low production, often hand built vehicles. They were quite expensive when new and were not generally intended for mass acceptance. <P>Pontiac, on the other hand, was out to sell as many cars as they could. They were (and still are), a fine mid-priced car that enjoys a lot of popularity.<P>There is certainly nothing wrong with owning one of these cars. They can be a lot of fun. There is a car club for every taste. Please enjoy your car and remember to have fun with it. This is, after all, a hobby... It's supposed to be fun.

[cmj]

How do you explain Buick 31 o 42 as classic. Originaly the cars considered were what the founders drove. Some cars listed no one had ever seen such as the Jordan Speedway. It has also been made so difficult to get a car considered that it is hard to find anyoe that wants to go to the trouble to get a car classified that should be such as the Jordan model G series. (Greatline 90) even though a model G was included in the roster list (owner Al Rodway) misnamed a Speedway Playboy 8<BR>Fred<BR>very rare,limited production 1932 Jordan Model 90 Playboy

[Guest]

If to be a classic, it has to have low production numbers, or does it have to have low numbers of them still around. Because the model of Pontiac i own, a) i cannot find in anybook or anysite i've come across, and believe me, i've looked; and b)i've yet to see another pontiac silverstreak that remotely compares to mine as far as all the features are concerned. There are classic pontiacs, chevys, and fords which they did not make many of. I know my pontiac was limited in it's year of production because in late 1941, the year of my car's creation, pontiac switched from cars to rockets. I think in like September or so, pontiac switched.

[Guest]

This is an interesting topic, with which I am intimately involved as the Chairman of the Classification Committee. I hope I don't make this so long and complicated that no one reads it, but here goes. The Mission Statement of the CCCA describes a Full Classic thusly: "fine or unusual foreign or domestic motor cars built between and including the years 1925 and 1948, and distuinguished for their respective fine design, high engineering standards and superior workmanship." That is the basis for the consideration of any car for Full Classic status. The Classification Guidelines as published in the CCCA Handbook note that "in addition to the aesthetic values whihc are part of any Full Classic's appeal, the Classification Committee, with the approval of the National Board of Directors, has tried to base its decisions on such concrete factors as : F.O.B. prices, production figures, Classic components such as Bijur lubricating systems, power equipment, engine displacement and other considerations."<BR>In direct consideration of your '41 Pontiac, a car which I think is one of the best looking Pontiacs built in its time period, Pontiac built a total of 330,061 cars of all models in this year. There were about 6 different models, sixes and eights, the most expensive, the 8 cylinder Custom Torpedo Deluxe Station wagon had a base price of $1,250. By contrast, the least expensive 1941 Buick Limited, to address CMJ's note, was $2,155, some $900 more. That would be enough extra after one purchased the Pontiac wagon to also buy a Deluxe Eight 2 door sedan and still have $6 left for dinner. Granted, price is just one factor, but it does illustrate the market to which certain cars were marketed. <BR>T specifically address some of the items noted by CMJ, please remember that only the Big series (Limited and 90 series) Buicks are Full Classics. The Specials, Century's, Super's and Roadmasters fall somewhat closer to the Pontiac and are not considered Full Classics. I would also note that while the CCCA will be 50 years old in 2002, the Buick series recognition as Full Classics was not approved until the mid-seventies, over twenty years later. As Chairman of the Classification Committee I would dare say it is not at all difficult to apply for series recognition or individual Custom Body consideration. Our Committee is one of the most active on the National Board and is also one of the few with members from outside the Board. By the way, the Speedway Model Z does exist, under wraps for many years and not publicized, but it does exist. I would not disagree that the Jordan Model 90 along with its immediate predecessor Model 8G are very interesting cars. Personally I would like to see this model presented to the Classification Committee, but the application should ideally come from outside the Committee and one does need to be a CCCA members to present such an application. The bottom line is this: While Full Classics are very interesting and desireable cars, there are many more interesting and desireable cars that are not Full Classics. I hope I have answered a few of your questions.

[JWRider]

While it is true a factory bodied Pontiac would not be classified a Full Classic. Not all Pontiacs were Factory Bodied. Several Pontiac Chassis were were shipped to England where they received Beautiful Custom Bodies by Renowned English Coach Buiders during the thirties. If you could find, import and restore one of these rare English cars you could apply for cosideration for CCCA membership.Gentleman I call tour attention to Beverly Kimes first Classic Car Book as it contains 1936 Oldsmobile with a Rumble Seat Coupe Body by Redfern Coachworks.Need I point out the Fords With Brewster and Cunningham Bodies that have long been reconized as Full Classic.A 1939 Shark Nose Graham is no Classsic, But one with a Town Car Body Sauotchik is another matter.Some Full Classic owe their status to their Chassis,Some to their Coachwork. and some to Both.

[alsancle]

Every few months this topic comes up again. I think the previous posters did a pretty good job of explaining why some cars are allowed into the CCCA and some are not. My only issue is that the club should have stuck with 42 as a hard date. Some of the cars in the 40-48 time frame are wonderful vehicles which I would love to own myself. However, I find it hard to reconcile their high production numbers with the spirit of the club.

[RShepherd]

I'm a long-time Cadillac and La Salle Club member and a big fan of the marque and particularly those of the 1940's, but if the criteria for qualifying as a Full Classic is "very low production, often hand built vehicles that were quite expensive when new and not generally intended for mass acceptance", the 1938-1940 Series 90 Sixteens definitely qualify, but how do you justify the inclusion of 1941-1947 Series 62 Cadillacs? And why aren't Series 61's of the same years included since they are basically the same cars (and a 61D will be better trimmed than a non-deluxe 62)?

[Guest]

Many thanks to learned members of the CCCA for their patience in re-itterating over and over about what a "Classic" car is. One thing that Anonymous needs to learn though is that there is not now and never has been a Pontiac "Silverstreak". General Motors does not refer to a model "Silverstreak " in any of it's Shop or Parts manuals. The media coined the word silverstreak and salesmen picked up on it when Pontiac introduced the chrome strips on the hood that waterfalled down over the grill. Some years there were (I have been told but have never seen) nameplates as trim pieces that said silverstreak. If this is so this is a piece of trim not a model number or designation. I have owned over 25 Pontiacs, have a library of shop and operators manuals and parts books covering every model from the series 6-27 to series 74K (1926-1974) and have a photo collection of over 4500. I am only missing three photos to have a picture of every model of Pontiac built in Canada and the US from 1926 to 2005.

[mrpushbutton]

The late, great Strother MacMinn told me about Frank Hershey's (whom I also knew) fascination with the then-new clay extrusion machine GM styling had just bought. One of the dies for the extrusions was a ribbed sort of thing and Hershey took the extruded piece out of the machine and laid it on the Pontiac clay model and Poof! that was it! the chrome strip for the Pontiacs was born, and there was no talking Hershey out of it.

[Guest 120Don]

Hello Reid,

You've helped me in the past with my former '31 Pontiac and now reading through the posts here, and seeing your extensive knowledge of Pontiacs, I'd like to ask another question. My '34 Pontiac engine is being rebuilt this summer and I would like to know if you have any pictures showing the correct color combinations for the engine. Originally, before the block was cleaned, the basic color was a drab, army green, which is also on a spare '34 engine I have sitting in the garage. That color, I think, I can have duplicated, but also would like to know how they might have painted the manifold (gloss black?). I've searched extensively online to find pictures of my engine with no luck. If you do have anything that shows the colors, please let me know. Thanks, Don Kline, Phoenix, AZ. kdonald940@cox.net

[JWRider]

Well lets get something sraight as opposed to Straight Eight. The Silver Streak was a styling feature not a model designnation.It was introduced in 1935 by Walter Knudsen to help distiguish the Pontiac from the Cheverolet.It was a Single Streak that ran from Top the Grille to the Cowl and down the Middle of the trunk in the Straight Eight Era. In 1955-56 in the V-8 era Two streaks on the Right and the Left of the hood and over the Tail Fins in the Back. In 1957 Selmon "Bunkie Knudson,Walter's Son, removed the. He Said" My Dad put them on,I can take them off."He Felt the Silver Streaks Association with Stodgy old Sraight Eight Engine had nothing to do with new Performance Pontiacs he was planning.P.S.A 1926-48 Pontiac with Custom Foreign Coachwork could apply for membership on Special Application.The Truth is out there and it's not going away because you don't like it.