Need to buy Clutch Disc

[Franklinguy]

I need a clutch disc for my 10-B Franklin. I need the earlier Borg and Beck disc with the rigid center. The Franklin parts book indicates that the later disc with the flexible center takes a different flywheel.

Frank Pennypacker

[scott12180]

I need a clutch disc for my 10-B Franklin. I need the earlier Borg and Beck disc with the rigid center. The Franklin parts book indicates that the later disc with the flexible center takes a different flywheel.

Frank Pennypacker

Are you sure? If you need it for a 10-B, the rigid clutch disk was long since abandoned and that's one of the reasons why they called the improved car 10-B. And I find it very hard to believe that Franklin would use an entirely different flywheel because they had to retrofit a great many 10-A cars with the flexible disk. Just because the flywheel may be different for some subtle reason, doesn't mean the clutch housing is also different.

You will be hard pressed to find a rigid disk anyway unless the one used in a Series 9B happens to fit. Besides, you probably don't want to run the car on a rigid disk due to the transmission noise. (Although I'd like to hear just how bad it is).

Best advice is to find a flexible disk first, then see if it will fit into the flywheel housing of your car. That will be the easiest way to go. If it doesn't fit, then I learned something new.

--Scott Dwyer

[Franklinguy]

Scott, your advice is appreciated.

Here is what I know: The serial number of the car (137053-1) puts it in 1923 10-B. The engine number (E85851) is in the right range for 1923. The disc that was in the car is rigid type. I cannot be sure that the clutch was not changed at some time in the past.

The Franklin parts book lists 2 flywheels (see page 716- 26051 is for B&B rigid disc and M&E clutches, 30502 is for the B&B flexible disc clutch. There is a note with 30502, "Flywheel to crankshaft cap screw holes countersunk." The flywheel in my car does not have countersunk holes.

On page 717 of the parts book, there is a list of parts needed to convert from the rigid disc to the flexible disc. The list includes the clutch disc, flywheel to crank cap screws, nuts, and crankshaft rear oil retainer. It also says the holes in the flywheel must be countersunk using a special tool. The conversion seems like a big job! Maybe I should be hunting for a M&E complete clutch.

The transmission did not make any unusual noise until recently when it became very noisy, due to a bad bearing. Shifting was erratic, but the clutch brake was in pretty bad shape. Tom Rasmussen is currently rebuilding the transmission.

[odat]

If Tom has the transmission than you have the answer! If it is a 10 and Tom is working on it he can guide you in the correct direction.

[odyssey]

Frank's clutch disc spline is bad. We were lucky to find a new input shaft as the spline was bad on it as well. We can make a new splined center or go with a later disc, but that requires flywheel modifications. Finding a disc with a good spline would be nice...

Tom

[Franklinguy]

Tom, thanks for the clarification.

One option is to send Tom my clutch disc to get a new splined center and then send it to Paul Fitz for a new friction lining. It should be as good as new.

I think another option is to get an entire Merchant and Evans clutch. My understanding from the Franklin Series 10 parts book is that the M&E clutch works with the same flywheel as the rigid disc Borg and Beck clutch (the flywheel on my car). It also seems from the parts book that Franklin switched to M&E clutches in the late Series 10 cars.

Frank

[odyssey]

Or do the flywheel mods and go with the later disc.

i like the Borg & Beck clutch over the M & E clutch. Personal preference.

Options, options.

Tom

[scott12180]

Or do the flywheel mods and go with the later disc.

i like the Borg & Beck clutch over the M & E clutch. Personal preference.

Options, options.

Tom

I was not aware of the flywheel differences. Thanks for the clarification.

One thing to know about the two clutches, the Borg and Beck is a very smooth acting clutch. The Merchants and Evans tends to be grabby. The Service Bulletins of the day warned about this and instructed owners to simply "get used to it". I recall driving Frank Gardner's 10-C with a M&E clutch and indeed, the thing really was tough to get used to.

The other thing about Merchants and Evans is that the risk of breaking a rear axle might be higher with that clutch because of its tendency to grab.

My 10-B, which is a late 10-B, has a Borg and Beck clutch with countersunk holes in the flywheel. . . . for what it's worth. I've seen no suggestion as to why Franklin switched to the M&E. Might have been a business decision rather than an engineering decision. I think by the Series 11 they were using the Long clutch.

--Scott Dwyer

--Scott

[Franklinguy]

Scott, Thanks for the information about the M&E clutch being grabby. Paul Fitz pointed out that to convert to an M&E clutch, everything but the flywheel would have to be replaced and it would be hard to get all the parts. I have decided not to go with the M&E clutch.

Converting to the flexible disc B&B requires a flywheel modification and a different crankshaft rear oil retainer.

I have decided to get Tom Rasmussen to install a new center to fix the worn splines on my old disc. I would also get Paul Fitz to install a new lining. That way I will be able to just put everything back together with the like new disc. I believe it will work just fine.

I have thought about the fact that Franklin switched from the rigid disc to a flexible disc and retrofitted a lot of cars. The only thing I can say is that I drove that car for about a year and a half and I did not notice any excessive noise or vibration and none that I could attribute to the solid disc clutch.

Frank