Guest kananesgi Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 New guy here. I did some research on this and found a few suggestions from old threads here, but nothing really specific to this problem. I'm hoping someone could provide me a little advice.I found this '53 Windsor Deluxe for sale on the internet that was said to run and drive perfectly. I talked to the owner and looked at it today. The seller says he used it as a daily driver but moved and he doesn't want to keep driving it over the long drive to work now. We think it has about 50,000 original miles. It has been parked in a garage for at least a couple months and not driven during that time till today. Engine and tranny are flat-head 6 cylinder and I believe a Prestomatic from what research I've done. When we got there, the owner said he fired it up and took it down the road and found the transmission was not shifting. The car does run and drive very well, but the tranny will not shift up between 1st-2nd or 3rd-4th. It goes into D or L from a stand still without a problem, and it shifts manually from L to D while driving without problem, but the tranny itself doesn't seem to shift. Also, the owner mentioned that if you leave the car idling in neutral for a few moments, it will not go into reverse. He didn't demonstrate it, but said the shifter won't go into reverse and it sounds a bit like gears grinding. If you put the car in D or L and rev it just a little, then shift to reverse, it goes right in without argument.From what I've found so far, it looks like the likely culprits are wiring and low oil in the tranny. I am personally leaning toward the oil level since the owner said it worked fine before and I'm inclined to believe him. The rest of the car is in great shape, and this is the only problem I found with the car, besides a few brake issues.On the brake issue, from research I've done, the brakes on these cars are very good but can be tricky to work on. Just curious if there is anyone in south-central Kansas/Wichita area that is familiar with the brakes that might be willing to help me figure out how to properly rebuild and adjust them.Looking forward to any advice. The owner has a shop manual for it and said he'll look into the tranny problem over the next few days. Would be nice to give him some pointers to look at when he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fossiltin62 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm in Clearwater and familiar with these cars. Will help if I can. Will 584-2098 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Check trans 10W oil level and worn motor mounts/ shifter linkage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The engine needs to idle down for the trans to shift. Those engines idle very slow and a lot of people set them too fast.If it won't shift into reverse it is probable the clutch is dragging. This is not easy to fix, the clutch may have to come out. Or, it may just be stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kananesgi Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Thanks for the tips. The seller just emailed me with an update. He says he added some oil to the tranny and it's "leaking out near the front." Does that sound like a bad seal? Just got a bunch more snow dumped on us again, so he said he'll look into it further when the weather starts to cooperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 There is no front input shaft seal on the M5/6 transmissions. Sure he didn't mean the rear seal? As Rusty says-possible high idle can cause a no or delayed auto upshift. The 2 Fluid drive input shaft "Oilite" bushings could be worn/damaged causing the input shaft to keep spinning even with the clutch pedal depressed and cause a grinding reverse. You need to check clutch pedal free play- at 1" or abouts.Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kananesgi Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Just curious if anyone can point out how to refill the transmission oil level? The seller just got back to me and admitted he screwed up when checking the oil. He pulled the panel out on the interior (PAX side of the tranny hump) and removed a round cap on the bell-housing and dumped oil in there. This leaked out at the front of the tranny for obvious reasons. Tonight, he discovered the plug on the torque converter and realised what he did. He said he's drained the oil from the transmission and is going to refill it with the proper oil (10w non-detergent oil or TDH oil if he can find it). I just hope there aren't any reprecussions from dumping oil into the bell-housing by accident. He did test drive it today and said it shifted from 1st - 2nd, but it would not shift from 3rd - 4th. After turning around to head home, he said it would no longer shift 1st - 2nd again. He didn't notice any clutch slippage though, which is what I fear with the oil in the bell-housing.I'm just curious if anyone can confirm how to fill the transmission and how to check for proper oil level. He has a shop service manual (sounds like a '50s era manual, but I haven't seen it myself). From that manual, the seller thinks there is a plug on the top of the tranny that is used to fill it. Is that correct?Also, if the clutch did/does get oiled and starts slipping, can I clean it to fix it or should I look into replacing the clutch all together. I'm planning to remove the tranny sometime after I purchase the car to rebuild it some (replace all the seals and make sure everything is good). Since I'll have the tranny out, it shouldn't be a problem to take the clutch out and clean or replace it at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The fluid coupling is accessed/filled through the oval plate held with 2 phillip screws on the floor hump-pass side. Then under that is the round 2" plug on the bell housing that gives access to the 3/4" fill plug on the fluid coupling which is very slow/difficult to fill. If it needs fluid more than once every in 5 years of service of any amount it (the fluid coupling seal/bellows or graphite ring assm.) needs to be fixed! If the coupling is low on fluid the car won't move too well if any.The trans is filled through the fill plug on the passenger side with 10W as in any standard transmission. If it is low it won't upshift. This M-6 transmission is not connected hydraulically to the fluid coupling in any way.There is another system used on chryslers with the M-6 trans called "Fluid Torque Drive" referring to the coupling unit updated to a Torque Converter for improved acceleration-this design is much more complicated and somewhat prone to trouble. I assume you don't have this setup. If you do we need to start all over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Just to clarify c49er's statements- there are 2 versions of the same transmission used on 53 Chryslers. One is called Fluid Torque Drive and the other is plain Fluid Drive. The difference is, the first has a torque converter and the other is a fluid coupling.The gearshift quadrant on the steering column should be plainly labeled as to which it is.His directions are for filling the Fluid Drive version. The Fluid Torque Drive must be treated a little differently.I would only add one thing, before removing the fill plug from the fluid coupling, stuff a rag around the hole so you can't accidentally drop the plug inside the housing.By pouring oil in the way he did, the owner did no harm. The oil simply ran over the outside of the fluid coupling and dripped out the bottom of the housing. It will not hurt anything.The first thing you should do, is do a search and read all the old threads on Fluid Drive. There is a mound of info in there.DO NOT take out the transmission. Don't do anything at all untill you read the threads. The transmission is extremely reliable and rugged and almost never needs repairs. 9 times out of 10 any problem can be fixed by adding oil, or attending to the control mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Here is some good info to start withHow The Fluid Drive Transmission Workshttp://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/L...012A/index.htmHow To Diagnose The Fluid Drive Transmissionhttp://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/L...012B/index.htmTroubleshooting The Hydraulically Operated Transmissionhttp://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/L.../024/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kananesgi Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Cool, thanks for the info and links guys. I went ahead and purchased the car today. The seller managed to find 10w tractor oil at TSC and refilled both the fluid drive and the transmission. He had drained the oil from both last night. It took right at 2 gal of oil to fill both, but she drives out and shifts fine now. Working on getting pictures uploaded now and I might start a new thread to show it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now