New to the ROA but not BCA

[Guest Dan Cook]

I jumped in and joined the ROA this evening and I now have a couple of questions. Maybe not questions so much as clarification on a few things but first a little info on the car (1963 Riviera).

Vin: 7J1100381

FB# 10561 (of 40,000)

Build week 12C (third week of Dec 1962)

It has;

Power windows w/crank vents

power antenna-MIA

AM radio

A/C

Remote mirror

power seat

remote trunk release

Shelf mounted spare/anchor loop on edge of shelf

I beleive the orginal color of the car was silver which has recently been repainted silver. The interior is silver leather. The dash and headlinehave been redone in black, door panels are in good condition. The seats are in poor shape and will be reupholstered in black.

The mirror I think is in the wrong place, next to the vent window instead of the door window.

I don't know about the engine yet, meaning I think it has been rebuilt or maybe just replaced from another car.

Attached is a photo of the data plate, maybe it will help.

I haven't found any rust yet and now evidence that it has been in a wreck but over the years parts could have been replaced. Is there anything in particular I should be looking at.

It seems like a sound car with no shakes or rattles and runs good Having driven it straight up I-5 for 180 miles the day I bought it.

As the weather starts to improve I'l get some better pictures that show the true condition of the car.

Your thoughts will be appreciated.

Dan

[68RIVGS]

Welcome to the ROA Dan, good to see your finally on board !!

I'm sure there are lots of fellow 1st generation classic owners who can answer most of your Buick questions.

[1965rivgs]

Hi Dan,

This car was for sale on Ebay several times recently. At that time I emailed the seller to inform him or her that the Fisher Body plate which was displayed as part of the auction was in fact from a `64 Riviera and not a `63. Part of the reason I did so is because the seller made a point of noting the car was the very desireable silver on silver combination.

The data plate displayed is for a `64 Riviera which was silver outside and black custom inside. Either your car is a `63 which someone has switched the data plate on or a `64 which has been mistakenly identified as a `63. Many ways to tell, something is not right. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and the last thing I want to do is resurrect the "Riviera police"! Just trying to help,

Tom Mooney

[RivNut]

Dan,

I read your post and was about to reply but I see that Tom has informed you that your data plate is for a 64 built in Dec. of 63. Here are a couple of obvious things to look for.

1) Heater and a/c controls:

• On a '63, they will be under the dash above the radio
  
• On a '64, they will be on the console
  

2) Transmission:

• On a '63, last year for the Dynaflow, the shift quadrant is PNDLR
  
• On a '64, first year for the ST400, the shift quadrant is PRNDL
  

3) The body is a little tougher because these things are easily changed.

• Hood ornament - yours has a '63; for '64 the ornament is an R that stands up
  
• Trunk - in '63, the work BUICK is written in block letters centered on the trunk; in '64, Riviera is written in script on the right corner of the trunk.
  

4) Seats - in '63, the squares on the seat cover go all the way up to the chrome strip and down to the skirting. In '64 there's a solid piece sewn in and the panels are within those. Check out www.clarkscorvair.com and look at the Riviera seat covers he reproduces.

5) VIN's for 63 have a J in them; VIN's for '64 have a K in them.

Hope this helps.

Ed

[Guest Dan Cook]

There's no need for anybody to feel like they are the bearer of bad news. I plan to have fun with the car, I already knew it would never be a show car. I didn't plan to restore it, just fix a few things and drive the wheels off it.

There has been quite a bit of work done to the car, by who I don't know. The guy I got the car from didn't seem to know much about it so I figured he was flipping it to make a few bucks. I also guessed it was probably on ebay at some time since I found a hand written ad under the seat. Overall it is as it was advertised when I bought it.

I thought that the data plate was for a 64 and meant to ask about that and forgot but that got worked out. With the added information here I'm sure the car is "mostly" a 63.

The heater and A/C controls are under the dash, above the radio.

The transmission is the Dynaflow..........PNDLR.

Buick is centered on the trunk.

The Vin is the J for 63.............7J1100381

I didn't see what anybody would gain by changing the data plate but I just went out to look again and it looks like it belongs there. I wonder if this is an instance where someone used two cars to make one good one? Maybe a 63 body on a 64 frame? 1963+3/4 or 1964-1/2????????

Dan

[Guest Dan Cook]

The link for clarkscorvair.com doesn't work.

[RivNut]

Dan,

I must have typed that from memory; I should know better.

Here's the link. This time I copied and pasted it.

Ed

Clark's Corvair Parts - Clark's Corvair - 1963-65 BUICK RIVIERA SETS

[Guest Dan Cook]

Dan,

I must have typed that from memory; I should know better.

Here's the link. This time I copied and pasted it.

Ed

Clark's Corvair Parts - Clark's Corvair - 1963-65 BUICK RIVIERA SETS

Thanks Ed,

I took a look at his website and I'm going to order his catalog. It definately seems like a bargain for the upholstery.

I still can't figure out the oddities with the car but no one notices and it gets a lot of attention around here. If I find something new about it I'll post it.

Dan

[RivNut]

I'm guessing that the car is titled as a '63 and the VIN numbers are those of a '63 as well. There's a VIN number on the block as well (if the block is original to the car.) Here's a link that shows you where to find the VIN (Engine Serial Number) on the block.

Ed

Team Buick

[Guest Dan Cook]

Thanks Ed, I'll take a look when I get it back Friday after the mufflers are on.

Dan

[Guest Dan Cook]

I checked the engine number against the VIN and the numbers match. So what would I have, a late 1963 or an early 1964?

The car is titled as a 1963. I know the 63 engines were silver but this one is red. I know this means nothing, it could have been rebuilt and painted red.

I guess as I need parts I'll go with 63 for the year.

Dan

[RivNut]

Why the body would have a '64 plate on it is something you'll never know unless you find the previous owner who made the swap or ??????

If the VIN on the body and the matching VIN on the engine both have a J in them, then I think you should definitely look for parts for a '63.

As you become familiar with both the '63 and '64 models, you'll learn more and more about the differences between the years.

One sure fire way of doing that is to be a member of the ROA. As you look at members cars, and read the Q&A in each issue, the differences start to become clear.

There was no such thing as a late '63 or an early '64. The assembly line was shut down completely and totally retooled for the new model changes.

Ed

[Guest Dan Cook]

Thanks for the info Ed. I'll keep myself up to date. I joined the ROA a few days ago so I know I'll learn something here.

I don't see what anyone would gain by changing a data plate.

Dan

[Glenn McMahon]

Hi Dan,

As you will discover it is sometimes unbelievable what people do to cars. In most cases we collectors would be happy if they had left things alone. In time I hope everything will fall into place for you. You just persevere and eventually hope you get the car where you want it. As you have said drive it and have fun!

Regards,

Glenn M. ROA#12929

[Guest Dan Cook]

I just got the Riview and other goodies in the mail yesterday but haven't had a chance to look at it yet. The more I have cleaned up and worked at getting the little things taken care of shows the car is in way better shape than I first thought. The big things.........runs and drives great and no rust. Exhaust done, now off with those 14" wheels and on with new tires on the stock wheels this week and then new shocks.

Dan

[Guest Dan Cook]

I bought 5 new tires and mounted them on the stock rims to replace the custom 14" wheels and put on new air shocks. Makes the car look and drive better. I didn't know it until I took the wheels off that they were put on using the original studs and only about three or four threads were holding the lug nuts. If I had hit a curb or something else a wheel might have popped off.

The shocks that were on it were way too short. It looked liked somebody had to compress the springs to put the shocks on so they would keep the car held low. It looked like a dangerous situation to me but it's back to the way it's supposed to be now.

I replaced the intake manifold gasket, water pump gasket and put on new mufflers so now it's safe and legal to drive.

I added a few photos of the interior which needs a lot of work. Is there anything here indicating that this isn't a 63? I'm still cussin' and discussin' the 64 data plate.

Dan

[RivNut]

Everything I see in the interior is '63. Leather wasn't an option in '64. The way the seats are stitched is '63; the windshield wiper switch and the light switch are '63. The black vinyl on the console with wood grain on the door panels is '63; the emblems in the wheel covers are '63; the lettering on the trunk is '63. Who will ever know why it has a '64 data plate on it.

Ed

PS, don't pay an arm and a leg through eBay for new lenses for the lights on your console. Those are still available at your local dealer.

Edited February 12, 2011 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest Dan Cook]

Thanks Ed, Somewhere I have seen them locally but can't remember where off hand.

[RivNut]

The same lenses were used in many A bodies through out the 70's. There are still enough of those cars around that GM still carries the part in house. I'm just guessing here, but you may have seen them in the Help section of your local jobber. I "googled" cutlass sail panel lens and found this link. There were tons of others as well. It wasn't the first one listed; those "findithere" links and ebay links were the first ones to come up.

The Parts Place Is The Largest Supplier Of Chevrolet Buick Oldsmobile and Pontiac Restoration Parts

Glenn also has them at CARS, Inc.

Old Buick Parts - CARS. Inc.

Ed

[68RIVGS]

Here's a part no, for the 3 tab lens Dan - 4765600. They should be available at any GM dealer, and list for $7 each.

[68RIVGS]

Ed, the lenses used in those '70 'A' bodies were 4 tab !

[Guest Dan Cook]

When I start collecting all these small parts for the interior I will probably have to use the internet. The closest GM dealership is 100 miles away since the one on this side of the mountains was one of the ones GM closed down. I'm finding a lot of these things aren't that hard to find.

The one thing I need and haven't found yet is the script that says Riviera that is on the lower front fenders forward of the doors.

Dan

[RivNut]

The lenses in the two links I posted are both the three tab lenses (even though they're listed for the A-bodies in the first link.) $5.00 from The Parts Place, and $6.00 from CARS. It's always good practice to support the vendors who support our hobby. Dan, one of the first things you'll want to do, is collect catalogs from all of the vendors. There's a large list of restoration sources on the ROA's website; contact them and get their catalogs.

Ed

Edited February 12, 2011 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest Dan Cook]

Thanks Ed, I'll start doing that. I got the catalog from Clark's Corvair Parts and got a leather sampe from them. I was surprised at just how much they supply for Rivieras.

Dan