Info regarding 15 inch wheels for 1965 Dynamic 88

[Guest connl]

I own a 1965 Dynamic 88 and have been trying to determine what wheels to purchase for this car. I have an original Olds sales brochure that shows 14 inch were standard. The person I purchased the car from provided me the original (allegedly) wheels (no tires) and hubcaps. The car was sold to me with aftermarket chrome wheels with spoke covers. The tires on the aftermarket wheels are 15 inch, so I'm assuming the original wheels he gave me are also 15 inch. When I replaced the front brake linings, I had to purchase the larger option (heavy duty?) linings. Questions: 1) Did this car come with a 15 inch wheel option? 2) Are there 15 inch spinner/spoke hubcaps available for the car. The original hubcaps provided to me with the car don't excite me, so I'm looking for a more attractive and authentic option. Any recommendations are welcome. Thanks. Larry

[Oldsfan]

Unfortunately, I don't have a parts book that covers '65s. I've got a gap for '64 and '65. There was an optional 15" rim listed for '66. It is different than the 15" rims listed for '67 and '68. I would imagine the '65s would have used the same 15" rims that the '66s did. Must have been a police or trailer towing option. '66 lists a special dog dish hubcap for 15" wheels, but not a 15" full wheel disc. Again, I imagine '65 would have been the same, meaning if you were given dog dishes, they would be your only choice. If you were given full wheel discs, I would venture to guess that they're not stock if the rims are in fact 15". But, I would not assume the stock rims are 15" just because the aftermarket rims are. I've seen owners put 15" rims and newer wheelcovers on these cars because it's easier to get the larger size tires that these cars should have. You should check your stock rims to see what you have. A picture of the wheelcover would help, also.

14" wheel cover options (for full size cars) in '65 were the standard full wheel disc, a deluxe wheel disc, simulated wire wheel discs (with 2 bar spinners) and the cast aluminum wheel discs that bolted to special rims (also with 2 bar spinners). A dog dish may have been standard.

Paul

[rocketraider]

Larry, they could have 15" wheels as part of police, HD suspension, or trailer towing option. Unfortunately I think all the 15" wheels had dogdish hubcaps. I've never seen 15" versions of any of the 57-70 B&C body full wheel covers. Even the few Ninety Eights I've seen with 15" wheels had dogdishes.

66-70 Toronados had 15" wheels but never wire spoke or spinners. Their fancy caps are nice but probably not what you're seeking. Similar to these http://cgi.ebay.com/1969-69-Olds-Oldsmob...1QQcmdZViewItem

Starting 1967, spinners were outlawed as a hazard to pedestrians by the Feds, which limits your choices there.

Starting 1971, 88-98 had 15" wheels, and a wire spoke option. These have a small blunt round center cap with a Rocket, and all the spokes are diecast chrome instead of the stainless wire used earlier. Meaning they tend to pit. These also come in 15" for big cars and 14" for Cutlass/Omega, so you have to watch which ones you get. Here's the Cutlass 14" version

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-1979...sspagenameZWDVW

77-85 RWD fullsize cars also had 15" wire wheel cover options with large diecast chrome center caps. Locking versions had a removable emblem for access to the locknut.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-1979-78-Oldsmob...1QQcmdZViewItem

We 57-70 owners fight an uphill battle, since we are limited in our wheel treatment choices, and hardly anybody makes 14" tires big enough for our cars unless you go the repro route, and those are expensive.

Welcome to Oldsworld.

[Guest connl]

Well, I guess I need to find out if my original wheel is 14 or 15 inch. I measured it from top to bottom and it was 15 1/2 inches. Tried to measure the lug nut holes, but don't know how to do it correctly. I'll take it to a shop for accurate measurement and report back. If it is 14 inch, what size tire should I use? I've seen your feedback saying today's 14 inch tires are not big enough. What is the correct size to use? Also, I like the wheel covers from your link. Now all I need to do is find out if my wheel is 14 inch and what size tire to buy. This NEVER ENDS! (but it's fun). My hubcaps are not dog dish style. They look very similar to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Olds...bayphotohosting

Larry

[Oldsfan]

Larry,

If your wheel covers are similar to the example you've given, and they fit the rims that you were given, then you've got 14" rims. The wheel covers you've given as an example were the standard 14" wheel cover they used in '65.

Here's a '65 98 with the optional deluxe wheelcovers. They're a little nicer.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Olds...1QQcmdZViewItem

A '65 Jetstar I with the correct two-blade spinner wire wheel covers:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VINTAGE-M...1QQcmdZViewItem

And another '65 Jetstar I with the correct two-blade spinner cast aluminum wheel covers. These take a special wheel.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-65-O...1QQcmdZViewItem

The largest tire I was able to get without going to Coker was a 225/14 from Cooper. I had them on a '67 98 and a '62 Starfire convertible. I think they are too small. Coker offers 235/14 radials. They will run in excess of $200 each with the shipping. I went with them on my '62 Starfire coupe and sometimes wonder if it shouldn't be a size bigger still (which isn't available). I think the original bias tire size on the '65 to '68 cars was 8.55-14 or something like that. It should be in your owners manual. These are available as reproductions at about 3/4s the cost of the big radials.

Paul

[Guest connl]

Got the original wheel measured. It is 14 inch. According to the sales brochure, the original tire size is 8.25 x 14. Tirerack says that converts to a modern size of 215/75-14. I've only seen this size listed at Coker so far. So, it looks like the aftermarket wheels on the car are 15 inch to allow for a lower cost modern tire. How does a 15 inch wheel fit on a 14 inch car? I suppose it is because the bolt pattern is the same? I think Glenn stated in an earlier post that my bolt pattern is 5 x 5 (recall the Rally Wheels for my Dynamic 88 posting). Can anyone validate that my stock 14 inch wheels are 5 x 5 bolt pattern? Thanks. Larry.

[Guest copper128]

All '65-68 full size models except the Jetstar 88 (330 powered) used 14x6 wheels with a 5 on 5" bolt pattern. The rare police/h.d. 15" wheel option was also a 5x5" pattern. They came with Toronado center caps and trim rings. The trim rings are hard to find, so my wheels don't have them.

[Guest old-cars]

Hello:

I just discovered your post ref: 15" wheels on a 65 Starfire. I have just purchased a 65 Starfire convertible and am attempting the same conversion. I have done this successfully with my 1966 Impala SS Big block and the ride and handling benefits are great. I used to be a tire dealer so I can say with certainty that the 215/75r14 tire converts to a 215/70r15 tire. The 14" tire is 26.69 inches tall and the 15" tire is 26.85" tall. Michelin makes a very nice thinline whitewall in this 15" size for older Lincoln Continentals. The model is the Symmetry available from the tire rack for $102 or Goodyear Integrity (thin line)at $67 or Goodyear Regatta 2 (1" wide whitewall) for $71. The challenge is to get the correct 15" rim with the PROPER OFFSET AND BACKSPACE. Do you know if the 67-71 full sized 15" rims will fit correctly? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.

A great trick which can be used to create a very original appearance 15" wire wheel hubcap is to locate 15" caps from a 1970-71 Impala /Monte Carlo. These 15"caps are identical in appearance to the 14" caps Old used in 1965 and will fit perfectly on a 15" wheel. If you remove the Chevy bowtie center, you can bolt on the 2 bar Olds spinner and have a perfect match except it is 15" instead of 14". If the bolts go too far into the Olds spinners, they can crack the pot metal so use some small washers to keep the bolts from driving too deeply into the spinners. Could you please forward this note to the fellow who asked the original question as I have just joined this site and I am unsure how to do this. Again, Please advise if you know what 15 inch wheels will have the correct offset and backspace as the 14 inch wheels. Many thanks.

Paul

[Guest oldmobile1]

I've used Chevy pick up truck wheels, the older one's used the 5 on 5 bolt pattern, they are a little deeper, but with the dog dish caps they look good. They also fill out the wheel opening, doesn't have the wide body skinny wheel look. It's a matter of preference.

[rocketraider]

77-79 403 and HD suspension big cars also used the 5x5 BP 15" wheel.

On tires: I have an NOS U.S. Royal white/red pinstripe 8.55-14 tire. I also have a set of unknown age H78-14 belted tires that came off the green Starfire and are supposed to be the correct size replacement for the 57-70 big car 14" tire. I was moving stuff around in the storage unit today and stood the two side by side. The 8.55 was a good inch taller than the H78.

Seems I remember J and L 78-14 tires years ago, but no such thing now.

[Guest old-cars]

Hello Gene;

I did some quick math on the tires you mentioned. The 8.00x14 tires would have been 26.48" tall while the 8.55x14 would be 27.34". The H78 tires you mentioned would come in at 27.81 inches and be TALLER than the 8.55's by a half inch. You mentioned they were belted tires... could they have been H-70-14? This was a common tire by the 70's. The H-70-14 would be 26.4 " and be almost exactly one inch SHORTER than the 8.55'a as you described. Just a thought. By the way in addition to my 1963 Starfire Convertible and my 1965 Starfire convertible, I also own a Hammond B3 with Leslie and Tone cabinets. May the Blues live forever. Happy Holidays.

Paul

PS: I'm still trying to find out if anyone knows the offset and backspace for the 15" wheels.

[rocketraider]

Ha Paul- they are H78-14 Atlas and 8.55-14 U.S. Royal. I think bias belted tires were generally lower profile than the old numeric sizes. I bought the red/white off ebay just to have a prototype to take to Diamondback Classics when I have to get custom whitewalls made for the Starfires- 225/75R14 is the biggest 14" tire you can get, and only a couple tire companies even have those anymore. I think my Pontiac bud is going to beat me to it having a set made for his silvermist gray 1964 Grand Prix. The red/white will look good on 8-lugs against the silver w/ black vinyl top- probably better than against my Fern Mist Starfire with wire caps.

Bluesmobile, a local blues band, used a left rear 3/4 view of my 1976 Ninety Eight on the cover of their only and now out-of-print CD, with the Virginia plate photoshopped to read "BLUESMOBILE". I asked if they wanted the Starfire, but they wanted the big blue Ninety Eight instead of a green Starfire. All those guys have moved on to other bands, but still play. The lounge in the local Howard Johnson had live blues Wednesday and Saturday nights till it changed hands. Now I have to drive 50 miles to Greensboro or Hillsborough NC to hear any .

My Hammond is a 1961 A100, which sadly has not even been turned on in close to 4 months. It's time for its yearly oiling.

[Guest old-cars]

Hi Glen- Thanks for your reply. BTW, the old Atlas Tires were made exclusively for the old Standard Oil Companies and were sold at Sohio, Esso, American, and Conoco, etc.. The old bias ply tires were actually taller than the numeric tires. They have a 78 profile while the numerics have a 75 profile. If you think of an E as equivalent to '195', then F=205 and G=215. H=225 and G=235. At the end of the bias ply era, there were 70 series (70 profile) tires which were the 'wide ovals'. If you remember those , you're as old as I am. (I even remember the Blue Streak tires Goodyear came out with in 67-68 to compete with Uniroyal Tiger Paw and Firestone wide oval redlines. Obviously, the 70 series tires were lower than the comparable 78 numeric sizes. For example, F(78)-14 was 26.59" while a F70-14 was 25.29". This tire is really short so the car companies went to H70-14 tires at 26.4" for the GTO's and 442's to get back to the height of their original F78-14 tires. The result of the lower profile was a wider tire patch and improved handling. Of course, Michelin and the radial tires changed everything.

I just checked the Coker Tire site and they have a 225/75r14

with a red line or a REALLY wide white stripe. BUT, they also have a 235/75r14 tire listed (this is new to me) with a 1" White stripe. This looks like a pretty cool tire. By the way, I keep asking this question....do you happen to know the offset and backspace of say a 1969 or 70 Oldsmobile 15" wheels? How about your 98? I'm trying to convert to 15" wheels but want to keep the same offset as original 14". Thanks for your help in answering this question.

Paul

[Guest 76Supreme455]

Hey guys, Does anyone remember the Kelly-Springfield whitewall that had a gold border around the whitewall. My dad put a set on our white 65 98 Holiday SportsSedan. The car came equipped with Firestones, but after two different problems with those tires having a blister on the sidewall, he went to the Olds dealer in Nashville and they put on the Kelly-Springfields. I just remember they looked so cool on a big 98. The best I can remember, the whitewall was the same size as the Firestone about 1 inch with the gold rim either on the inside or outside of the whitewall. I have never seen any more of these.

[rocketraider]

Welcome aboard Alan! If you want another set of those K-S white/gold, these folks can make them for you, maybe even on a K-S casing!

http://www.widewhitewalltires.com

Or you could go mustard and mayonnaise with a set of Vogue Tyres, though I've always thought Vogues looked just a little "pimpy".

http://www.voguetyre.com/products/tires/full.cfm?Page=1&ProductID=0000000009

On a side note, Alan was my counterpart as OCA Southeast Zone Director for many years. His home chapter is fresh off hosting the 2007 OCA Nationals.

[Guest 76Supreme455]

Thanks Glen.........I'm with you on the Vogue Tyres, they aren't my style....wish I had that 65 98 back to put some K-S on!!! In regards to the nationals just past, did you catch the picture in JWO of my old 63 98 doing the drag strip thing! Wow that was a hoot!!!! Ron did a fantastic job on the restoration of that car. I tried to get him to give it back to me......no deal!

[Guest old-cars]

Hello-

Does anyone know where I could get a left hand exhaust manifold for a 1965 Starfire? Many thanks.

Paul Pappas

ppappas1@maine.rr.com

[rocketraider]

http://gawain.membrane.com/~thornton/b_and_c_manifold.html

Thornton Reproductions makes repop S casting manifolds. High quality piece from what I hear. It would be worth their price to me to avoid searching for and fooling with a used one of questionable quality.

Put it this way Paul- Thornton reproduction parts are on a lot of high-point OCA showcars and the 442 guys seem to be well pleased with the stuff.

[Guest connl]

Wow, I didn't think I'd cause such a stir with my lack of knowledge in tire size. Here's my outcome. I finally figured out my original wheels are 14 inch. Hard to believe, but I came across 4 brand new NOS, H78 14 tires in the back room of a convienence store in South Carolina that used to be a tire shop. Two of the tires are Michelin, two are El Dorado. I put these on my 14 inch original rims, bought 4 original three blade spoke hubcaps (1966 version) from that on-line site, and now have these on my car. It looks fantastic! Now I'm just trying to dump those aftermarket 15 inch American Racing spoke wheels. Learned a lot on this project. Thanks for all the feedback. Larry

[Guest old-cars]

Hey Larry:

Just curious...are your tires all HR(Radial)78-14? Michelin pioneered radial tires and I just wanted to check that you don't have two radial and two bias ply tires. This is considered an extremely dangerous mix. Also, be aware that old tires stored in the presence of ozone from electric motors or chargers or stored in ultraviolet light (fluorescent lights) can degrade the rubber and cause drying and cracking. Please let me know if I can offer and additional insight.

Paul Pappas

[Guest connl]

Paul,

The tires are HR78-14, both front and back. I have the El Dorados on the back and the Michelins on the front. No electric motor or chargers in storage area. Lights were incandescent, and dim. The only problem I am having is a slight flat spot on tire since they were stored standing position in a tire rack for all these years. Hopefully, the flat spot may work its way out? If not, I guess I'll have to buy Cokers. Any suggestions on how to get the white walls back to bright white? Thanks for your input. Larry

[Guest old-cars]

Larry:

I just visited the wide whitewall website (www.widewhitewalltires.com) and they have some excellent advice. Check out the FAQ section. Do not use Brillo or any other metal pad as they can leave small pieces of wire in the rubber which rusts and stains the white rubber.Good luck

Paul