1935Packard

I live in the mid-atlantic area, and we usually get snow a handful of times a year. The roads are usually salted just before a snow or when the snow starts. Here's my question: How long is best to wait after the roads are salted so as to minimize the damage to our cars? I've generally figured that I need to wait until there's a good rain storm to wash the salt away. Once the road is dry after that good rain, I usually feel okay driving so long as I can't actually see any salt on the roads. My thinking is that the roads are pretty safe so long as the rain has washed away the salt, but probably not until then. Is that too cautious? Not cautious enough? I'd be interested in your take.

Great thread topic, I've been wondering about this question as well. Looking at the market for brass cars, it seems that the Maxwells are an unusually good deal: They're still inexpensive, and yet they seem well built and pretty well designed. But I say that as an outsider to the world of brass cars: I hope those who are familiar with these acars will chime in.

Interesting. The high starting bid of the modified car makes it a little hard to compare them, at least so far. And then there's the difference between a senior and junior car; a stock 120 sedan is probably worth around 40% of a stock Super 8 sedan. But it's still an interesting comparison -- we'll see where they each go.

Thanks, Matt -- that's a very helpful comment.

Steve, Yes, the car was recently acquired: I bought it about a year ago, but it was being worked on until October (bringing it back to solid and reliable mechanical shape) and I've only had it a few months. The condition of the current 1970s repaint is pretty worn, though. There are a few golf-ball-sized chips; about a dozen dime-size chips; a few body panels that are pretty scratched up, parts around the fender are peeling off, revealing the original tan color; and there a few parts on the hood and the tail lights where the paint is worn through to the primer. Plus, the paint job wasn't very good when new, either: it was a pretty cheap respray, and there's serious orange peel all over the fenders, for example. Looks fine at 20 feet, after having buffed it out, but not so much closer up.

Thanks, all, that's very helpful. The car has been in my family since 1942, so I don't expect I'll ever sell it; but then you never know what may some day happen. If the only paint job really worth doing is in that kind of price range, though, maybe I'll stick to the worn 70s repaint for a few more years. It'd kind of nice not having to worry about the paint getting chips or marks.

My 1207 coupe roadster is a driver, and the paint job is a very worn 70s job with nonoriginal colors. I'd like to have it repainted, but when I asked the resto shop that has worked on the car what that would entail, the owner of the shop estimated that it would run around 10-15k. Of course, he was thinking a show quality paint job, down to the bare metal, everything done just right, etc. That's not really what I want, though, as I want to keep the car a driver. I want it to look nicer, and I want to change the color, but to me a perfect paint job just means that I'll end up worrying about keeping it perfect rather than enjoying driving the car. So that brings up a question: What other options are there, at different price points? Sorry to ask such an open-ended question, but I really have no idea what the different options are. I don't want an Earl Scheib special for this car, but I don't want to pay for perfection, either. Any ideas? Thanks, as always.

Find it

Torch, I'm not sure I understand; if insurance companies are overvaluing cars, how does that change the market price? I can understand why "rich a-hole auctions" can impact market price, but I don't get how insurance valuations do.

I used to live in the city and rent garages in the suburbs for my cars, but it became a huge hassle; every year or so I needed to find new garages. I ended up moving to the burbs to get a huge two-car garage of my own. Garage space is definitely a factor making it harder to get more cars; now I need to find more garages to rent, and my cars tend to be pretty big.

There are lots of great classic car videos on YouTube, but I have been particularly impressed with the segments by "Original Wheels TV," an Illinois local cable access program. There are 80 segments altogether, and each one features a different car owned by a private owner. The interviewer first gets the owner to talk about the car, its history and features, and how he came to own it. Then they go for a ride, and the viewer gets to see the car on the road. During the ride, the interviewer asks more questions, like what advice the owner would give to other people looking to buy a similar car. Each segment is about 6 or 7 minutes long. A few particularly interesting ones (at least to me -- taste will vary of course, and there are a wide range of cars covered): 1954 Kaiser Darrin 1933 LaSalle 1934 Ford Woody 1936 Chrysler Airflow It's really well done; very engaging to watch, complete with its own routines (everytime they break to go for a ride, the guy says, "let's go for a ride in a [car year and model] -- let's go for a ride!") It really should be a cable TV show available more broadly. Worth checking out. (Oh, and sorry if someone else pointe this out already -- I looked in the archives, but couldn't find anything.)

I just checked the NADA guide -- yeah, seems about right for the junior cars I was looking at. They have an "average" 35 120 convertible at 51k and a "high" at 87k. They have an average 35 120 sedan at 22k. I think their prices for senior models may be a bit off, though; they have 60k for an "average" 35 Standard 8 Coupe Roadster at 160k for an "average" 35 12 Roadster. I think the former is too low and the latter is too high. (Although it's interesting if it's true that the value difference between an average 35 120 and a 35 Standard Eight is only 10k -- goes to what I was saying about the relative price convergence between junior and senior models)

tbirdman, Steve, thanks for the comments. I was "on the market" for a mid-30s Packard for about two years, and I found that the value guides for these cars seemed pretty far off the market. For awhile, I was looking for a #3 120 convertible coupe, which most value guides told me I could find for $30k. I spent a while looking, and I concluded that the market price was more like 50-60k for an honest #3. The 120 convertibles available for 30k were barn finds that needed total restorations. That was my experience, at least.

Interesting comments. As my first post suggested, I tend to think that prices for a well sorted, "real" #3 Packard 120 are higher than the 10-15k range many seem to be thinking. As best I can recall, I haven't seen an ad in hemmings (or elsewhere) for that kind of price range for that kind of car in at least 3 or 4 years. Of course, final sale prices will be lower than offering prices, but still -- I think 10-14k for a solid #3 is a great deal. More broadly, in the last 3 years or so, I've tended to find 120 prices seem to be up and are getting much more close to senior car prices than they used to be. I suspect it's because parts are plentiful, and fewer and fewer people know the difference between the junior and senior models. Of course, as pointed out above, much depends on the details; it's easy to buy a $15k car and then have to put in $15k for a few 'simple' repairs. That's why I tend to think well-sorted #3 is a bit higher than many are suggesting. I suppose $20k instead of $25k may be more accurate, but I think an honest 120 sedan that doesn't need costly work is actually pretty rare, and i think the market sees that. That's my sense of the market, at least.

Do you have any more pictures? Engine photos, dash, and underbody would be helpful. My general guess would be somewhere in the 25k range, but that's just a wild guess.

Thanks! -- I just sent you a PM.

I have to say, I've found this a very helpful thread. My 1207 was originally "Bronson Beige," and was repainted in 1978 with a two tone scheme -- silver body with black fenders. I don't plan to get the car repainted any time soon, as I like the idea of having old paint on the car (at least for now) that I don't have to worry about much. But this is a helpful thread as I begin to ponder what I might do when I do repaint the car. Lately I've been thinking that I might return it to the original Bronson Beige. I also like the Pompeii Green Metallic color. (I should add that the only 1935 colors I know are from the 120 color sheet the Packard Club has posted; I don't know if the paint color offerings were different for the Twelves.)

Two more.

Here's a 1934 Phaeton that was on sale on ebay recently. The listing is here. Note that the seller says, "Although painted in period restoration colors of the 70's, . . . This would make an EASY restoration to another color if you choose."

Twitch writes: "The thing is what YOU want your car to look like and be not so much what was common. These cars are no longer common. Who is to say your car can't represent one with beauty rings?" No one is to say that; I tend to think an owner can do whatever they want with their property. But my own preferences are to factor in both appearance and historical accuracy. That is, whether I want them depends in part on how common they were. I feel this way about Trippe lights, too, for exampe; I have mixed views on how they look on a car, but my understanding is that they were actually pretty rare back in the 1930s. Given that, I tend to think I won't get them.

I've only had my Packard for about 2 months, but I've often been surprised by how many people recognize the car as a Packard. I'll be driving around my neighborhood and will be stopped at a light, and someone will see the car and say something like, "Hey, it's a Packard!" Sometimes people who recognize the cars are older and remember them from when they were on the road. But other people are much younger, born longer after the cars had stopped being made. It's pretty impressive, I think, that 50 years after the cars were made they're still immediately recognizable to a lot of people. Anyway, you all probably knew this already, but it surprised me.

Might be right. Here's another one, of the same car. Looks like a sunny day, or at least there's a real shadow.

To be clear, I wasn't sure if what i saw was a painted wheel ring; it just looked possible. See, for example, this photo of a 1201 phaeton. Looks like there's a wheel ring there, but it's painted the body color. Alternativelty, maybe that's just the usual wheel and I'm looking at the picture incorrectly.

I was talking about the chrome wheel trim rings like these. My '35 did come with wheel covers, but I took them off because I much prefer the look of the wire wheels. That's part of the reason I'm interested in the wheel rings; the wire wheels are kind of cruddy after being undernearth the wheel covers for so long. (I actually kept the wheel covers on the sidemounts for now, as I think they look great there, but I might take those off, too.)

Looking at the Michigan State archives of the 1935 Senior cars, it seems like most of the cars don't have them (especially closed models) but some of the rarer models (open cars, town cars, etc.) do. It also looks like some cars have wheel trim rings that are not chrome, but it's hard to tell from the photos. I think i like the look better without them, but then my wheels are in pretty lousy cosmetic shape so I think the rings could dress them up a bit without a lot of cosmetic work. I'll have to think about that one.