zephyrdave
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Posts posted by zephyrdave
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I spoke too soon about the rest of the engine checking out OK. I decided to pull the heads. Check out that block resurfacing job or lack there of. You can see where coolant had leaked into cylinder and coolant stain on piston. This is disgusting. Monkeys could have done a better job on this engine. This company has been around since at least the 50's so it's not how long you are in business, it's the people you have employed. The business was started by the current owner's father. I guess the son doesn't give a sh....Also, I think all this staying at home stuff is making me more angry than usual. This is not even my engine, I just don't like seeing a friend getting ripped off.
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Thanks everyone!
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Thanks guys for the input. One other 37 owner, who I talked to went to his garage and also said his rods are under the engine mount just as in DizzyDales pic. So I guess that's where they are although it looks strange to me. They must have made a mistake on the assembly line, yah that's it, they made a mistake. OK, back to my closet while I self isolate.
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My 39 has those crank plugs, they were removed and the crank cleaned, plugs replaced. Fortunately, the guy that did my engine was a good experienced mechanic with an amazingly equipped machine shop. Unfortunately, he went out of business before my friend was ready to have his engine done.(long story). The plugs in his crank look like they haven't been touched.
The rest of the engine checked out OK. As for the pic looking into pump hole, you have to look real closely and you can see the edge of the gear teeth towards the rear of the hole. They are now in the center of the hole.
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If anyone has a 37, and you could take a look at how the rod is mounted, I would really appreciate it.
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Thanks to everyone for your advice.
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The cover and gear were installed by the engine machine shop who "rebuilt" the engine. . The owner never touched the engine. They also painted the engine after it was assembled, including the aluminum heads. Owner told them he specified don't paint the heads. They pulled the heads to remove the paint and reinstalled the heads using the same gaskets and also had never used thread sealer on the studs. There was coolant coming out the top of the studs and around the perimeter of the heads like crazy. I made some calls and found out that the person with experience in the shop had quit just before this engine was worked on. They also forgot to install the bolt and thick washer that hold the crank pulley on. I also had to rebuild the carb that they said they rebuilt. My friend paid a lot of money for this "rebuild". Anybody know of a good lawyer?
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Problem solved! Pulled engine. Removed flywheel and then gear cover. Gear had been installed backwards by the engine shop. It was also jammed up against a cast knob on the cover. I removed idler gear and re-installed on the shaft properly. There is now room between the gear and cover, and the gear will now engage with the other gears.
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Getting ready to pull engine and was looking at engine braces that hold engine in position on mounts. Have these been installed correctly in the past? Should they be as is, under the engine mounting foot or should they be on top of the foot? Almost seems engine is propped up too high, putting back of engine close to firewall.
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Yes, got that.
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Before I take the engine out, I took the pump off and looked up the hole. I noticed that the idler gear did not seem to be in the right place, it looks like it is off to one side of the hole towards the rear of the engine. I turned the engine over by hand and the idler gear did not move. Went to the internet of course to research. Found a V8 ford forum where someone had a new rebuild and no oil pressure. They took the engine out and found that the idler gear was installed upside down so no gear engagement. I'm sure that's what's going on here. If you can see in the pic the gear is off to one side. I think ford V8 and lincoln V12 have a similar setup. The idler gear has a "snout" on one side. If it is installed upside down, it puts the gear out of alignment with the other gears.
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The owner will be talking to the engine company. I suspect they will probably say bring the engine in, so that means I will have to pull the engine and get it to them. Like I said, the engine fires up and runs fine.
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Yes, the best place to be for the next while, in the garage alone.
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The center gear is there, I can see it when I remove the pump. One thing I do know is, this is creates a lot more work.
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I had the engine fired up for 20 seconds before I found the no oil pressure problem. Engine runs fine. Pump gear is pressed onto camshaft, they are not just one piece. I believe the early v12 oil pump gear was pressed onto a round shaft at the end of the cam. Later engines went to D shaped shaft. I suspect gear is spinning on shaft or broken teeth.
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I used one from Newport Engineering on my 38. Rebuilt originals are on ebay. Got a rebuilt one for a 37 on ebay, works good.
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Installed a new M19 instead of M15 just because I thought it would be the correct pump for a rebuilt engine. Installed pump without pickup tube so I can see the pump gears. Marked one gear lobe with sharpie. Turned engine by hand and then looked at the gear lobe. It had not moved! Turned engine by hand 3 more times, still no gear movement detected! PUMP IS NOT TURNING. I guess that's why no pressure. Maybe gear on cam is slipping. Now the engine will have to be removed because this engine rebuild company didn't do their job properly. What a PITA
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Called my friend (car owner), told him about the tube. He routed through paper work he has and came up with this article by Jake. Now we know! Also bent the pickup tube because pickup was on bottom of pan. Called engine rebuilder again today and told them when I removed the oil plug , it was bone dry. They finally admitted that they never tested engine for oil pressure after saying they did. Also, the tube (that is missing) from the rear main bearing cap directs oil from slinger to crankcase. Not absolutely necessary if crankcase seal is good.
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This is an M15 pump. It does have a pickup. Some say M19 would be better. The tube from the rear main is missing. Does this matter? I,ll pull the pump and inspect tomorrow.
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With some difficulty (wishbone) I got the oil pan off and found what looks like an M15 pump and piece of copper tube that looks like it might go up to rear of cam somewhere and open at bottom end? Looks like there is enough clearance from pickup to pan. Have not removed pump yet, but should the M15 be an M19 instead? What is the copper tube?
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Thanks to all that have given advice. Next step, start taking things apart to see what I can find.
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I found these two pieces in a box of bolts and things returned by the builder with the engine. Looks like a restrictor fitting and pressure regulator. I'm thinking the restricted end screws into engine port and the flare fitting end goes to filter. I don't know what the bolt on the fitting is for? I hope the regulator was removed because it was replaced. I called the company that rebuilt the motor a while ago and asked if they ever tested this motor. He said they put engines on a stand and the engine is spun by an electric motor to test oil pressure. After I was told that, I pulled the crankcase plug and found it bone dry. How can they test with no oil or maybe I'm missing something.
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Excellent point! I will watch for this when I pull the pan. The car owner (a friend of mine), said he gave the builder a new pump for the rebuild.
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Thanks for the info. Looks like it's time to drop the pan.
Knobsoup stuff
in Lincoln & Zephyr
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Thought of doing that with a Lincoln penny of the same year as my car.