[Hello]

Thank you for pointing out that the Nethercutt Collection has what I call the two triple crowns of American car collecting: Packard-Peerless-Pierce Arrow & Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg. Since my last post, I have read that one other museum may have all six as well: the Northeast Classic Car Museum in Norwich, NY.

I guess that wouldn't be a bad addition to have a Peerless in the ACD Museum. I would reccommend a 1929 "8-125" Sedan like the one advertised on antiquecar.com until a few months ago. ---Jeff

[Hello]

Dear Chris,

I just finished looking at the Duesenberg Registry and enjoyed seeing your work. I have a question: are there any museums that have both an Auburn, a Cord, and a Duesenberg AND a Packard, a Peerless, and a Pierce-Arrow that you know of? How about private collections? I can't think of any, but wouldn't be surprised if there were.

I have only seen one Duesenberg: J214 at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum. I saw this Phaeton Royale in Wetaskiwin, Alberta this March while attending an antique car restoration workshop. The current location isn't noted on your database, but you did say that you were updating it. The R-A-M is just south of Edmonton, Alberta and was built in 1992. It's a Provincial transportation museum with one large and two very large buildings housing aircraft; ag machinery; and cars & trucks. Total of the latter is about 370, ranging from "as-found" to restored. The Duesenberg is restored, has been there several years now, and is one of their key exhibits.

I don't own one, but I'm a member of the Peerless Motor Car Club. I spend a lot of time doing online research on the Peerless Company. We just got our own Forum on the AACA website, in case you hadn't seen it.

---Jeff

[Cord replica info.]

Dear PackardV8,

I just looked at your post -- but the link to the e-bay sale was expired. I'm going to assume the car for sale was one of the "Cord Royale" replicas w/ Chrysler engines. In 1969, my dad and I went to see one when they had just come out, at Royal Motors in Alexandria, VA, I believe. I still have the ad I saved about it from the Post. The car had a yellow fiberglass body, a 440 V-8, AC, and an automatic. I was just a teenager, but the car looked great to me, even though I knew it was just a replica of something greater and earlier.

The dealer, who sold Chrysler/Plymouth, who was just selling them on the side, not building them. We didn't drive it, but it looked pretty fast. There was no way the salesman was going to let a sixteen-year-old still enrolled in driver's-ed take it for a spin.

[Ok Peerless guys, check this out...]

I really don't know what it is. Sounds like a case for Horseless Carriage Club or Veteran Motor Car Club members. I bet Brass Era expert Don Meyer would know. He buys and sells London-to-Brighton-Run automobiles.

The round cowl resembles the 1907 Franklin, but it had a round hood, too. The 1913 Locomobile and Oldsmobile sixes have similar hoods. I found a picture of a 1913 Peerless with Right Hand Drive and a hood like that, but it had electric lights. ---Jeff

[Ok Peerless guys, check this out...]

Wayne

I looked at the photo but the car doesn't ring a bell with me. The round cowl and long hood are really distinctive. My grandpa's 1910 Buick raceabout had a similar radiator, RHD, and "outboard" control levers, but this looks different. I'll have to get out some books.

-Jeff

[Peerlece]

Brockway,

Thank you for the data on the Peerless in Finland. Is the "Nuo mainiot ajoneuvot" book a catalog of many old cars in your country, or is it a story about one family and their cars, perhaps. Nice to hear that the car was restored and which model it is. Do tell me if you hear of any more Peerless news from Europe. Maybe there are some museums in Europe which have interesting cars.

Jeff

[VERY Rough Model A Ford Roadster SHOW CAR]

Interesting discussion.

I was at a class on antique auto restoration at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum this year and heard something interesting about judging. Someone got ahold of a Model T called the "Rip van Winkle Car". To make a long story short, it had original EVERYTHING except water, gas and oil; and maybe 30 or 40 miles on it. It was taken by the new ( second ) owner to a car show, and received a number of deductions. Not just that the totally original paint and other materials had some aging.

Apparently, as the car went down the assembly line, the guy on the left would install a part that was, in fact, different than what was being installed on the right and a number of things that should have matched didn't. Just little things like door handles and trim. A case of parts changing from time to time and the left hand literally not knowing what the right hand was doing. I wondered if anyone else has heard of something like that.

-----Jeff

[Peerless 1925 Cars]

Wayne,

Thanks for looking at the 9/26/00 post and getting the idea for a Peerless forum. Some other old posts on-subject are 10/12/01 [1921 Peerless 8-56 4-door from "Axel" in Norway][CCCA Gen.], 6/02/00 [1928 Peerless in Finland][AACA Tech.Q.], and 5/17/00 [8-69 Peerless from "Joe"][AACA Tech.Q]. There are many more back there in the "archives" about Peerless, but these old ones are really striking.

I'm glad you like the quiz. I haven't been to all of the museums listed -- including the Roaring 20's Antique Car Museum in Hood -- but I did go to high school in the sleepy little hamlet of McLean, VA! The other Roaring 20's Museum is in Brooten, MN; The Peterson is in Los Angeles; the Harold E. LeMay Museum is in Tacoma, WA; and in NE, it's the Harold Warp Pioneer Village museum, technically. A little free press for museums is good, don't you think?

--Jeff

[Peerless 1925 Cars]

TEST TODAY ON PEERLESS & MUSEUMS

* * * * * * * *

It's great to see a Peerless Motor Car Company automotive forum on the AACA web-site...and right next to Pierce-Arrow!

As I was telling the unknown contributor to the forum seven year's past who started this thread, there are Peerless cars around. It is difficult to say just how many of a particular make, model or year are still here. A case in point is museums.

There are hundreds that have autos in their collections, but how would the above-mentioned forum writer find out how many museums have 4-door, 5-passenger 1925 Peerlesses? All of these museums would have to share their data, and then you have all of the private owners of old cars. That leaves us with the old-fashioned way: simple personal experience, reading, and networking with friends. Here's a quiz to test your personal knowledge of Peerless & Museums:

HERE IS A LIST OF 16 MUSEUMS...

8 OF THEM HAVE ONE OR MORE PEERLESS VEHICLES,

8 OF THEM DON'T {to the best of my knowledge}:

1. Boothbay Railway Village Boothbay, ME

2. Bovington Tank Museum U.K.

3. Cussler Classic Car Museum Arvada, CO

4. J & R Vintage Auto Museum Rio Rancho, NM

5. LeMay Collection State of Washington

6. McCone County Historical Museum Circle, MT

7. Montana Auto Museum Deer Lodge, MT

8. National Road-Zane Grey Museum Norwich, OH

9. Nethercutt Collection San Sylmar, CA

10.Peterson Automotive Museum California

11.Pioneer Auto Show Murdo, SD

12.Pioneer Village Minden, NE

13.Reynolds-Alberta Museum Canada

14.Roaring 20's Auto Museum Minnesota

15.Roaring 20's Museum Hood, VA

16.Sandstone Heritage Trust Republic of South Africa

I will write back with the answers after October 1st.

Admittedly, these museums are scattered all over the countryside, but I didn't want to favor just one region. My apologies for not having complete data for each museum or having space to describe them better. Anyone trying to answer this quiz is doing it for their own entertainment -- there is no prize. The idea is to see if anyone can look at a random list of museums and tell, from memory, which ones have a particular car in them. It may be that some of the eight "have not" museums actually DO have Peerless cars or trucks. After looking at seven of their public web-sites and visiting four of them in person, however, I wasn't able to find any.

As Bryan said, Peerless is a great car. I find them to be somewhat mysterious as well as interesting. About 107,000 Peerlesses were built -- but they are now approximately as rare as a Duesenberg and rarer than both of their rivals Packard and Pierce-Arrow. The marque was a pioneer among American cars in the use of driveshafts in 1902, had an 824.8 cu. in. six in 1914, a V-8 in 1916 and experimented with a V-16 in 1931.

Good luck on the quiz!!!

--- Jeff Brown

[Peerless 1925 Cars]

Hello Peerless owner.

Yes, there are other Peerless cars around! It is difficult to document the true number -- I would estimate somewhere beween 200 and 600. Finding the Holy Grail would almost be easier, since there is only one to look for(!). Four 1925's are left that I know of.

I realize that it has been a long time since you posted this, but look up the peerlessmotorcar.com website and use the Guest Book feature to find something about the Peerless Registry if you read this.

Jeff Brown, Peerless Motor Car Club member

[Peerlece]

Dear Peerless owner in Finland,

I just read your message on the AACA Forum today. Even though it has been 7 years since you left this message,I am happy to read about your 1928 Peerless. Is it a Model 6-60, 6-81, 6-90, or 8-69?

I am a member of the Peerless Motorcar Club, which you could see at: peerlessmotorcar.com .I am a new member of the Club but have done lots of reading about Peerless cars. I have found two photos online of Peerless cars in Finland. One was a taxicab and the other was a 1930 Sedan. I am glad to hear that at least 1 Peerless survived the War in your country. How did that happen? Please send a message to me via the Peerless Club website or this forum and I will send you info on Peerless cars. It is difficult to tell how many cars still exist. About 107,000 cars and trucks were built. Estimates of remaining vehicles range from 35 to 510...making the Peerless somewhat mysterious, but definitely rare. Personally, I believe that there may be more than that. My own research on the internet has yielded data on many Peerlesses in 12 countries.

J. Melland Brown, Salmon, Idaho, USA

[1910 Buick Speedster]

I made a similar inquiry in the BCA General forum a few weeks ago, and thought I'd try the

pre-war forum also.

My Grandfather, Glenn Brown of Hutchinson, Kansas had a 1910 Buick built as a raceabout or

speedster for about 50 years. When he died in 1990, the car was sold at an auction to a Texan. I don't

remember his name (said he had "the biggest antique motorcycle collection in the country" ).

Engine serial # was: 9864. If anyone knows where it wound up, please send word.

Jeff

[In need of restoration]

Good point about t.v. shows that send the parts out Monday and have

them come back Tuesday. I sent North One Television, Ltd. {in London}

3 suggestions for cars to restore. Haven't heard from them yet, but

am sure they need to sort through entries .

Jeff

[National? No pic yet, but...]

Found my book: The Gasoline Auto, by Hobbs, Elliot, Consoliver, 1919, Mcgraw-Hill.

They say National used 4's 1912-13, 6's 1914-20 and 12's 1916-19. My mistake--no 8's.

Jeff

[National? No pic yet, but...]

There is a restored National on display at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Canada.

I have an old college textbook, printed about 1919, that has a photo of a National

V-8 motor. Interestingly enough, the one in Alberta has a V-12! The second one

was from the early 20's. ---Jeff

[Buick Engine Serial Numbers]

Dear Dave:

Thank you for the speedy reply to my questions about the

"ought-nine" Buick.... which turns out to be a lot more "1910-ish" than

"ought-nine-ish"(!). My grandfather said he found it in a field with a

tree growing up through part of the frame, so maybe the documentation

was a little sketchy when he acquired it.

Thanks, Jeff

[Buick Engine Serial Numbers]

My Grandfather had an older Buick with a low serial number and a

"factory delete" radiator fan assembly for higher performance. Maybe

there's someone out there who knows the Buick stats well and can tell

me something about the car.

The car is a 1909 Buick, possibly a model 16 or 17. My Grandpa found it

in the 30's, restored it, and had it until he died in 1990. It would

be interesting to know who the original owner was and where it is now.

The engine ser. # is 9864. The auto was RHD, of course, had a big

cylindrical gas tank right behind the driver and passenger seats, and

had a four cast in two separate blocks. It is very similar to Buicks

raced at Indianapolis in the 1909-1911 era.

--- Jeff

[Straight eight firing order]

Sounds like a great car, and really rare! Have you got the Chysler motor running yet?

I'm a Peerless Club member (interested in the make -- don't have one yet) and wondered

if your car started life as a straight 6 or a straight 8. I suppose it's

possible that the last owner didn't give you much info on its earlier years.

--- Jeff

[Knott's Berry Farm Fire >Stanley Steamer]

I never heard about that, but I remember going to Knott's Berry Farm to see a car

show with my dad, and seeing Ephram Zimbalist Jr.'s 1895 Duryea about 1959.