scott12180
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Posts posted by scott12180
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Be aware, though, that if you use a modern 85W-140, it may run out of the seals on the back of the transmission or out the axles on the rear end. Watch for that, and if it's excessive, just stop and drain it then. Refill with something thicker. I use Shell Valada 680 with about 25% Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Seems to work for me.
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As a follow up, the Series 10 instruction manual recommends a 600W steam cylinder oil for both the transmission and differential (in summer use). Franklin Service Bulletin 567 from March 1930 (attached) also recommends 600W steam cylinder oil for both Series 10, 11, 12 and the 130 transmissions. Same for the differential except that Series 11 recommends a lead-based lubricant. I don't know why.
From what I can determine, the closest thing to 600W steam cylinder oil today is the Shall Omala 680 (the new name for Shell Valvata J 680).
As a friend privately pointed out, it's always best to use what Franklin recommended unless modern technology has clearly given us something better, like using Mobile 1 for the valves.
--Scott
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So, I drained the Trans and Diff, and what I see looks pretty yucky.
Is it recommended or possible to flush with something before refilling?
~Ed.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]264548[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]264549[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]264547[/ATTACH]
The oil from the transmission and differential will probably be quite dark to begin with since what is there is probably not modern gear oil.
Dunk your fingers into each and see if you feel anything like metal bits or whatever. Run your fingers along the bottom of the pan, too. That's all assuming that you drained each into a clean container, which is what it looks like from here. Also look for shiny bits of metal, although there will always be some metal wear in the drained oil.
What I'd do is make sure it all drains thoroughly --- let it drip for a few days --- then refill with an appropriate gear oil. This time, perhaps you could fill it with a cheap 85W-140, run the car for a few dozen miles, then drain it again. See what it looks like. If what comes out is pretty much what you put in, then refill it with whatever you'd like to have in there for the long haul.
Be aware, though, that if you use a modern 85W-140, it may run out of the seals on the back of the transmission or out the axles on the rear end. Watch for that, and if it's excessive, just stop and drain it then. Refill with something thicker. I use Shell Valada 680 with about 25% Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Seems to work for me.
You want the thicker oil in the transmission if needed to allow for smooth shifting.
You want the thicker oil in the transmission if needed to prevent excessive leaks.
You want the thicker oil in the differential if needed to minimize leaking.
But you don't want oil that's too thick as it will not lubricate well. Exxon makes a steam cylinder oil in TK-1000 and TK-1500 viscosities. I think both are too thick. The Shell Valada seems closer to the 600W that was recommended originally.
--Scott Dwyer
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It was recommended to drop the oil pan and clean out any 'gunk'.
I'm curious about the gasket..... Is it reusable, or should I just use a high-temp gasket compound, or something else?
Thanks,
Edwin.
It's best to use a paper gasket coated with a gasket compound. Hylomar original seems to be the best stuff around, although what you can buy at NAPA or any local auto parts store ought to be fine.
Buying a gasket from Jeff is the easiest, but I always make my own. You can buy sheets of gasket paper from an auto parts store or some on-line store like McMaster, I'd imagine.
Roll out the paper and lay the cleaned oil pan over the top so you can trace out the outside perimeter. With scissors cut out the gasket.
To get the inside edge, you can press with your fingers along the inside (keeping the outside edge in place) and the indent you see can be cut out with scissors again.
As for all the holes, holding the gasket in place you can carefully use a small ball-peen hammer to tap on each hole. The edge of the hole in the pan will cut a hole in the gasket. Works pretty good.
You can also use the ball-peen hammer to cut the entire gasket, inside and outside edges as well as holes. Be warned --- you'll probably screw it up the first time ! But it's a good skill to learn because you'll never be dependent on someone else for your gaskets. (Except head gaskets).
--Scott
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Checked craigslist and it was listed a month ago, $45000. Boston Cape & Islands
JB
Buick 1922-6-55 Sport touring
That Pierce has been on the Hemmings website as well for a long time.
The price for the condition seems pretty optimistic to me, considering what else has been available recently.
--Scott
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I consider Pennsylvania friendly to antique cars.
Registration is done once (when you acquire the car)
and is permanent. No inspections are needed.
The problems of inspecting old cars, described in
this thread, show why inspecting seldom-driven
antique cars having systems unfamiliar to the inspectors
is difficult and unnecessary.
Boy I'll say !
Now New York has a computerized system where every car needs to be scanned in to the government computer.
A month ago I brought the 1912 in for its annual inspection, and the government computer couldn't handle something that old ! Said my VIN was invalid or some nonsense. How could it be invalid?? New York DMV issued me the registration on that number. ???
So I had to take time off from work and go down to the DMV office and talk to the DMV Head and County Clerk himself. And he didn't know what to do ! Finally he found out that whoever does the inspection needs to call some "Bureau of Vehicle Harassment" in Albany and they have to walk the inspection guys through how to do it on the computer. What a pain .
I haven't done it yet. Had to fix something and just got the car on the road recently. So I don't know if they will give me an inspection sticker or not. And what am I supposed to do if they refuse? They issued the registration.
And it's all for nothing. NOTHING except to get the state more of our money.
As soon as I can retire, I'm going to defect to a state with less heavy-handed government.
--Scott
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Sorry to say, I've seen lots of dealer 100% mark-ups.
It may be standard practice for some.
Perhaps he had to put a few thousand dollars into a car
to get it ship-shape; but what good does such a dealer
do the hobby? I think all it does is take a car away from
a person with a $19,000 budget.
There is a role for dealers in the hobby but I wish they would be more cognizant of the importance of keeping this a broad based hobby for everyone to enjoy, not just the wealthy and not just the investor. I really lament that the ordinary working family man has been priced out of many aspects of the pre-War hobby. Fortunately, Franklins tend to remain affordable. If we are a "best kept secret", I hope it stays that way.
A dealer's role is very much appreciated by anyone who does not want to go through the trials of selling a car on their own. The marketing, fielding of inquiries, accommodating visits. . . . only to have most turn out to be dead ends. Lots of elderly people just don't want to do that which is why the prospect of selling the car to a dealer for what they think is a reasonable sum is appealing.
I think it is not ethical nor is it healthy for the hobby for dealers to buy a car dirt cheap from an unsuspecting owner, only to turn around and double the price. And hang on to the car in a "for sale" state indefinitely until that price may be met through inflation or sold to another dealer. Cars should be on the road and in the hands of owner-operators. That's how the hobby will remain strong.
The "good dealer", in my opinion, would be someone who sells a car on commission. He might counsel the owner on what he feels the market value of the car is, and tell the owner that whatever the car sells for, the dealer will retain perhaps 10% as his fee for services. Or perhaps there would be a sliding scale of commission based on selling price. That way everyone understands everybody's motives , the owners don't get screwed, the dealer gets a profit and can remain in business, the cars for the most part are kept with the owner until they pass into the hands of the next owner-operator, and the hobby remains strong.
Why this would be good is that perhaps an owner understands the importance of affordable cars being available for ordinary working family men to use and enjoy. Perhaps the owner might be content with a selling price on the low side of the market so long as the next owner is a genuine enthusiast. The commission-dealer would still get his fee and the gratitude of everyone involved for finding a worthy new owner for a beloved car.
I think this is a good business model. I wish we had more dealers who would agree.
--Scott
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Any air cooled car at the Franklin Trek is a welcome sight. Even vintage non-air cooled cars are appreciated.
"The Green" at the college where the Franklins park is rather small. As such, parking there is for the Franklins unless your car is really tiny, like a 110+ year old horseless carriage or an early motorcycle. But it's generally respected that since the Club is for "Franklins and Franklin-era air cooled vehicles", we reserve the prime parking for them. And that includes such notable non-Franklins as the Holmes, the Fox, and others of particular interest.
That said, there's parking around the perimeter of "The Green", there's a parking lot a short block away where lots of people park their trucks and trailers. . . . Bottom line is, yes, please drive the Corvair. And I'm sure that many people will let you drive their Franklins.
--Scott
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Hi Franlin Lovers. I have always admired your drive not trailer attitude and your resistance to restoring a car that is not in need of it.. . . . .
Ashley is interested in obtaining and driving a 1920's era Franklin. But she would like to check one out close, get a ride and possibly drive one. . . . . .
Thought I would give this a shot as the Franklin People have always seemed welcoming. -- Lee
The very best way for anyone to experience a number of different Franklins, whether you are already a Franklin owner or contemplating becoming one, is to attend the Franklin Trek in Cazenovia, New York. Cazenovia is just southwest of Syracuse, so not an unreasonable drive from northern Virginia.
The Trek runs the entire week of August 2nd through 9th this year. Best times to come are probably Sunday the 3rd through Friday the 8th. Saturday the 2nd is arrival, and 9th everyone is packed up to head home.
The Trek is only 3 weeks away, but if you contact the Registrars you can inquire about room availability, especially if you are a first timer and interested in getting a car eventually. There's always a poster board with cars currently for sale, too. We stay right at Cazenovia College and the cost is reasonable for a multi-day package relative to other old car events. I do recommend that anyone new stay for three or four days to get to know people and cars. We are a particularly friendly bunch and always give rides to anyone who wants to jump in, but like anything to do with humans it always take a little time to break the ice and let people get to know you. So stay for a while and have fun.
Contact Susan at
TrekRegistrar@franklincar.org
You can text or call at 781-526-5591
Hope to see you there
--Scott
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Hi All ----
First, does anyone have contact information for Mitchell Manufacturing? I can find no website nor even telephone numbers for them. Any place to buy one seems to be selling Ford kits only.
Second, there are a zillion websites and posts for Mitchell overdrives for Fords. My question is, does Mitchell make different size overdrives? It is physically smaller or larger depending on the car? Is the Model A Ford overdrive smaller than what someone would get for a Packard ?
Thanks --- Scott
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Hi All ----
First, does anyone have contact information for Mitchell Manufacturing? I can find no website nor even telephone numbers for them. Any place to buy one seems to be selling Ford kits only.
Second, there are a zillion websites and posts for Mitchell overdrives for Fords. My question is, does Mitchell make different size overdrives? It is physically smaller or larger depending on the car? Is the Model A Ford overdrive smaller than what someone would get for a Packard ?
I am looking for a small overdrive for a small low powered car, like a Model A, but I want a stand alone unit that does not involve a torque tube mount.
Thanks --- Scott
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Is this event a National event? I do not know a thing about the club but am curious?
Wayne
I don't think there is a steam car club, is there?
I think these guys just organize tours amongst themselves. If you want to join the "club", you buy a steamer.
I do recall that the closest thing to a "club" steam people had was the Stanley Museum in Kingfield, Maine. They published a newsletter a few times a year, but it was about the Stanley Brothers in general, with a heavy dose of steam. The museum owned at least three Stanleys, I think.
There was a major personnel shake-up several years ago when founder Susan Davis departed. Since then I don't know what they are doing, if they are active in the steam cars, or even if the museum continues to exist. Perhaps someone can provide an update.
--Scott
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Hi All ---- In June I'll be going from upstate New York to Hastings, Michigan for the Midwest Meet. We'll tour the Gilmore Museum, among other things. On the way back I'll be bringing a spare hood I bought for the Series 5 in the back of my truck.
Should I drive through Canada to save the miles, or is it such a hassle anymore that I'm better going through Cleveland? I'm also worried about getting back into the US with old car parts in the back of my truck.
Google says the Canada-route through Sarina will save 100 miles and 2 hours.
Thanks -- Scott
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Hi All ---- In June I'll be going from upstate New York to Hastings, Michigan to see the Gilmore Museum, among other things. On the way back I'll be bringing some car parts that I'll pick up in Michigan ---- just a hood for a brass-era car.
Should I drive through Canada to save the miles, or is it such a hassle anymore that I'm better going through Cleveland? I'm also worried about getting back into the US with old car parts in the back of my truck.
Google says the Canada-route through Sarina will save 100 miles and 2 hours.
Thanks -- Scott
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Saw this on eBay. Car in Illinois.
I have nothing to do with the car and do not know the owner, but it looks like a reasonable older restoration on a neat body style.
Whoever buys it, PLEASE drop the pan, clean the sludge and check the bearings before driving it !!
--Scott
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I am putting my 11-A Franklin back together - should have it running soon. On the firewall is mounted a "Luburetor". It has not been connected since I have had the car, but is all original and all there. Were these commonly in stalled on Franklins? Why?
I think it's for upper cylinder lubrication using something like Marvel Mystery Oil, but a photograph would allow better identification.
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if they do ny wouldn't considered it legally registered
In a literal sense, probably, but the point is that out-of-state cars are in any given state all the time. If I move to North Carolina or Minnesota, I think I can keep my NY plates for about as long as I want and same for coming to NY. I mean, college students do that for four years and more.
I think it may be one of those things that it's only illegal if you get caught. But how are you going to get caught? A student who graduated a year ago and is still renting from me has a Wisconsin driver's license but bought a Mini Cooper in NY with NY registration. If he gets pulled over, what law is he breaking? New York issued the registration in full knowledge that he lived in another state!
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Is it possible to register a vehicle --- an antique vehicle --- in another state?
I recall that college atudents who typically have driver's licenses from other states can buy a car and register it in New York, even though they do not actually live in New York. I think all they need is a New York address.
Several states do not have vehicle inspections for antiques, some like North Carolina are exempt if a car is 35 years old or more. So would a state like North Carolina issue a registration for a car when the owner doesn't actually live in North Carolina?
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I have a set of 7.00 x 19 Bedford tires on my 31 Lincoln K. These are NOT the original tires, I believe they were bought new maybe three years ago. The Owner's Manual says 45 psig front and rear but I am a little reluctant to pump them up that high given that I am not sure about the present condition of the tubes. Presently I carry 40 psig front and back, and the car weighs 5500 lbs. I realize that underinflation is at least as dangerous as overinflation here, so my question is, what pressure do you guys carry in your vintage tires, and what would be a lower limit for 7.00 x 19 bias-ply tires on a 5500-lb car?
When I had 32-35 pounds in the 700x21" tires of my 1926 Packard, I noted that the center of the tread wore out at a fast rate, a sure sign of over inflation. Thereafter I ran at about 27 pounds front and rear and the wear pattern was much more uniform. This was on a Phaeton weighing in at about 4300 pounds. Plus I never drove much more than 35-40 mph.
So the best pressure is probably arrived at by similar experiment, erring on the side that underinflated tires will run hotter. So if you drive at highway speeds, better to wear out tires too soon than risk a blowout.
--Scott
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I am under the impression that for older cars without a modern voltage regulator, a conventional wet cell battery is better to use than a OPTIMA battery.
OPTIMA batteries are particularly sensitive to overcharging, whereas old-style lead-acid batteries are more tolerant to overcharging because of the large heat sink of lead and liquid. If your car has only a simple generator cut-out and there is any risk of overcharging depending on your driving habits, an OPTIMA or similar gel-cell battery is not the best choice. . . . In my opinion thus far.
I had a 1926 Packard with which I drove long distances frequently and never drove at night with lights or other accessories on. The car used a conventional lead-acid 6 volt battery. Once after a 300-some mile trip I got home to discover that the caps of the battery had all popped off and the acid boiled out. The battery was not long for this world after that.
I then reduced the charging rate from 10 amps to about 2-3 amps and never had a problem with overcharging or undercharging. Again, considering my driving habits.
My point --- or my question --- is that an OPTIMA battery would not withstand that kind of overcharging or even a fraction of that kind of overcharging without rapid failure or even catastrophic failure. OPTIMA batteries are great but only when there is no risk of overcharging.
Do you guys agree with this? Or am I all wet (pun intended).
--Scott
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I am under the impression that for older cars without a modern voltage regulator, a conventional wet cell battery is better to use than a OPTIMA battery.
OPTIMA batteries are particularly sensitive to overcharging, whereas old-style lead-acid batteries are more tolerant to overcharging because of the large heat sink of lead and liquid. If your car has only a simple generator cut-out and there is any risk of overcharging depending on your driving habits, an OPTIMA or similar gel-cell battery is not the best choice. . . . In my opinion thus far.
I had a 1926 Packard with which I drove long distances frequently and never drove at night with lights or other accessories on. The car used a conventional lead-acid 6 volt battery. Once after a 300-some mile trip I got home to discover that the caps of the battery had all popped off and the acid boiled out. The battery was not long for this world after that.
I then reduced the charging rate from 10 amps to about 2-3 amps and never had a problem with overcharging or undercharging. Again, considering my driving habits.
My point --- or my question --- is that an OPTIMA battery would not withstand that kind of overcharging or even a fraction of that kind of overcharging without rapid failure or even catastrophic failure. OPTIMA batteries are great but only when there is no risk of overcharging.
Do you guys agree with this? Or am I all wet (pun intended).
--Scott
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Three references:
Book, Master of Precision, Henry M. Leland, by Mrs. Wilfred C. Leland with Minnie Dubbs Millbrook, Wayne State University Press, Detroit, 1966 Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 66-10501
http://www.friartuck.x10.mx/Lincoln/lincoln_history/lincoln_history.html
I've had the book Master of Precision sitting on my shelf for many years , all the time reading several biographies of Henry Ford and others. I hesitated on the Master of Precision book because it was written by family members. Such books like that and others written by admirers tend to be "hero worship" oriented and not academically rigorous.
But I finally am reading it now. I like it. So far, it's more factual and not too much of a "rose colored glasses" view. I'm not up to Lincoln yet, though. In the book, suspect in that episode with Henry Ford Leland will be painted in a glowingly innocent light and Ford as the devil incarnate. We'll see. It's hard to believe that Ford could have been so deceptive in his dealings with the Lelands. I wish I knew the whole, true story.
As far as Leland goes, from just about everything I have read about automotive history, there's not a lot of criticism one can level at Leland. Of course he had flaws we we all do, and I wish there were more objective books out there. Like Henry Ford, Leland certainly was a major force in the development of the automobile. Perhaps because he was a genuinely nice guy could be the reason why so little has been written about him.
-Scott
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Just substitute Packard for Ozymandias. . . .
I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: `Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear --
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.'
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Hello! I am a newbee. Where do I go and/or with whom do I connect to learn more about Knox motor cars?
Thank you,
Eric Haartz who owns the Haartz Corporation, makers of convertible top material in Acton, Mass, owns a spectacular original 1910 water-cooled Knox. Perhaps he could send you a photograph or suggest further information.
I do not have a direct contact for Eric, but if you try on their website and indicate that you are interested in Eric's old cars, the message might be forwarded to him.
I'm sure he's a member of the Horseless Carriage Club, and his contact information ought to be there as well.
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Thanks, Scott. I'll be breathing heavily this week, getting the splines to nest. I see what us involved now.
alex
When the splines "nest" properly, you'll know it. You should be able to slide the generator completely in, right up to the crankcase, with no resistance. If you can't, just rotate the generator splines a bit until it goes "klunk" and falls into place.
The problem comes when people think the resistance is normal and they force the generator in. Once you do it, you'll see what I mean. And it is very easy.
--Scott
Overdrive or high speed gears in 1603 Sedan
in Packard
Posted
Hi all ---
I have an opportunity to buy a 1938 1603 Sedan. The car runs and drives (needs TLC) but really could use a higher gear ratio than what's on it --- something like a 4.69.
Has anyone put an overdrive into a car like this? If so, what brand and gear ratios? I figure there's not alot of room under there to mount just any kind of overdrive.
Alternatively, are high speed gears still available now that Phil Bray has passed on?
My Packard experience has been with 1920's cars, so this would be "modern" to me. :-)
Thanks -- Scott