Twitch
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Posts posted by Twitch
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A clapped our 69 Plymouth probably woulda been wholesaled out at $1-1,500 in 1971 when it was replaced.
There's little margin to work with. Kanters lists the 440 deluxe rebuild kit at $1,680. Another $230 for Torqueflite kit. This is saying you have the skill to rebuilt trannies and big blocks in your garage. Rebuilt 440s can be found for $15-1,600 plus freight though. If you're lucky the chrome can be polished to good enough for a driver but how much rust began and accumulated during the time it was in the road and how is it after 30 years of festering? Those big bumpers are gonna cost about $4-500 each if they do need chrome though. Can't do that at home
Is it going to be restored as a police cruiser with lights insignia and all that? Either way body and paint required. More for police car work plus how much for correct light bar of the era.
I'd sure want to get the interior done to be sure of clearing out critters' nests and rat poop Hanta virus fixings. I'm impressed if you all can do body, paint plus upholstery at home.
I reckon you could come up with a "fair" driver but not a "high retail" car.
Or, what the hell, just git it running and have a Blues Brothers look! At any rate a thoroughly used police vehicle will never be as good a base as a lightly used, personally owned sedan to build.
My point is that 30 years ago we pretty well knew that a GTX or Roadrunner was THE 69 Plymouth to have then or to lay away for 30 years. They were cool then and are very cool now. If one is going to allow free room and board for a car for 3 decades he shoulda made it for at least what was a cool car.
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Maybe he coulda made money if he'd bless each car personally!!
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http://www.oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Crosley/ scroll down 3/4ths to the King Midgets!!!
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Performance and luxury- hence my Eldorado Touring Coupe.
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palosfv3- well worth the effort. Thanks for saving a truly rare vehicle.
As a kid in the 50s-early 60s in St. Louis there was an exotic car purveyor that had Ferraris, Maseratis, Aston Martins and usually quite a few Facels. I found them alltogether quite ugly by comparison to the Italian coachwork builders but it grows on you and is so distinctive it can't be mistakened for anything else.
Take some more pix when she is outside in some pretty surroundings!
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I dunno ex98th- a guy has a 69 Plymouth that by 1979 was not unusual, sought after, rare or exotic and then sits on it for 30 years as Zonda mentions. That is tantamount to attempting to forecast what car will be popular, valuable or hard to find in the future out of all the mass produced cars.
That's like us today parking a worn out 1999 Taurus and willing it to escalate in value knowing it will need an engine rebuild in 2038. Wonder what that will cost in 30 years.
Matt has it right- stick a few bucks in an account that bears interest and in 30 years you could buy whatever car you want.
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These auctions are just another manifestation of programers grabbing at "something" to fill time slots that just maybe will receive some viewership to justify sponsor's money. It's the same with the big networks. Throw enough on the wall and some will stick. And anything that is remotely "reality" must be good, right?
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Gawd, 48 Lincoln, it came to a head when I heard the strains of "Giddyap, giddyap 409" in a new Impala commercial which was an unintentional parody of itself. Here's the average, blend-in 4 door sedan with probably some 210CID V-6 subconciously telling you that it's 1962 again in song. What a sham. What a farce.
I remember the short-lived GTO retread. It looked like a Mitsubishi for crissake! No attempt to even look American.
Same do-do with "the Hemi." Today's Hemi ain't nothing like the original 426.
Kill me.
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Hey I dunno know if they still make it cause I've been away from cold weather regions many decades, but remember the eyther in a spray can they had for cars with carbs? When it was cold it helped with a more volitile mixture in the carb intake. Do they still make that? If so it would be useful product for outta gas and hard starting.
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Yeah well I started the topic and don't care if it wanders because conversations in real life wander also.
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What a freakin wacko and destroyer of automobilia. Why would anyone sit for 30 years on a totally average Plymouth of which zillions were made? If it's an old patrol car and was sold to the public you know it was crapped out. Even with the 375HP 440 and A/C it's worth only $5,500 average and $8,400 in primo condition.
THIS is what is the matter with the peripheral hobby car scene. Time and time again we hear of uninformed dorks with more rare cars than this sitting on them as they degrade back to iron oxide with the warped idea that their value will be astounding in decayed condition and not restored.
Get rid of the vehicle if you don't SERIOUSLY plan to refurbish it in the next 5 years or less. Cut your losses amd move on. These jamokes can't even be bothered with the simpliest maintence such as starting the thing occassionally.
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Cosmoline is used by armouries to coat the barrel and moving parts of firearms for storage or shipment. Smearing it on the outside of the body and not every equal inch of the inside is just useless as rust will begin where there is least resistnce.
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I let go of a 4 dr. HT 98 in this exact color to have the scourge of the planet- Satan's own piece of crap Limey Triumph TR-3 which broke something every week. That's the car I regret not keeping the most.
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Ex98th- yeah the guy actually has his dream car which is a 64 Galaxie2 dr. HT. It's all finished. He just thought the 57 would be worth it as a project that ain't gonna take 10 years to complete and just wants another car for cruise ins.
I'll go one farther regarding at least 4 dr. HTs. They actually look better than the same model 2 dr. HT on the late 50s-60s designs. The length of the basic design HAS to take into account 2 and 4 doors in the model line for the same chassis and interchangability of certain body parts.
Many designs look better in proprotion as 4 dr. HTs than as 2 dr. HTs!
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Oh I thought the $159,000 was the figure. THAT is way high.
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Zonda you have a grasp on it all real well. I like that you can appreciate 2 dr. HTs in vintage cars all the while we've been geting force fed 4 dr. sedans for 25 years with a few coupes.
As we talk about a stigma of the 4 dr. vintage sedan today and things like Tauruses as classics in 25 more years, I see this-
besides the really old 38 Buicks that will still be around, danged near everything from the 90s on will be 4 dr. sedans! What are Tauruses anyhow? If there is any stigma it will lessen but HTs will still be rare.
I read somewhere a statement to the effect that HTs were tried and seen as lacking and sedans became the popular layout. I've never stopped loving HTs but can't believe that people actually prefered sedans from the 60s on.
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Sorry but that's way above market by any current collectable appraisal entity whether they're in it to own or sell later. It is by no means "well below market" as you mention originally.
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Poci1957 anyone who collects anything usually gets the question from curious onlookers of "how much is it worth," whether its Barbies or beer cans. It's the only thing most people can relate to if they have no idea of rarity or uniqueness. I think like you and when I see some guy who collects like Batman toys or beer steins I never think of the evaluation, just that the guy's having fun!
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I agree with Mr. Pushbutton. Leave it to the junkyard dog. Why do some people think it is so imperative to spend what certainly would be far more than any worth the car has now, or in the foreseeable future.
The car is not associated with any significant event in history nor was it owned by any famed persona.
I recall seeing one of the Chip Foose car builds of some schmuck's 60s something Corvette. The fiberglass was in such horrible shape it took 440 man hours to bring it back into useable shape. At just $50 an hour that's $22,000! Would have been simplier to use repro parts.
Point is it's fine if there's a commercial enterprise paying for this kind of stuff but to what limit and to what end? We see obscene amounts bid on not real special cars at auctions. But who would approve what would probably end up being $200-300,000 to create nothing more than an oddity?
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I figure you mean cars you'd want to own for the car not for its value-
57 Olds 98 4 dr. HT
Golden Hawk- 57 but almost any year
49-51 Hudson
49-51 Studebaker
40 Ford Deluxe
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A nice cross section of logic chaps! The other site has a few hard car car people but mostly vintage "other stuff" collectors and fans.
The guy wondering if the car was worth 2K wants a vehicle he can make nice enough to use for cruise-ins. Sure I see 4 dr. 57s till I'm sick at amateur auto functions.
The chrome is probably good enough that it would buff up enough to be useable on a driver. The car was running when parked so it is in a general sense roadworthy once the engine is restarted and brakes gone through. Interior needs complete work. Of course it needs paint.
My point is I can't see him investing the required money to make a decent little cruiser and losing out later.
While my friends took an in-the-family-since-new Bel Air 4 dr. and spent 12K on it this guy may not even spend that much. My friend's car spent every night of its life in a garage and had no rust- NO rust. I talked to a guy at a cruise in with a similar car who thought it was worth fixing up.
They put a 350 in place of the 283 and will rebuild that later. The factory air works once again! Interior was done with one of the accurate repro kits and all the emblems were replaced and chrome re-done. There was no reason to remove the body from the chassis. And no where does it say that a "High retail" or "#1 car" require such labor to command high appraisal.
Sure the stainless repro rear fender sweeps cost my friend $485 each but the guy thinking about the 2K may use his as is.
If it was a 2 dr. HT in this shape for 2K there'd be no question at being worth it. But since most all those are long gone or people know that unrestored they're worth at least 12-13K this car ain't bad.
It is worth about 4.5K in the guides in this shape so 2 grand isn't much. And perhaps he can get it for even less.
Anyhow I thought the topic would be worth some virtual ink in discussion since I feel it's a bit elitist to tell the guy that the car is worthless unless it's a HT or convertible. Tell that to the folks with Hudsons, Studebakers, Lincolns, Nashs and Kaisers.
And unless something weird happens tri 5 Chevies will continue to escalate in value- the HTs taking the sedans with them.
All the guy wonders is if he can come out with a decent car for cruise-ins without spending more than it is worth- that's 17K for "average retail" NADA 28K for "high retail." I figure in 5 more years his average car will be in the high 20Ks while convertibles will be headed to a quarter million. Can't see why for 15K plus purchase he can't make a decent cruiser.
But if this guy or anyone put more into any car is technically worth at the moment that's prety universal. It's not as though no has ever done that because they wanted a certain car, huh?
As a guy with a 51 Chevy 4 dr. said, "you take what you can get." He admits being biased cause he is restoring his 4 dr.
I wouldn't care if a Stude, Hudson or whatever was a 4 door. I figured at this point in time whatever you can find is fortunate.
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Check out what the appraisers look at--
See especially Originality: and regards to "upgrading" with stock outward appearance and Street Rods:
"Collector Car Market Review
IMPORTANT PRICING CONSIDERATIONS
Pricing in CCMR is derived from many different sources in the North American market. Many factors can affect the value of an older vehicle. Some guidelines:
Pricing sources: Auctions, sales reports, Value-Track® database, classifieds and the general market (contacts, shows, etc.).
Regional factors: There are some minor regional differences in prices, mostly for vehicles under $20,000 in value. Prices tend to be highest in the northeast and on the west coast. Very expensive cars operate in a global market.
Show cars: Perfect cars are pretty rare. These vehicles have been treated to a very expensive concours quality, frame-off, no expensed spared, nut & bolt restoration and do not get driven. They command higher prices than CCMR's standard #1 value.
Originality: All pricing assumes original, numbers matching engine. Deductions vary for engine swaps and can (but not always) be substantial -- be careful! Clean, totally original cars usually carry a premium relative to equivalent published prices. Original documentation is a big plus, especially on muscle cars. Having said that, there is a trend towards "upgrading" collector cars to make them drive and perform better than when they were new while retaining stock appearance. These vehicles generally suffer no value loss and in fact we have seen plenty of instances where they can bring more than a pure stock example.
High Option Vehicles: Car & trucks that are highly optioned and/or accessorized with items such as visors, continental kits, power seats, tilt wheel, etc. usually command a premium. Figure an extra 10% or so depending on equipment.
Imports: Pricing for imported cars is for US spec., left-hand drive unless not available in that configuration. Right-hand drive carries a price penalty on most cars, especially later models. Later standard-bodied RHD Rolls-Royce and Bentley models are particularly difficult to sell in the States.
Trucks: Small departures from originality do not affect the value of trucks as it does cars. Engine swaps or upgrades, mild customization in the form of wheels, tires, and accessories can enhance value. Make sure you use the Truck Equipment Table
Street Rods: Due to varying degrees of quality, parts, workmanship, etc., these are extremely difficult to accurately estimate market value. Many rods reflect the specific likes of the owner, and these don't always translate well to potential buyers. Monetarily, it is usually very difficult to recover the amount of money put into it. They are are strong and vibrant part of the marketplace, however.
About Auction Results: Auctions are just one part of the collector car marketplace. Many collectors get the impression that if they see a 1957 Chevy sell for $70,000 at a major auction, then theirs must be worth that, too. This is a misconception. Auctions often bring above market prices for very nice cars. The reasons are many: there's money in the audience, egos come into play, bidders can get caught in the moment, and sometimes the cars that show up to an auction such as Barrett-Jackson or Pebble Beach are just stunning, one-of-a-kind, mega-buck restorations.
Unfortunately, all is not always as it seems at an auction. Sometimes prices are bid up with "phantom" bidders, cars are declared sold that aren't, and even the bidding can be completely fabricated. In addition, dealers may bid among themselves soley to create the illusion of both interest and high values for specific cars.
This doesn't mean that you should always avoid collector car auctions. Go to a few and observe what goes on, get a feel for how things work and decide for yourself. If you do decide to bid, ask the seller a lot of questions. Sellers with good cars will be more than happy to talk to you.
Finally, our auction editors tend to be conservative in their condition estimates. Take this into consideration when viewing auction results and the sale or bid price."
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I guess some folks back East still drive their collectable in less than sunny weather. I know a lot put their cars to bed for winter too. Sure I know we all just wanna drive 'em and can't wait but 99% of us in Southern California never ever drive in the rain due to the consequences much less ponder the results of salt. Most have replaced the wipers with chrome bullets.
Who drives in weather- wh doesn't? We should do a poll, huh?
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Well Collector Car Market Review lists a #2 car at $29,500 and a #1 at $40,450
NADA which is higher on every car across the board shows "average" for $44,885 and "high retail" at $99,820
Gold Book says "good" $21,000 "excellent" $41,000 and "show" at $71,500.
These cars seem to have experienced 'less than we'd think' interest from buyers and prices never went stratosphere.
Sure a better car to show up in at cruise nite than being the 12th 57 Chevy!
The Facel is done
in General Discussion
Posted
I'd like a Cisitalia or a Pegaso.![smile.gif]()