timecapsule

I appreciate all comments and suggestions. I don't mean this to sound like I'm being critical. But I do like things to make sense to me. You guys have suggested that I use "hard" washers 8 grade. Because soft washers could compress and cause issues. But the shims are brass ???

If I manage to get this engine running. This was my first attempt at rebuilding an updraft carburetor, that of course doesn't have a rebuilt kit available for it. All replaced parts are home made. The only use it will get is at our annual car club car show. I built a run engine stand for it on wheels. I might fire it up for 5 minutes or so at a time a few times throughout the day, just to show people what a 1930 8 cylinder engine looked like and sounded.

"tap sideways with a mallet" that definitely suggest all but one are way too loose.

What do you think the back yard mechanics used back in 1930? My point being, I just want to see if I can get this engine running again just for fun. I'm pretty sure, it won't be put back on the road unless it is thoroughly stripped down, and that;s not going to happen. There are brand new pistons in the engine. It came with left over engine parts. Pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, etc. However there is a significant sign of wear on the crankshaft that is in the engine now. So the state and history of the engine is a bit of a mystery. 1.5-2 th. sounds like I should be able to slide the connecting rod back and forth with some resistance. Not sloppy, but not tight either.

I'm curious why you suggest "hard washers"?

Perhaps, I'm not being clear on what I'm asking. Like I said, the torque setting really isn't the issue. It's a matter of how many shims I should be using. Obviously I won't get any up and down play on the connecting rod. So the only other way of determining if I had the appropriate space between the crankshaft and the connecting rod/cup, would be how easily it slides back and forth. For instance the picture of the shims that I included, one bolt had a stack of shims measuring a total of 1/8" the other stack measured 13/128" That seemed odd to me that they wouldn't be the same. But perhaps, whoever built the engine the last time, ran out of appropriate shims to make it even, and felt the difference was appropriate. Visually they all seem to be around 1/8". But if there shouldn't be any side to side movement then I'll go over all of them except the tight one and reduce the shims. Or if there should be some side to side movement, I'll add some to the one that won't slide from side to side. To accentuate my point, I could stack 1/4" of shims and torque the nuts to 35 ft. lbs, but obviously I would have tons of clearance.

I'm in the process of seeing if I can get my 1930 straight eight running again. But I don't know anything about the history of the engine other than some receipts saying it was rebuilt. But I think it was only partially rebuilt. Anyways while I had the oil pans off, I noticed something unusual with the connecting rods. Some of the cotter pins had come out and were in the top oil pan. I also noticed that the reason was because the hole in the bolt, was past the end of the castle nut. So I decided to put washers under the nuts to build them out so that the turrets of the castle nuts would be on either side of the cotter pin hole. But here's my question. How tight should the connecting rod cap be? There are 3 shim sizes. I suspect that since Castle nuts are used, that the torque setting isn't critical. I'm thinking just tighten the nut as tight as I can get it without farting, and then tighten to the next opening so the cotter pin will slide through. But once that was done, I noticed that some of the rods were looser ( side to side) than others. Some were quite loose, some sort of loose and 2 had no side to side movement at all. I have lots of spare shims in all 3 thicknesses. No mention of it in the manual so is there a rule of thumb used here?

I think I have corrected the clunking issue. I reduced the amount of shims between the differential housing and the pinion housing by .015th. I reduced the shims between the pinion spacer and the smaller bearing in the pinion assembly by .020th. But that part really isn't significant because I have a new bearing in there now and I'm using a different companion flange, then was in there before. I've set the backlash at .010th. and I increased the drag on the pinion nut from 15 in. lbs. to 30 in. lbs. Everything looked and felt good while the differential housing was mounted on an engine stand. I've put maybe 60 miles on the car since the changes and there is no clunking noise. Most of my drives are around 30 minutes before stopping. I drive at all speeds up to about 60 mph. I check the pinion housing and the differential housing with a digital laser temp gauge, and the differential housing is around 100F. and the pinion is around 130F. I'll keep monitoring the temperatures and listening for any strange sounds. Thanks for the help and suggestions guys.

No it hasn't been replaced yet. It determined that it was in good working order by the auto electric people. As was the starter itself and the solenoid.

I agree and I have suggested that we replace it to my friend a few days ago. I gave him the link on Amazon. Plus a down east supplier here in Canada also has one. Half the cost of Amazon, but by the time it lands out west the shipping will bring it up to equal cost of Amazon. My friend isn't concerned about the cost though. He contacted the auto electric place and they said they will gladly replace the starter drive after the holiday break. Even though I would prefer to do the job myself out of curiosity. But it's his call. So in a few days, I'll pull it back out and he'll take it back to the auto electric place to replace the starter drive. But that will take away all the fun. I enjoy discovering why things go wrong as opposed to just having someone else replace components. Merry Christmas to you too

Just taking a break over Christmas time from working on this issue. But I just got a message from my friend that over the last couple days, it has started first time every time, and consecutive times after that. Go figure right. Since it's not acting up right now, that could explain why when the auto electric place had it, they said it worked fine. As mentioned earlier by EmTee, it might not hurt to pull it apart and check the starter drive for anything that might be slightly binding or sticking, when I get back to my friends place for round 2.

The problem I'm having with the flex plate ( ring gear, flywheel) theory is that the sound is the same spinning sound you'd get if you were doing a bench test. So with that in mind, and given the diameter size of the gear on the starter drive. There would have to be at least 3 or 4 teeth completely missing on the flex plate, that same sound. As I mentioned earlier, When I tried to record the sound it took several times (4 or 5) of starting the car successfully before it finally spun out. Also prior to me coming on the scene, he said it would spin out 4 times in a row on average before it would grab and fire up the car. Since I came on the scene and pulled the starter off and on a few times, it usually only spins out once on the first try. Sometimes it's good for 4 or more tries before it spins out. So it seems to be improving. I've never heard it spin out more than once, in the 20 or so times we've tried since I came on the scene. Plus the last time it spun out, I pulled the starter out right after, and the teeth on the ring gear looked fine.

Awww, yes, Now that I can see the colour of you're car better, I realize it is different. My friend's car is called Saddle Mist. Yours is a cool colour too.

The mounting bolts are horizontal. IMO I'm doubting that there is an issue with the ring gear or any clearance issues related to the meshing of the gears. I'm saying that because it "usually" misfires on the first try only. After that it engages just find and the car fires up. Yesterday I wanted to record the sound on my camera, so my friend could email it to the auto electric guys. They asked him to do that so they could hear the sound. Just waiting for a feedback from them. Anyways, of course when I tried to record that misfire, it started first time every time. After numerous tries It finally misfired and spun out.

I thought I had some pictures of it but I can't find them on my computer. I'll get my friend to send me some pics and I'll send them along to you.

not completely, but I did check the pan with a magnet and it was clean. My friends car is a '63 starfire convertible, same colour as yours.

Just to update everyone. The auto electric place actually did a load test on the starter drive. So they are saying everything is in great shape. ( starter, solenoid, starter drive) My friend picked it up ( no charge) I reinstalled it on the car, and the first try it did the same thing. Second try it fired up right away. To me it sounds like the gear on the end of the starter is just spinning indicating that the starter drive is not pushing the gear out to engage with the flywheel. I pulled both wires off the battery and cleaned them and reattached them securely. The battery is reading 12.87 when the kill switch is off. When he turns the ignition on but doesn't try to start the car the voltage slowly drops to maybe 12.37. after 30 seconds or so. The battery is only a couple weeks old. Btw, I also tested the kill switch for continuity and it seems to be in good condition. But just to be sure I disconnected the ground wire at the battery post and ran a heavy duty jumper wire from the negative post to one of the engine bolts. Same results, it spins out on the first try. I hooked my multi-meter to the starter solenoid terminal coming from the battery. Once we got the starter to engage ( second try) it dropped to around 10.65 V. or so as the car was starting up. Then right back up to around 12.7 or so once it started. The gauge drops down to 10. 6 or so so fast for only a split second, as the car is starting, then right back up again, that I can't really read it accurately, but it is always in the 10 and a half volts area as it starts.

This is what I was wondering, about a load on the starter drive in order to test it. I just phoned my friend, who was about to go pick up his starter from the auto electric guys. So he's going to phone them now and get them to replace the starter drive while it is there. I'll also go over all the battery connections as well when he gets back.

I'm one of those old timers, When I heard it spin out, after installing the new solenoid, I even suggested that it might be the "bendex". However the auto electric place he took it too is really well known for their quality work. They spend a lot of their day working on starters and generators and have been in business at the same location since the 40's. So if they say the starter and both old and new solenoids are good, I'm inclined to take their word for it.

The switch you linked to is the one that he has. While I'm back under the car reconnecting the starter I'll look around for where the ground connects to the block as well.

Googling tells me that it might be a battery connection or bad ground. Like I said he just replaced the battery and so I'm assuming he made sure both battery cable ends were clean and well connected. He's kind of meticulous that way. However, he does have a master kill switch coming off the battery. He always flips that switch when he brings the car back in the garage after going for a drive. I'm thinking I should maybe disconnect and bypass that kill switch. There may be a bad connection inside it. I'm wondering if there is a bad connection in that switch, if that might have been the cause of the old battery dying. Maybe it wasn't getting a full charge back from the alternator. Just a thought.

No, it has round holes that match up to one another

I was helping a friend the other day who was having starting issues. He bought a new solenoid and asked if I would install it for him. I had no idea what the issue was at the time but I agreed to do the job. I removed the old starter and solenoid out and replaced the solenoid and reinstalled them back in the car. He tried to fire it up and the starter motor spun out. The second time it engaged and started the car. He said before it took about 4 tries to get the starter to engage and start the car. I pulled off the starter/solenoid again and he took them to an auto electric place to be tested. They said the starter is good and both the old solenoid and the new solenoid were both good. I don't really know too much about the car, but he said he did just replace the battery last week. The wiring at the solenoid was tight and in good condition. I'm dumb as a stick at auto electrics but I'm willing to perform a few tests, but I'm not sure where to start.

Thanks for that info. Since this is my second go round of setting up the rear end, I pretty much did everything you suggested on the first attempt. That being before I found the broken diff. housing half that is on the original differential. So even though I didn't use that assembly, it was a good practice run for this time around. I had actually forgotten about using the in. lb. torque wrench on the big nut to check on the drag. So thanks for the reminder. The last time I did it, I slowly spun it 360 degrees and I had a reading of 15 in. lbs. Regarding your first sentence, I wasn't taking about moving the pinion in and out to set the backlash. I'm just doing that before setting the back lash to get it as properly aligned as possible. By using those large shims. I'm guessing that design of using those large shims between the differential housing casting and the pinion housing casting is to make up for any casting irregularities in the manufacturing. So that the pinion gear is lined up pretty much with the ring gear, before setting the backlash. I went through the "painting" procedure last time so I know how that is done. As for shims on the differential gear and spider gears. I have the original assembly all apart and I didn't see any in it. I have another spare assembly that I think I'll take apart today to see if there are any in it. I'll also check the parts book, but I don't remember seeing any mention in the parts book about shims for any of those gears. It would almost make sense that there would be shims for those gears, but then again, when they are all assembled between the two halves, you really can't see very much of the gears so I don't see how you would know if you had then set accurately, so they were not meshing too loose or too tight.