[1922 Buick new top begins]

David,

    Now I really feel dumb.  Lower on the middle bow, just above the top pivot, are two light gauge washers.  Several of us were wondering what they were for.  They are not very strong and when I went to straighten one on the passenger side, one of the washers broke off.   I asked the owner if he wanted to weld the washer back on.  We didn't see a purpose, and the owner thought they looked out of place and suggested that I grind the others off.  It's a good thing I don't always listen. 

 

The clevis pins for the front bows also had regular cotter pins in them.  I have seen these retaining pins with straps which is what should replace the regular cotter pins so that they can be easily removed and not bent to stay in shape.  Thanks again for the education.          Hugh 

 

[1922 Buick new top begins]

Mark, 

    Your top looks great, and your interior as well.  I am glad that you were stitching your top at the same time that I was, so that we could compare notes.  I too may need to make some specialty hidem so I will follow your notes.  Good suppliers are getting thin.  Once you have a sewing machine, the opportunities find you.  This is top #3.   This is a 1910 Metz.  Talk about a top that really extends past the seat when folded.  Another one in the early stages but if someone follows your notes the process can be applied to the orphan cars as well.  Looking forward to seeing your side curtains.      Hugh

 

[Buick Standard Six - Parts]

Thomas, 

     I have a speedometer that is rebuilt and calibrated.  I will PM you.     Hugh

[New 25 Buick Tourer Owner]

Glenn,

     Welcome to the forum.  That is a good looking Buick.      

 In the future, please make all communications on the "Buick Pre War" website for fastest communications.  I just happened to see this one. 

 

Read through the following link and it will go step by step on making a top.  Start with getting bows and sockets.  Work on getting or making all the hardware and installing it on the car before even thinking about doing the canvas.  There are many small pieces.  This takes you to October 11th.  On November 12th is another link within which has more details on making the canvas top. 

- I have made drawings for every part of a Buick 1925-25 for the entire top assembly.  I may have to email those to you for better clarity. That is, if you are going to make them or try to find them in New Zealand.

- I did recently receive a 1923 model 25 top socket set, but I have not had the time to verify it's application for your car as the body style change was 1924.  The box containing 2 socket assemblies measures 38x8x8 and weighs 28 pounds if you want to look into the cost of shipping them from Lake Jackson TX 77566.  

- You still need 4 wood bows.  I have the drawings for those.

- I need to document the dimensions on these top sockets before they leave me.  

- I do not see the top rest brackets for the corners of the rear seat so you will need to make those as well.  

- Also note that your windshield is different than mine so modifications will need to be made.   

- Below is the cleaned up version of the 1925-25 Buick top sockets.  

Hugh

 

 

[Hardware used on the 1924 Buicks]

Modern zinc plated fasteners have 2 problems.  The head markings need to be filed off, and now the top of the bolt needs replating.  Over time depending on where you live, the zinc plating can have oxidation effects (I see this on the stuff I restored 20 years ago).   

For hex head fasteners (if it is not a high head), I usually use stainless steel.  First I use a hand file and set the bolt in the bench vise to remove the head markings.

- Run it under a 5" wire wheel and it will dull the finish and put minor scratches in it.  It looks like zinc plating.

- Polish it, and it will look like chrome.

Slotted fasteners are getting more difficult to find, and I almost always have to order them.  Bolt Depot, Albany County Fasteners, and Ebay typically have replacements in zinc or stainless or

brass.

  

[1924 Buick Master Series Lever Arm Shocks]

Mark, 

    That is a nice set of shocks and linkages for the right car.  1924 seems a little early.  I thought 1925 was still using Snubbers, and even through 1927.  I saw these single action shocks on a 1925 Buick and I was thinking that was either a 1st year, or these are aftermarket.  Those look to be dual action.    Hugh   

 

[Buick /buffalo wire wheel hubs. 1925/28]

Hi Bob, 

        These brake drums are larger than on my 1925 Standard.  They are 14".

 

I do have a question on the grease cap on the front wheel hub.  This has a screw on cap with a slot too big for a screwdriver, and a smaller screw in the cap that does nothing.  These have a ton of grease packed into the front wheel bearing.  The dust cap won't unscrew because of the hub cap.  It looks like if you tighten it too much, it will force grease into the wheel bearings, or perhaps run into the axle nut.  When I was doing a brake inspection on the opposite side, I noticed that A LOT of wheel bearing grease must have gotten past the wheel seal and it is oozing out between the brake drum and the brake band.  Needless to say this one brake is ineffective.  Do you have any information on this dust cap?  

Thank you,    Hugh

 

 

[Buick /buffalo wire wheel hubs. 1925/28]

Bob,

These are some photos and dimensions of the rear Buick Master Buffalo hubs.  The actual hub to wheel fitting details, you should be able to take from your front hubs.   Hugh

 

 

 

 

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

This is a link to how to fold the top, and how to make a top boot.  The owner of this Buick is not anticipating to fold the top at this time.  The car needs the interior refinished and some mechanical items resolved first.  This car will also need "top rests" which are available thru Myers Early Dodge and made by Vintageandclassicreproduction.com.  Then there are the top rest pads and the leather straps from antiqueautotophardware.com   I did also write instructions on how to make side curtains which is another nice addition to have for the car even if they are time consuming to install.     Hugh

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

Thank you all for the kind words.  I wanted to also include a link to the first top that I did because there are additional details in this document that may benefit someone as they are going thru a top replacement.   I may put some other links in later as well, as a person also has to know how to fold a top (always unsnap the gypsy curtains first), and these tops really should have a boot cover to support the rear glass so that this does not bounce against the spare tire.       

 

 

[Buick /buffalo wire wheel hubs. 1925/28]

Bob, 

I recently put all 4 wheels up on jackstands to check the brakes. Then I finally got the wheel wrench.  The left front wheel was VERY loose, and the right rear is a little loose.  It appears the wheel nut got stuck in the threads and the person thought the wheel was tight.  It was probably 3/16" away from being pulled up tight.  I'm not sure how the spring in the locking nut broke because the wheel nut was out too far, and that prevented the locking nut from going in all the way.  Maybe it was just broken from fatigue from before?   

    

I have the front wheel off.  This was the loosest one of the two.  I need to fix this wheel before I can move to the back. 

The wheel itself looks good.  It has paint on the mating alignment surface so I have scraped that off with a razor blade and just put on a light film of grease.

- There is rust on the base of the hub mating flange.  I scraped this off, and then put a light coat of grease on this rusty section.

- On the edge of the wheel securing nut, you can see where the chrome has been chipped when the spoke ends hit it when the wheel was loose.  The mating flange on the wheel looks good.  Here I cleaned and regreased the threads. 

- The locking cap has a broken wavy spring.  I stole one from the spare tire, but not sure where to find another. 

  I don't know if anyone has any maintenance guide for these wheels.

 

   Hugh

 

[Marvel carb parts]

Those oil filters had pot metal connections that expanded and caused leaks.  I have a 1926 Buick and I plan to put a screw on oil filter to replace that old style cannister which is no longer available.  

 

[Mid 20's Buick wind wing parts]

Matt,  Wow, I had no idea these were Ford model A.  That makes the idea of locating the parts that much easier.  If I can't find the couple of used parts, I will look to order the set because I can't make the parts that I am missing for the price of the set.  I will have to post this to the Model A group.  Thank you for responding.     Hugh

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

Thanks David.   You are a great teacher.

 

I finished installing the hidem last night, but I needed to paint the hidem end caps and install them this morning.  There are 3 bands of hidem to put on the car.   This car desparately needed a top bring it back to its old glory.  

 

Hugh

 

[Mid 20's Buick wind wing parts]

I am missing a couple of wind wing parts for a 1925-27 Buick Master Touring.  These screw onto the studs that are on the windshield stantions. The machine screw is easy, but I am missing 2 pieces to the set.  

 

There are also 2 threaded holes in photo #2, and I am not sure what goes in the second threaded hole.  Thank you,    Hugh

 

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

With all the snaps in place and the window installed, I was finally able to tack and staple the back curtain.  Everything laid into place and lined up.  Because of the stitched bottom of the panel, the base is stapled first, then everything is pulled up.  You stretch the top middle and work to the outsides.  The inner curtain and window straps are tacked first.  This panel is tacked near the top of the rear bow.  I used stainless staples for ease, but drove tacks at the end of the rows.  Nothing like a finely tailored suit!   

This top covering only has 2 snaps on the rear sides. I felt that I should have added these snaps last, as they also locate where the top sits.  I felt if I added them last, I could have fine tuned their location better.  I find it easier to secure the front of the top first, and then tension and staple at the rear, but I was afraid of getting off the marks. so I stapled the back first and then tensioned at the front.  This row of staples is near the rear of the last bow.  I started the tensioning in the middle front and work outward on each side.  

What is left are the 2 front corners.  I had to stop and look at old notes on how these corners are finished.  I start by making a mark on the side of the top.  It 6" back from the front of the first bow.  This is where the hidem will stop.  We are making the front drip edge of the top.  This side fabric is pulled around the front , and slightly up, and the finished edge stops at the top seam.  This is tacked in place and the upper excess fabric is trimmed.  The top side of the fabric is then pulled over and stretched to hide this cut line.  The upper fabric is tacked near the bottom of the wood bow. 

The excess top fabric is now trimmed off.       Hugh

 

 

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

2 posting tonight (see above), as today I installed the back window in the back curtain.  But there is prework that I did not show earlier.  This is an original Buick Johnston window.   When I did separate the frame, the original basswood frame came apart in 8 pieces.  I first sealed all the wood pieces with epoxy sealer, then I used 2 part Epoxy to glue it together and then 2 part epoxy with Q cells to fill the holes so that it would accept tacks.  I put foil between the metal and the frame for alignment of the holes and to prevent the two parts from sticking together. These normally take 18 screws, but one hole came apart, so I had to fix it with JB Weld and install a stud and add a nut. 

The frame was almost black from oxidation.  I had to hand sand it to remove the oxidation, then I polished it and clear coated it. 

Rebuilding this old frame was an entire work process in itself.

 

Now on to the the window installation.  I made this drawing several years ago to help with understanding how the back windows are installed. 

I started with locating the wood backing onto the back curtain.  Next, I put down tape underneath where the holes are.  I used a small pen to mark the locations.  I used the adjustable punch for the holes. Then I assembled the 2 frame halves together with the stayfast between.  After all the screws were tight, I was able to trim the edge of the back curtain fabric even with the inside edge of the metal frame.  Then I installed the webbing support straps. 

Next I pulled the inner back curtain in place and began trimming.  I traced the inner edge of the wood frame with soap stone, then used a compass at 1" to rough cut out the hole.  I used a putty knife and pencil to mark the cut line of the inner back curtain.   The inner back curtain is stapled to the inside of the wood frame.  

To set the glass, a bead of clear silicone is put on the glass side of the stayfast that is against the metal frame. 

The glass is set in the silicone.  

 

 

To hold the glass, I used three pieces of .050 polyethylene cut 3/8" wide.  These are 5 feet long.  I used 2 strips of basting tape and a 1 1/2" wide piece of bowdrill cut on a bias.  My staple gun also shoots 5/8" brads, so these are used to hold the glass in place.  I shot brads every 2 inches.   I used a piece of cardboard to protect the glass.  Last 2 Photos are of the back window inside and out.     

To address EmTee's comment, a new last picture.  A back curtain was available - with or without the back window from the Buick dealer.  I assume they had stacks of back curtain assemblies, and stacks of top sections.  On the assembly line they likely only had tacks and a tack hammer.   All the sewing was likely done in some other sweat shop.    

Hugh

 

 

   

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

Yesterday I worked on installing all the fasteners on the side curtains. At the base pivot of the last top socket, I had to drill and tap a #8-32 on each side as Buick used a double "lift the dot" in this location.  One for the rear curtain, and one for the side curtains.  Next I had to mark the locations of the studs on the wood armrest and the last top sockets.  These are measured for mostly equal spacing.  I drilled a 1/8" holes in the center of all locations.  Then I used push pin tacks to stretch and locate all the snap centers.  I marked the pin marks in the fabric and punched all the holes with an adjustable punch.  I set the "durable dot" fasteners on the die tool and set all the snaps. 

In the last photo, you can see the single "lift the dot" fastener at the tip of the gypsy curtain.  The last snap at the top of the gypsy curtain is a "gypsy snap".  Instead of a button head, this is a male stud head.  The button head is on the back corner of the top panel, so this makes a go between snap.           Hugh 

[Tuneup settings timing, point gap, RPM circa 1928]

I looked for this Buick distributor hold down bolt forever.  Then Brian Heil sent me one and I was able to replicate it.  I think Kyle Sliger sent me one too.  The bolt tightens down to the shoulder, then the spring tension puts a sliding grip to allow you to rotate the distributor.  This is 1925.  Then this was changed in 1926.  See the last drawing as you can make one with a piece of tubing and a bolt. 

The centrifugal advance gets oil.  From what I have seen of the distributor grease fittings, best to pull the distributor and put grease directly on the gear teeth. 

Really glad to see that you can now set up your timing correctly.     Hugh   

 

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

No one ever shows how they make corrections, and I learned a lot about sewing from my mother, but when I sewed up the back curtain, I left out the two jute straps that hold the base of the back window.   So this is the tool and how I back added these straps. 

First I marked the location for the straps and went 1/4" wider on each side so I could slide them in.  This little tool is called a "Seam Ripper".  Use the point and break the stitch on both sides.  Continue to use the point and pull each stitch away from the break, working one stitch at a time.  When you get to where you want to stop, you can pull both threads to either side of the fabric.  My choice is to tie the two threads together on the inside of the top (behind the back seat).  So I have 4 knots per strap.  I slid the strap in and used 3 clips to hold the strap and the folded end.  I sewed back over my original stitch lines.  Normally to start and stop a machine stitch, you put the machine in reverse for 3-5 stitches, then go forward again.  I did that on the bottom stitch , but on the upper stitch, I just started where I left off.  Then I went back and used the seam ripper tool to pull both ends to the inside and hand tied the end. 

In the last two photos, you can see the inside and the outside of both stitches.  Normally it is even more invisible if both threads are the same color.         Hugh   

 

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

The back curtain is similar to the top.  Same string used for the seams, 3 panels.  Hidem is used across the back at the base, so the base of the center panel is marked with soap stone at the wood and metal interface.  We will add 1/2" to this with a compass for a cut line.  On the sides, we again use soapstone to mark the wood to metal interface, but we will add 1" using a compass for the cut line.  This is because here the gypsy panels have snaps and the fabric overlaps the metal tub.  Note also that the hidem stops at the top rest rods, so a transition has to be made just forward of the top rest pins.  On the top side of the last metal socket, I used a scrap piece of 1 x 2 and soap stone to mark where the top side of the socket is.  On this line, I will add 1/2".  I also made the ends of the gypsy curtains curve like the factory photo showed.   Photo 3 shows one side sewn with the reinforcing in place, and the other side ready to be sewn.   Note that I stop short of the inner back curtain, as I am just wanting to sew the gypsy curtains first.  

Photo 4 shows the inner back curtain.  This was bowdrill, but I find bowdrill to not be very durable.  I like to make the inner back curtain out of top material.   I have also seen staining on the inner back curtain, and if the back window is done right, maybe this wont stain as well.  Notice how the inner back curtain is 1 1/2" wider on each side than the back curtain seams.  Like the roof pads, this hides the back curtain seams.  

Last 2 photos.  Now I can sew the inner reinforcing stitch.  Up until now, all of the sewing has been using black thread on the bobbin and in the machine.  Now I switch to tan thread on the machine side, but stay with a black thread on the bobbin.  I use a compass to set the inner stitch at 1 3/4".  2" is good too.  I stitch this line sewing with the inside side up, and then trim it 1/8" to 3/16" from the stitch.  I stitch the top and the back curtain.  The back panel is now ready for one more fitting on the car for the snaps, and installation of the rear window.

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

Now we will mark the side panels after pulling the top tight again.  I have moved the straight line that was behind the plastic, to the outside of the fabric.  I have also added my cardboard trim detail.  I use a scrap piece of 1/8" x 1" x 6' aluminum to help with marking this line on the side.  I also use the soapstone to trace around the cardboard template.  So this soapstone marking is the finished edge.  When I lay the fabric on the work table I will use the compass and add 1/2".  The 1/2" extra is the cut line.  

I have added a roughly 2 1/2" wide reinforcing strip on this outer edge.  Then the 1/2" extra on the edge is folded over and clipped.  I am still using black for both bobbin and on the machine.  I will sew this with the 1/2" side on the top side. 

We will add the inner reinforcing stitch after the back curtain is sewn.     

d add 1/2" 

 

[No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and sockets]

Back at it after not posting for a while.  Sorry.  So the trick is adding 3/16" strings where the seams will go.  Not sure?  Ask someone who has your top.  On the top side, they are 44" wide at the front and 48" at the back.  You have to do the same thing with the rear curtain.   I do make the width different at the top of the back curtain so that the seams do not lay on each other, so these are 44" at the bottom and 47" at the top.  The seam strings are held on the ends with thumb tacks.  Then they are pulled tight.  Then they are temporarily stitched to the pads about every 8 inches with a whip stitch.  Then I use a marks a lot every 8 inches - but I also mark every high or low point.  Plastic is stretched over the center roof section and pulled tight.  The plastic is marked on the top side of the string, and then the plastic needs to be 2" wider on each side of these 2 strings.  This is the pattern for the center piece of fabric.

For the side panels, the plastic is only a pattern, so we only need to do one side.  The outer side needs to be hung without wrinkles, and the plastic by the string needs to touch the string.  In photo 2, I have a string pulled that is 1/2 lower than the front bow, and runs parallel to the top of the doors to the back.  IT IS ALSO 1/2" BELOW THE FRAMES LOWEST POINT.

I have also added a detail piece made of cardboard so that I can mimic the top design used by Buick in 1925 thru 1927.   (This is how you could tell a Buick from one that was made in 1924). 

The plastic patterns are only used to get close in cutting a piece of fabric that is close in size so that you do not waste fabric. 

The third photo shows you how I do not let the top seam and the back curtain seams overlap at the same place on the back bow.      

The back curtain is similar to the top, so I will just show the top process for now.  The center section of fabric (cut from the pattern) is stretched.  Soap stone is used to mark where that 3/16 cord is under the top material.  Mark the top using 2 fingers to push down on either side of the string while tracing it.  You also need to mark all those 8" spaced string marks, and the high and low marks on the fabric where the string is.  Then take off the center section and do the same with each side panel.  Each side panel should basically touch the string, and hang down straight on the sides at the elevation of the side string.  Put those same marks on the side panels that you did on the top.  Now pull off the side panels. 

Use a compass to add 5/8" to the string line on each panel.  Cut off the excess.  Place the panels face to face and match those string marks on the 3 panels.  Use clips to hold the fabric together.  Stitch the main seam.  Lay the fabric over, and stitch the visible seam.  This gives you the untrimmed  top panel that you see in photo 5.            

[Tuneup settings timing, point gap, RPM circa 1928]

28Buick,  As a heads up, I am posting the ignition tuning instructions by including a link.  See my edited notes from 12-12-2020.  Once your distributor is fixed (replaced) this will walk you thru the set up. 

Don't think that I do not want you to do any work on the carburetor and it's ancillary parts at this time.  I want to know why the hand throttle is not working.  This is another thing that you must fix if you want your car to operate correctly under all conditions.  You can also go thru the carburetor and check the condition of the venturi block and the float as these need to be fixed regardless of fine tuning the carburetor.  

Hugh

 

[Tuneup settings timing, point gap, RPM circa 1928]

28Buick, Read thru the attached link that you started with regarding replacing a stuck pot metal distributor.  See July 16, 2019.   Note that I just edited this document with another option.   

 

If your distributor will not move with the spark lever, then you are missing part of the available timing advance.  You are correct to fix all the ignition settings prior to adjusting the carburetor.   Yes, your Buick will start if the distributor body is frozen, but the distributor needs to move to keep the timing in the correct location for the performance needs.  You currently only have centrifugal advance and you are missing the additional mechanical advance (or retard) that you get from the levers.  That said, since it is frozen, you have it locked on full lever advance or 17 degrees advance at idle.  DO NOT TRY TO HAND CRANK START YOUR CAR.  We also want to adjust the setting for modern fuel.  So because it is locked on full advance, you are not able to retard the spark if necessary when going up a hill to avoid spark knock.  The engine will also run cooler if we can have a greater range with the distributor.    

 

So, put your distributor in order, and in the meantime I am updating my procedure on getting your ignition system set up.  Another older post that I want to update now that Em Tee has given a few more clues to me about 6 volts and dwell meters that I was not aware of.      Hugh