Bud Tierney
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Posts posted by Bud Tierney
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I can offer a possible item re' export...I have a batch of American Exporter magazines, published by the Johnson Export Publishing Co. Looking in the Sept 1920 Automobiles and Accessories section I find 13 in that issue, ranging from the well-known (Chandler with 30+ overseas distributors) to the Unwin Flyer, that Std Cat says never attained much, if any, production. Actually there seems to be at least twice as many trucks.
So it appears export outlets were available where builders could advertise their wares, hoping for overseas contacts. Altho some names like Cleveland, Haynes, Stude, Stutz and Velie were there, Chandlers' was the only ad that actually listed overseas dealers.
Mroz' Ency of Amer Trks says Comet produced a 11/2 Ton that a 1930 McCord catalog says had a Lycoming K engine, but neither gives dates. A 1924 Houpert piston catalog lists Comet 11/2Ton (no model #) 1918-23 (1923 is latest date shown for any make in that catalog, so later models may exist); that catalog shows a Lyc KB engine (the K and KB are same b/s).
Mroz says Comet was liquidated 1923; I understand that in some states, a truck was "dated" the year it was registered/licensed, NOT the year it was actually built.
Comet also built at least one tractor model, a 15-30 with an Erd TF engine, in 1919-20, per I&T's Tractor History Vol I 1916-25. (I&T=Implement & Tractor).
Mroz has nothing on any Pan American, but that 24 catalog lists a Pan American 21/4 Ton for 1919 with a Buda HTU engine...none of my other older catalogs lists it, but I've fallen behind on indexing .
The 1920 Power Wagon, a period trucking magazine, lists Pan American, Chicago, as the builder of a 2 Ton, in its builders lists for July, Aug, Sept, but no listing or specs appear in the specs pages for those months. There's no Oct list or specs, and Pan American is gone from the Nov list.
Auto'ble Qtlys' Amcn Cars Since 1775, in its truck section, lists Pan American, Decatur, as truck prod reported but doubtful, or perhaps a few units on specia;l order or similar.
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Book has no discernible date; has flyleaf listing sections in book, all showing copyright date 1910. Sections are Eng Aux'lrs--cooling, mufflers,starting, governing; Carbs; Elec Ign; Trans & Control--clutches, power transmission to driving wheels, steering, brakes; Bearings & Lubrication, and Tires--types, maintenance, deterioration, roadside and vulcanizing repairs. 51/2 x 81/2, 412 pgs plus 14 pgs questions and 12 pgs index. Covers badly worn but solid, small piece out of spine, about half interior pgs have minor water stain along top, all int pgs otherwise good cond, good heavy stock, wt over 2 lbs.
No actual brand name components mentioned, and all this is too early for my experience, so I have no idea if this has any real value other than a curiosity. Price $10?? plus media mail mailing. Details Bud Tierney 503-281-8576 or email/PM thru site.
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"...he has no pedal..."...D'you mean absolutely none??...drops to the floor, only resistance is return spring??...won't pump up any pedal at all??
In line with Pete's question, is any fluid missing, or is all fluid dumped??
Is this a conventional non power system where brake pedal works master cylinder, master cyl pressure activates wheel cyl systems, or does this have some AH idiosyncrasies of design or const'n???
Has complete master cyl been replaced??
Weird!!
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Always happy to share whatever information I have.
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John2: Actually, there was a serious farm depression in the 20s, which just continued into the 30s--WWI markets led to increased production, high debt levels for land, eqpmt; the bubble burst when the war ended, the increased prod and Europe growing crops again resulted in gluts, etc..
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It seems to be a well documented engine in the sense that it's listed in numerous parts catalogs...
My 38 Victor lists it for the 1926-27 Davis models 93 and 94, and under Cont'l lists it with 14 other "L"s that apparently share gaskets, except for two of the "L"s that take different head and manifold gaskets...
My 36 King Products (engine parts) shows it as 23/4 bore, the 38 Vic says stroke 43/4 (that Victors batch of 15 "L"s shows two bore (23/4 and 27/8, not saying which "L" has which bore, but all 15 "L"s have 43/4 stroke).
The 36 King says it only shares pistons with two other "L"s and a third "L" for part of its production...the others are shown with 27/8, so those were apparently built after bore change...
I've been told Cont'l assigned different numbers to basically the same engine, the different numbers meaning different car builders, but that doesn't seem to match the 38 Victors list of 23 makes the 15 "L"s went into...
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If you're still looking for a C400 block, was in Gray marine engines looking for something else in a 1928-40 McCord gasket catalog that just came in and find several Grays were C400s:
Gray C4, C5, 4-40 (sometimes called Four 40), 62 (may also be called 4-62 or Phantom 62) and 143 all show as C400. (Catalogs differ on these designations, not unusual in parts catalogs).
If you're in the club you might pass on that Gray also used the C600:
Gray Phantom Lt 6, 6-51 and 6-62 all show as the C600.
They may've used them in other models, as I don't have a comprehensive Gray list in any of my catalogs.
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Sorry re' late reply; don't get into site every day...
Tad B's Truck Spotters Guide only has a couple pix of these but implies this style first used in 1940 (has no pix for38/39, and the pic of yours is not ID'd as to year) thru 48, maybe 49 (no pix for 49). Looks like implies yours is 40 or 41, but only other pic is 48, which has different sides of hood etc., so "early" style may've been used for several years.
You could try emailing pic to SuperJeff (Jeff L, who runs the "What Am I?" forum) (guess make/model of truck pictured) on aths; you should be able to email thru that site. He has a monumental collection of truck books/pix.
Reo site includes trucks but last time I was there still a pay/join before forum open.
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Sorry re' the late reply; don't get into the site every day...
With a tow truck rig you should check the antique/vintage tow truck site/s? as these vehicles are often in a class (world?) all their own; don't have it on my list but should come up Googling antique and vintage tow truck forum or antique/vintage wrecker forum.
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Please see my ad under the Literature For Sale forum here; many thxx!!
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If nothing helpful turns up here you'll want to ask this question on the old tractor/old engine forums for experienced answers...
ytmag is a farm-ag site with good traffic and a Ford-Ferguson forum...several others exist; Google Ford Ferguson tractor forums and a number of forums will come up, all free to post on. There may well be a Ferguson site.
smokstak (no typo) is an old engine site with very good traffic; they have both an old tractor forum AND a Lugs and Cleats forum if you're on steel.
Don't recall if the Z120 and 129 were exclusive to Ferguson, but seems I've seen that noted somewhere; did you know there's a ZD129 and ZD129F diesel that hardly anyone's seen??
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Probably 15-18 1914 to 1917 Pierce Arrow truck ads on outside back covers of a business trade magazine named American Industries; were bound in books but now separated. 8x11 on an odd soft almost pulpy paper with a kind of light sepia tone. B/w (black/sepia?) except for green or orange outline, still attached to front cover for date verification. Probably 10-12 different ads (a few duplicated); about 1/3 page illus plus text. Good cond but because of paper should be either framed or kept in clear protectors. Price $1 plus mailing individually, consider less for part of batch/set of ads. Bud Tierney 503-281-8576, email or PM thru site.
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Sorry about late inquiry; don't get into site regularly...
Still have your problem??
Didn't know there was more than one way to install: just bolt 'em in, but, then, we never tried commercial replacements, just cut/bored some out of pieces of old const/ag drive belting...
Unless your driveline sadly misaligned, can only guess you using too light ones; an old catalog lists well over 40 different ones...
How flexible are the ones you're using as replacements?? If NOS, they may've lain around so long they're dried and brittle, won't take torque/flex??
Considered doubling up, using two if they seem flexible enough, if driveshaft splined enough to allow??
Oh: 1927 series 50 what?? My catalog doesn't show any for Buick.
Everyone loves a mystery...
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I don't follow Dodge trucks, so I don't know how helpful this'll be...
FWIW, my 50 Motor (covers 1936-49, mostly over-the-road gas) shows both the T112 and T114 as L-(flat) head 6s, 31/4x43/8=218 cid.
Per that manual the T112 was in the 1941-47 WC and the T114 was in the 41-47 WD15...
That manual also shows earlier 218s of the same b/s and of 33/8x41/16 b/s in other models with engine designations T30, T38, T40, etc.
I'd guess this belongs on the Dodge forum here and/or on one of the Dodge truck sites for more complete information. Serial # should tie down prod date.
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It undoubtedly has value; the problem is ID'g it and then finding someone who needs it close enough to make it worth while.
You'll probably have better luck on this on a truck site like aths...Eatons were used in a large number of makes over the years. There's also a smaller site: antiquetruckclubofamerica.com that might be helpful; they're both free to register on and post. There's also the individual truck makes sites that you could try.
Have you Googled for an Eaton ID and/or installation list??
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Of course it'll be of interest--you might also want to check with the Chev people...a couple of my old catalogs say "see Chev" , and one shows the 4cyl Sheriden taking the same head gasket as the 490 Chev (and it's bore matches another Sheriden listing that says Mason 4cyl, Mason being an engine builder for GM and apparently being involved in the early Chev engines.
The Northway mentioned in the Std Cat was, per one catalog, one of the Northway V8s that went into the few Sheriden 8s built (if any besides prototypes/test vehicles).
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Don't have anything authoritative on the Pak-Age-Kar other than a nice thumbnail in Mroz; it seems to've had an array of engines during its life; parts books listing Pac/Pak-Age-Car/Kar (spellings differ) generally agree on:
1926 (Mroz) 28-29 (catalogs) original 2cyl hor-opposed (flat) maker unknown;
Catalogs skip to 33 (Mroz says Stutz acq'd 32)
1933 Austin 4 2.2 bore
1934 Austin-Stutz 4 2.2 bore
Catalogs don't show 1935
1936-37 Herc IXA 4cyl 3" bore
Mroz says sold to Auburn Central Co (an E.L Cord Co) 1938
!938-41 Lycoming DC 4cyl 35/16 bore; HOWEVER, there are reports they also used Lycoming CT 4cyl 33/4 bore, those of the famous/infamous swelling/disintegrating potmetal oilpumps.
There's probably more info under Stutz listings, but it's yawn time here.
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Well, I can offer a few suggestions (and my apologies if you're already doing/done them)...
(1) the Calif Cptn Comm or it's equivalent (states all love their own nomenclature) will have a record of the formation of the business, its principals (whether or not they had any principles) and it's dissolution...if you had a middle initial Edward'd be easier to trace,and/or relatives with the same last name...("Cptn Comm's", despite that name, USUALLY also have records of partnerships, sole proprietorships, assumed business names, etc, BUT it's always best to inquire before sending money, if a fee is involved)...
(2) SF City Directories, issued annually, would show when the business operated on the ground and its principal business...following the address backward would give you predecessors, and following it forward, and checking the principals of the new business might tell you if Edward kept on in some other line...ditto with following Edward in the individuals section of the City Directories, assuming Edward lived in Frisco proper or the area covered by the Frisco CD's, which sometimes include suburban bedroom communities..
(3) A Lincoln dealer would have to be relatively substantial; don't know if there's a Calif Auto Dealers/Agency Assn that'd have old dealer name lists etc....you could try FOMOCO; you might hit a history buff who may look something up for you... With sympathy, Bud
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Sorry not to've replied earlier--haven't been in the site for a few days...
(1) Cont'l C400s, AS SUCH, listed in my 38 Victor a 4cyl 33/8x4, were not a very popular engine...along with your Beacon, a few were put into Angleworm tractor model 10 1935-36, Divco truck model R 34-35 and model S 36-37 (1-11/2Ton)...I also have a note they're in "Fageol #9 36-37", but my source note doesn't match (that model # sounds like a Fageol farm tractor, not a truck, but it's too late in the day to go thru catalogs with Fageol listings).
HOWEVER: that Victor shows the C400 shares bore, stroke and some gaskets with the C4143 (truck engine) and its power unit version PC143 (if there's a farm/ag/ind'l/const version it'll be C143)...you need to email Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon at Monte's eqpmt in Chicago (Obsolete Cont'l parts dealers) to see if another block can be used in the event the C400 was the parent of a seriies of C-engines. (Cont'l was famous--infamous??--for giving basically the same engine different designations for different customers befor getting into the truck/ind'l/pu designations).
garradmoon@montes@flash.net or montesequipment.com.
(2) "cracked beyond repair"---unless you've gotten a professional opinion you might be surprised at the repairs a liberal application of money can accomplish. With sympathy, Bud
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You might want to follow the F198 question I posted on the Multi-Cyl Power Unit forum on smokstak..so far found a couple more catalog listings but no real info. It appears to be an oddball of some kind--the 198 doesn't appear to be the cid if the catalog b/s are correct.
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Did eyeball a couple more catalogs that included some heavy Cont'l users like Hough and Towmotor, as well as various road/industrial eqpmt makers; lots of Cont'l listings but not a single F198.
Without sorting thru my Cont'l list (presently in disarray) it appears to be the largest of the F 4cyls; it's possible it was produced for F 4cyl customers who wanted/needed a more powerful 4 as an option, or it's "dedicated/designed" use was something not covered in my old catalogs.
If you decide to look you should post on Ag sites like ytmag, eqpmt sites like hcea and one or more of the Cat sites (catskinners are around lots of eqpmt on const etc sites).
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Well, the F198 does seem interesting...
It doesn't show in a 68 Am'cn Hammered or 84 and 86 Fed-Mog bearing catalogs, but does show in a 94 Clevite bearing catalog, which could imply it was a rather low-prod unit (replacement parts catalogs often omit low-prod or specialty engines, even when they share parts with more popular engines in the series)...
That Clevite catalog only lists the F198 (same 37/16x43/8 as the F162/163) (3.438x4.375); Cont'l usual usage for this F-series was to have an automotive version F4198, the ind'l version F198 and a free-standing power unit version P198 or P?198. It's also possible these Clevite listings are incomplete and such versions do exist.
Nor does that catalog list any other 4cyl 198; Cont'l sometimes used the same number in differing engine series (A4124, F4124 etc)...
Eyeballing a couple likely catalogs covering trucks and some ind'l/ag eqpmnt fails to turn up F198 listings, but my stuff is very weak on welders, gens, pumps ad nauseum. Will eyeball a few more to see if anything turns up. Bud
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As you can see, opinions differ...but with a 49 Dodge you can afford to take chances if you wish.
All kinds of nasty things can've happened where you cant see'um until you pull the pan, as mentioned, and the head, BEFORE turning it over.
The internets full of checklists to consider; you might also search "stuck engine" on some of the Ag forums--farm eqpmt engines, often on a piece of eqpmt used only a small part of the year and sitting out in the weather, "stick" all the time, sometimes fatally for the engine if mishandled.
I'll confess to just firing up long defunct engines, without serious results, but it was more luck than brains, for sure.
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Bill: Only found one list of truck specs, in the Jan 1927 issue, and they're not very helpful--three models were listed, all three shown as model "G" (obviously incorrect):
1Ton--4cyl 37/8x41/2--126" WB--tires 30x5 ft and rear;
11/2Ton--same eng--137WB--tires 32x6 ft and rear;
2Ton--same eng--137WB--tires 32x6 front, 34x7 rear. Didn't specify if rears single or dual. All three showed spiral bevel rear axle.
One thing was clear, though: the Jan and May 1927 Graham Bros ads showed a 2-piece windscreen, while the Jan, Feb and July 28 ads showed a one-piece.
Your 700x20s were almost certainly added later.
Info is from the American Exporter magazine, an exporter trade magazine. I have the Jan-June 1927, and all of 1928, altho it's possible I have Jul-Dec 27 out misfiled somewhere.
An annual publication : Dyke's Automobile Encyclopedia, would have more specs, but a set is out of my price range. Cheers, as they say. Bud
Comet and Pan American
in General Discussion
Posted
On the truck question, Georgano, one of the Gurus of truck history, has a small book of world truck builders (names/adds/years only) and a big book with world thumbnail histories; I have the little one, which lists:
Comet, US...Comet Automobile Co, Decatur, IL 1916-25...AT (Ag tractor) and G (general goods hauler 1Ton rating and higher);
Pan American, US...Pan American Motors Corp., Decatur, IL 1919-22...G
His big book may have more info.
For a more up to date check, a man in France is compiling another Ency of world truck builders, or at least an up to date list, using a monumental array of sources. I lost his name and emails in a computer meltdown, but he did at one time have a partial list on aths.org. If it doesn't come up in a search SuperJeff (Jeff L., who runs the What Am I?? forum on aths) will have his email adds; he's always happy to talk old truck history, and will as happily share anything he might have on these two. Good luck. HTH.