Bud Tierney
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Posts posted by Bud Tierney
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While I'm not really into the old horizontal-opposed (flat) 2 and 4 Cyl auto etc engines, I 've noted that, generally, their bore is larger than their stroke...while almost all inlines are tho opposite: their bore is smaller than their stroke..(a few "square", and even fewer "oversquare" inlines are out there, but they're unusual and rare)...
Is/Was there some technological reason/s for this difference??
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WHAT A GOOF---THAT'S 43/4x5...another senior moment...
Many thxx for comments...
So far the Clark seems to've had a smaller Rutenber (41/2x5=318) one of their then advertised sizes...
However, the Glide did use the 354 engine in several models; or appears to, the b/s matching...
GROAN--(edited)--another goof---half marked off Clark until thought this AM to finish checking--right there in Std Cat, which should be first check, are 30HP fou and 40HP four---the 40 could well've been our 43/4x5, often listed as 40-45 HP (I think one source said it could develop 50)...
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Rutenber was an old-time once quite successful engine builder; auto, launch, stationary per old ads...
One model was their 4cyl 43/4x5 (354.4) offered to the trade in the pre-teen and teen years; used in the 2T and 3T, and some of the 5T Avery Farm and City Tractor models (a combination farm tractor/road truck) now avidly sought by collectors, I wondered, as idle curiosity, what else this engine may've gone into...
The Jewel advertised this engine, but it was quite short lived...
Does anyone here know of, or have , a list of the early cars/trucks/boat builders that used Rutenber engines?? My own list is made from my own catalogs (very weak on this early period), the Std Cat US cars, Mroz's Truck Ency, Lou Phillips book and random comments from old forums.. I have some 60+ makes listed, most their later 6s, not all verified.
This may be Rutenbers model "U" engine (the ads showing the model U as a six do not match the engine list in those ads, and I think one squib stated the "U" was 41/4))...
Any references or comments appreciated...
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A good charged up 6V battery should run and start the average midsize 6 cyl inline easily normally, several times a day, even without ANY generating, unless you're running lights, heater and radio full blast, OR unless you/ve got a big heavy V8..
I know this because I've run these on nightly battery chargups when I couldn't come up with he money for generator work until next payday (and maybe not then)...just get home before full dark...
If a big V8, as mentioned in earlier posts above, hot hard starts are not unusual when everything's not tip=top, and sometimes even then...my brother was a longtime member of the Cad club, had several prewar Cads, and sometimes just shrugged at slow hot starts...
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Catalogs are spotty on this; only a few mention the Austin engine/s??
33 Perf Circle rings--1933---Austin 2.2--4 5/32 oil rings, 8 comp, no size given
34 Hastings Flat Rate---1933--Austin 2.2--4 5/32 oil, 8 5/32 comp
1934--Austin-Stutz 2.2--4 1/8 oil, 8 3/32 comp
1946 McQ-Norris---1934/35, all models---Austin 375, 475 engines, 2.2---4 1/8 oil, 8 3/32 comp 1949 Hastings--1933 models A, B, 16--Austin 2.2--
1934/35 models A, B, 16, 18----tAustin-Stutz 2.2---this catalog only gives ring groove sizes, seems to agree with 34 Hastings above.
A 36 King Products catalog indicates Austin changed from the original pistons using all 5/32 rings to an all aluminun piston, using 1/8 and 3/32 rings, starting at engine #16970
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Don't know if Cont'l timing marks more or less same on all engines, or if differ per engine....
If differ might help to know which engine you have (my old catalogs differ on 28 6cyls)...9L?? 9LA?? 14L?? 15L?? or ??
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There's also aths.com , justoldtrucks (these two are heavily into more modern stuff, but there are older truck collectors there) and the Antique Cars/Trucks forum on smokstak...it would be nice if it could be saved,,,
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If you've posirively ID'd the engine as some Cont'l, it's almost certainly a replacement for an original K-S in-house built engine, introduced in 1912 per Mroz's Ency, which states proprietary engines were not introduced until 1925 (one of the K=S engines was used until 1929, when the company died)...
OOPS...are you sure about your date?? Tad's truck spotters guide shows the K-S as a shovel=nose (radiator behind engine) until 1924; the pic above looks very much like his illus for 25-28...maybe meant 1926 instead of 1916??
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If you're still looking for NOS/NORS a 36 King catalog says your 6E shares piston assemblies with Cont'ls 6M, 8R and 2P...the 8R being a popular engine (in lots of makes)...
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I do hope you're not recycling the originals...our "forever" internet is only "forever" as long as the correct technology is there to retrieve it, and the correct power to run the technology...and someone cares enough to transfer it to a new technology...
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One of the not often thought of things when cars run hotter than normal is whether the radiator is having trouble with air flow, especially when not a daily driver....
After dark put a light behind the radiator and look in from the front; you may see some clogging from bits of leaves, old spider webs, etc., that may be affecting cooling...
And it's free...
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Just out of curiosity reviewed my old period catalogs to see if I'd acquired anything pertinent since '16, but nothing new...
However, I noted a comment in the thread above I should've commented on in '16---the differences between "Official" model designations (per Std Cat, which I assume to be as Official as it gets) and the models listed in parts catalogs---lots do match, but lots do not, and sometimes they have no relation at all, which is awkward when you're trying to ID which engine was original...
Bell models that don't match are 4-18 (probably the 1918), the 4-32 (Std Cats 36HP found overoptimistic when checked?? ), a "Special 4"with the H-Sp 7000, and a 6-60, almost certainly Riess's 6, rounded up from 57HP, sold as a Bell. The years listed are another tangle that don't seem to fit, also not unusual, but we use what's available......
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There are IH old-truck sites that should be able to put you in touch with other Lyc owners...
oldihc.com is the one I'm more familiar with; there's also redpower.com (??) and another IH truck club site; they should come up on Google...
You'll want to ID your engine before doing any serious work on it---if you have the CT or CTH (or any of the C series) there may be a major oil pump problem (definite on CT, probable on CTH, possible om other Cs), but also info on the net re' replacements (gardnermotors.com etc)...
Whichever Lyc you have, treat ir gently as they're reportedly not that easy to find parts for...someone on smokstak is having fits finding bearings for a 4SL...
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Sorry, Mroz just briefly describes the "first version"---2cyl hor-opp mounted at rear with transmission---then mentions 32 Stutz re=design with no details re' configuration...
I understand Georgano is often more detailed ( I've never seen copy), may be more helpful...
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Richard:
Had trouble opening your link in your PM, but finally partially succeeded (my computer doesn't like system, or vice-versa, or mutual)...
Book mentioned is Albert Mroz Illus Ency of Amer Trks and Comm'l Veh...they'd also be thumbnailed in Georgano's World Trucks Ency (the big book; the little book just has basic names, dates, types etc). If you're close to a decent pub lib they should have both in the reference stacks...or online now???
Engine info was from Mroz and various old replacement parts catalogs; will list them if helpful...
If seriously researching carefully note all the name variations, Googling etc each of the various variations separately, as online searching is generally quite literal, and can easily miss what we see as very minor name variations...
Did your 33 brochure list one of the known engines or one not listed in the earlier thread in 2001???
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Sorry, no personal interest other than hobby; a recurring regret is that I didn't compile a file of pictures in the process, so almost all my info is from the printed pages of parts catalogs and these forums...
A water pump parts listing (March 1936 KIng Prod) shows the W4 and H8 with a 47/8 shaft, while the W5 and H6 take a 51/32 shaft...
No front bushing is listed, but impeller, rear bushing, packing nut and impeller pin are the came..which doesn't help wit the question if the housings will interchange or the distributors usable on his...
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KENNY---Bummer---looks like W4 and W5 almost exclusively used by Durant products Durant and Star, except for a few used by the Baldwin Gleaner/Gleaner Combine, at least per my catalogs...that combine is listed for the 1929 10-11 foot cut model using both W4 and W5, which could easily have different setups...
An equally nebulous possibility is the Cont'l H 4cyl series---H1, H6, H7, H8, H9, all listed in a 52 McCord Tractor and Industrial gasket guide as using the same set of gaskets, implying considerable similarities...but here, again, these Hs show very few listings, and no familiar names...
C CARL---there should be something similar on yours; let me know what you find, as there wers several headless Contl's...
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Didn't know Billy D's engine tags didn't show Cont'l model ID on tag...old parts catalogs list several engines for varios 23 Stars...
Look at any letters/numbers cast, embossed, stamped, like those on the head...you're looking for W4, W5, 6Y, 7U or something similar somewhere in numbers/letters...
OOPS---CORRECTION??---6Y and 7U are 6s per Cont'l engine sections , altho listed as 4s in parts catalogs...seems unlikely engine issued as first a 4 and then a six, so probably an error copied into later catalogs...so looks like probably W4 0r W5...
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What might help is the engine ID...should be on the tag with the serial #...something like W4 or W5???
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The BUX was a fairly popular engine of its time, even got into a batch of tractors...listings run 1917/18 up into mid 20s or so...
WEHS.net (Wauk Eng Hist Soc) has manuals, advice and sympathy but no parts, altho I understand they make suggestions if they can..
There're probably manuals on EBay, but some Wauk manuals were updated (Edition 2 etc); WEHS sells the latest editons...
Only familiar names that I believe has Clubs or sites is Fageol and GMC, but the one catalog that listed GMC gave no years or model #...
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Interesting...Mroz's Ency US Comm'l Veh lists buses, too, so ordinarily would've at least mentioned them...I'm not that conversant with the actual machinery of the periods, but I'd guess more 24 than 14 from the pic, but it's just a guess...
Anyway, one catalog listed a Lycoming CE for a Stoughton truck...if that should turn out to be the Lycoming CE (or any other Lyc C- engine) DON'T TOUCH the oil pump---many of these had a potmetal oil pump in a press-in fit. These have deteriorated/cracked over the years and tend to come out in pieces. Owners often leave them in if they look OK. Cast iron pumps are OK...(Info re' replacement pump on Gardner website)...
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Did you mean 1924???---Mroz lists Stoughton 1920-28..
If the engine looks unfamiliar, hold your breath...while Mroz lists Cont'l, Herc, Midwest and Wauk engines used he also implies an "own" engine (27.3 HP 4cyl) may've been used in 1925 and describes a 31.5 HP "own" engine in that year...
No mention of any buses are made in the brief thumbnail; my catalogs only have one "Stoughton Bus" listing, using an OHV Midwest engine, obviously not yours...
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Std Cat is certainly unkiind, citing "unworthiness" per dated styling and a poorly formed hood..
Or did they actually mean "unworldiness"...
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2Hs were used by Auburn, Elcar, Gardner and others (for which I don't recall any Clubs/websites)...I believe there're clubs/groups/sites for those three that might be helpful for this or other questions that might come up...
OOPS---Apperson also used the 2H...
Rutenber 33/4x5 (354.4) Engine 1905-18 or so
in Technical
Posted
RO: So far i have almost 60 names on my Rutenber list, including that Wiki list, altho not all verified. Rutenber himself left the company, the new owners reorganizing and renaming the company Rutenber Mtr Co to retain the reputation. After being passed around, probably in financial deals, they were absorbed by/became a part of/merged/were engulfed by??? Indiana Truck (it's confused; I never took the time to pin it all down)...
That Lexington motor may well be our 43/4x5, as classic car database has a 354 for the "A" and "B" series, which're in the right timeline...
Somewhere in my scribbles there's a 354 that could be a Rutenber, but it's apparently in pairs, and I wondered if they'd produced the same engine for awhile in "more modern" pairs instead of separates, altho separates seem to've lasted longer in marine applications...fascinating...
LAYDEN: Oh, yes, wonderful old example of advertising people running amok; I remember that illustration from some of their period advertising when I got into Rutenber several tears ago...if I'm counting the manifolds correctly that's probably their introduction of their new six...very nice piece to acquire...