Pomeroy41144
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Posts posted by Pomeroy41144
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Rusty Quote:
"Expensive cars such as town cars and limousines did not get them because they were thought to be gaudy and in bad taste."
Here is a limo with some whites.
Another Limo from "You're Telling Me."
Pomeroy41144
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Here are a Chevrolet and Ford in the same movie--no white walls.
Pomeroy41144
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1931 Dusenberg from the same movie
The luxury brands had the whitewalls.
P
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1931 Packard Eight
as seen in a 1934 movie "You're Telling Me"
Pomeroy
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Check the video in this link. Look at the cars. Can you spot the one car with white walls?
VJ Day, Honolulu Hawaii, August 14, 1945 on Vimeo
My avatar is a still from a movie titled "Never Give a Sucker an Even Break" from 1941. At the end of this movie is hilarious chase scene filmed on the streets of Southern California in 1941. This film is widely available. Great old cars. Another movie with a good chase on locaton is "Call Out the Marines" from 1942. Lots of street scenes in Southern California.
Pomeroy
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Watch old movies from the 1930s and 1940s. That will give you a good idea about real life white wall use back then.
I have watched hundreds of movies from that era with a view to looking at old cars on film shot on location. Location shots are a slice of American life at that moment in time. Street scenes are especially interesting whether shot by a major studio or by a newsreel crew. They indicate the conditions at that time. Look at the cars.
The cars shot in the background on location are vehicles that are actually owned by someone and not by the studio or a dealership. The one thing you will notice on these old films is that many of the cars in real life film of 1930s street scenes do not have whitewall tires-- the majority of cars have black side wall tires. The photo evidence is there for anyone who puts in the time to look. This topic has been discussed at length on FordBarn. Also, Look at books that treat the history of a town or city; check the pre-war photos. More than likely the book will have photos of street scenes from that era. Those photos show old cars parked on the street, autos that are ordinary everyday vehicles of their day, not spiffed up cars in parade. These photos show the day to day reality of how these cars looked. These are great resources for researching old vehicles.
Additionally, to the chargrin of fans of Model A radiator stone guards, the vast majority of Model A cars in use during the pre-war period did not have radiator stone guards. Go to a Model A show and one would get the impression that every Model A car came with a radiator stone guard. The historic evidence shows quite the opposite. In thirty years of looking at images of old cars prior to WWII, I have seen exactly one Model A with a radiator stone guard in an era photo.
Good luck with your research concerning white side wall tires.
Pomeroy41144
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Big Beat,
I think I did alright in the attitude department.
The one thing I think I was guilty of was knowing "too much" about the model in question. I consciously tried to keep a lid on it as I went along so I did not appear like a know it all. I always wanted this model and my dad owned one when I was a kid, so I knew what I was looking for. The initial visit and the phone call a couple days later went well. I liked the car and I think it was very evident to the seller. I could not help but to point out all of the good things about the car. So there was no real poker face but no real over the top enthusiasm either. But he knew I liked the car. We'll see how it goes a few months from now when I go back and make an offer if it is still there (and I am betting it will be). There are a lot of car shows between then and now. And the intenet.
Thanks to all who replied-- a lot of great advice. Thanks.
Pomeroy41144
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Yep, there was a time when there were full service gasoline stations.
I remember a couple guys would come running out when the car ran over the hose and rang the bell. The gas attendant had the little change clicker on his belt. One guy would check the oil and the other pumped the gas and did the windows. Tires that were for sale wrapped up with colorful paper and on stands. The old oil cans and the funnel/can opener used to dispense it. They even gave you road maps or other little things.
Those days are gone.
P.
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Thanks Matt.
It is good to hear this interesting info from someone who does it every day.
P
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I agree with West. For all he knows the paper work could be "doctored" I would have it with me but keep it in my pocket. Spend some time there, talk to him about various subjects including cars. I have seen a deal struck because people had another intrest besides what they were actually trying to buy. Gain his confidence so he'll believe you're not a swindler. This may take more than one visit. If it gets this far, ask him if he would like to see some "research" you've been doing. I would also tell him of my intentions not to hot rod the car, or "flip" it with the intention of making money. let him know you intend to keep the car. Then it will be time to discuss price. I realize some people are not going to budge I don't care what you do. I wish you luck.
BillyBird,
When he showed the car the first time (a few weeks ago), we spent some time talking about other things and he seemed like a nice guy in general. We even know some of the same people, which is real good. So we were mixing well already and that will help later on.
The car was tucked in the corner of a warehouse when I was first allowed to view it. I had good access and okay light but when I go back I will insist that the car be brought out in the open so I can really go over it.
Like I said above, I will keep an open mind. And you never know what will become available between then and now. So I may never go back if the right car comes along first.
I'll keep looking.
Thanks to all who replied.
Pomeroy41144
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"I get the feeling that he will be insulted by this fair offer" Never deny the decision maker their opportunity to make their decision. For me it is a lifestyle concept.
Bottom line is: buying an old car is not a logical process. .
Thanks everyone for the advice.
Flat top, I won't go into detail of how and why I am making this assumption about the seller. One big reason is the unrealisitic price.
I am prepared to walk away and find a car that won't require a couple years of restoration. My wife wants a car that can be enjoyed right now, not two years from now. But like a lot of other guys, I see an old car and think that with some work this old car can be back on the road and looking good. I guess it is the Ellie Mae Clampett syndrome of old cars. Instead of saving the critters, save the old cars. I guess I am no different.
At the right price, this car would be a worth while project; at the price it is being offered, not so much. I won't get hung up on this one, but it is worth exploring. I am going to wait a few months and if the car is still for sale at that price, I'll make the offer as diplomatically as possible. In those few months there will be other opportunities, so I will keep a very open minds. This is a big country, and there are a lot of old cars out there.
Thanks for the great discussion.
Pomeroy
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I am interested in an old car.
I found the make and model that I want on line and near my home.
The problem: the seller (the son of the third owner) has the car priced at nearly twice as much as what it is really worth.
First, about the car; the make and model are not important in this discussion, just the conditions of the sale. The car is a pre-war survivor that does not run. It has a couple of non-original parts but other than that it is original and complete but in need of a total restoration. Car has original engine and trans. The car smells to high heaven of weed killer or some other critter killing chemical. The car has been in storage (uncovered) in a warehouse since 1992 and has not run since about that time. The seller says that it ran when they parked it, which, quite frankly, means absolutely nothing to me because the car does not run presently. The car is essentially a barn find in need of a total restoration.
After studying the market and much deliberation with several old car enthusiasts, including the president of my antique car club chapter, the consensus is that the car, listed at $11,500, is actually worth about $6,500. The 11.5 price does not agree with any price guide, which says an operating and complete car of this type in similar condition is worth about $4,000. The 11.5 price does not agree with the market either. I have found any number of similar cars at the same price or below that actually run and look presentable. The asking price for this vehicle is on par with a high number-three condition vehicle, which the subject vehicle is not.
I would like to restore this car. But how do I get this guy to climb down from this very unrealistic price? I want to offer him the $6,500, but I get the feeling that he will be insulted by this fair offer, which is about 2,500 more than the price guide (in deference to the original condition of the vehicle).
This happened to me before. I made an offer on a Cadillac that was over priced by about 30 percent. The guy was insulted big time. The car was nice, but not worth what he wanted. He wasn't an a-hole to me but he was quite unhappy by the offer and said so. Well, six months later he calls and asks if I am still interested in the car at the original offer. I could have been a jerk about it and walked away and laughed but I liked the car so I bought it anyway.
How should I handle it? Bring in the evidence of the market and the price guides? The guy has old cars, so he should know better. I'm guessing that he might have misread a price guide and listed the price of a basket case phaeton instead of the 4dr he has (the asking price lines up with a similar condition open car in the price guide). If I buy the car and restore it, I will probably keep it for the rest of my life. The car won't get cut up or hot-rodded or blown up on cable tv--it'll go to a good home. Should I emphasis that?
Anyways I want to make a fair offer, but I don't want a big issue either.
How do I handle it?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks.
Pomeroy41144
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For Sale:
One pair of 1973 Cadillac DeVille Fender Skirts w/ trim pieces. $125
These fender skirts have not been on a car in almost twenty years. They have been in storage since 1993. Very good condition--no rust out; hangars and levers in very good condition. The skirts, which are white in color, are usable as is but can easily be restored. Will not seperate; will sell as pair. You pay shipping or pick up in Chicago Metro area.
Pomeroy
708-752-3260
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West, nice rock collection! I guess we will have to try and make up our own game for pre-war stuff!
Yep, How about a quiz for the 1930s/1940s?
Pomeroy
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I got 9 of 17. I don't know a whole bunch about 1960s muscle. Did better on the 1950s cars. How about a quiz on the 1930s and 1940s cars? I know about them.
Pomeroy41144
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Got 83% on this one, cars from the fifties. I got a 63% on the 60s muscle car challenge (can't tell the diff between the individual models. A couple of mixed up answers and I might have scored better. I was born after most of these cars were manufactured.
TM.
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Marty,
Awesome Cadillac Convertible!!!
Both cars are a lot of fun but what you might consider to satisfy your WWII lust is a GPW(Ford) or MB(Willys) Jeep.AACA just established a class for these and other military vehicles.Dave, maybe a 1942 Ford Fordor Staff Car (or Cadillac or Buick)? A Dodge WC Command Car would be very cool.
Quote: ShopRat
Welcome to both you and your wife. I hope that she will come along with you as you get back into the hobby.
There are many women like myself that not only enjoy the vehicles but we have entered into the judging end of the hobby as well.
Susan, my wife is excited by the prospect of our getting an old car. She wants to drive it too. No problem there.
Thanks all who replied.
Tony
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Thanks all.
My wife and I are looking forward to getting back into the old car scene.
Tony,I agree with West, but then you will note us Buick guys think all old cars are nice, but Buicks are nicer. Seriously, you might want to scan the various quite active Buick forum sections. We will look for you there. Oh yes, there are some Ford sections also.
John
John,
I agree, Buicks are nicer. As a family we have been buying them for over 50 years--all the way back to my father's first Buick, a 1956, or my mother's current 2006 model. I had a beautiful gold 1972 Electra 225 (4D) with black top--probably one of the nicest old cars I have ever owned.
Like I said, I am leaning toward the pre-war V-8 Ford (1937 thru 1939), but if a decent 1940 Buick Model 41, Model 61 or Model 71 comes along at the right price, I just might change my mind.
In fact, I followed a 1941 Buick ad to this website/forum. It was the green 1941 Super model 51 in New Jersey that was offered for $3,999 and sold in 15 minutes. Sorry I missed out on that one.
Looking forward to enjoying the forum.
Thanks.
Tony
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Forum Members,
I am a new member to the forum. I am in the fresh water business and I am a WWII historian and author. I am looking forward to learning more about antique cars and their owners here on the forum. My father has always been an enthusiast and it rubbed off on me and my two brothers.
I used to collect early 1970s Cadillacs and Buicks. I had some nice ones too. I got married and sold all of the Cadillacs. I have been married for some time now and my wife is stuck with me. As a consequence, I feel safe enough in my marriage to start looking for an antique car. I am looking to buy a pre-war V-8 Ford or pre-war Straight Eight Buick (my father and brother collect Buick Straight-8 cars). Leaning toward the old Ford for a variety of reasons. We'll see how it shakes out in the end.
Glad to be here and looking forward to enjoying my membership.
Thanks.
Tony
Offer Insults Seller
in General Discussion
Posted
I had an old friend named Rich who used to say stuff like this, and he was driving the same point as you are.
And almost always, at least when I was present, people took it the wrong way.
41144