nzcarnerd
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Posts posted by nzcarnerd
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I didn't find any reference to Gardner Motors in the local papers - perhaps they didn't advertise.
I did find this one from Cossens and Black - https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19390530.2.6.4?end_date=31-12-1939&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=new+Dodge&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1939&title=AHCOG%2cBH%2cCL%2cCROMARG%2cDUNST%2cESD%2cLCM%2cLCP%2cLWM%2cMIC%2cMTBM%2cNOT%2cOAM%2cODT
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Regarding new prices (which will mean nothing to US readers) it would seem that the Mopar stuff was dropped in price during the 1939 year - one ad suggesting it was due to a change from US sourcing to Canadian.
A small English car was not a lot cheaper. A Hillman Minx, another model handled by Todds, was 288 pounds in 1939.
I couldn't find any ads with prices for new 1939 medium/larger English models, but secondhand prices would suggest they were quite a lot above the American low-price models. The larger English cars sold in much lower numbers than the US cars.
Even though in 1939 English makes outsold American ones by 3 to 2, American cars dominated the large car sector, the two biggest sellers were Ford and Chevrolet with the combined Mopar models a distant third. Because so many Fords were hotrodded (or became racing stockcars) the survival rate today of Chevs and Mopars of that era is higher than that of Fords.
A Studebaker Commander, a car not much bigger than the Plymouth was quite a lot dearer.
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Regarding why buyers would choose an American car over a British one in 1939. Simple answer - price. Anything British with comparable power and size to a 'regular' American car - e g Ford, Chev, Dodge etc - cost at least half as much again. American cars dominated the NZ large car market up to WW2. During the war there was a steady trickle of new trucks (and a handful of cars) coming into NZ, mostly for the military, that the UK was unable to supply.
The outbreak of war was a sort of coincidence as far as the NZ car market was concerned. Partly I think due to the very brief worldwide downturn in 1938 which had an effect on US car as sales as well, NZ suffered a 'balance of payments crisis', which led to the government introducing a whole raft of sever import restrictions, on all sorts of products, which led to the situation that most of us who grew up in the 1950s-1970s learned to live with where many things were either simply not available or were very expensive. I should add though that nobody went hungry and there was near full employment. This led to increasing numbers of British cars on the road as tariffs favoured British Empire products. Post WW2 dollar restrictions caused American cars to drop to a very small percentage of the overall market. The opening up of the economy that began in the 1980s led to NZ going from one of the most restricted markets to nearly the most unrestricted market in the world.
As far as the situation of US plants building right hand drive cars, of course they all did up until the gradual change to left hand drive that happened mostly before WW1. Practically all makes continued to offer right hand drive cars for export. GM's Tarrytown, NY, plant, one of the oldest in the industry, supplied rhd stuff for export quite until late in the piece (up to 1970s maybe?).
I presume there were a few cars not available in right hand drive. The only Packard Twin Sixes I have seen photos of in NZ were left hand drive.
This photo taken in Rotorua of a group of hire cars used to show visitors around the area shows two left hand drive cars - at the back a circa 1915 Chalmers and in the middle at the front I think might be a Reo. The others were models obviously readily available in right hand drive, at the back an Oldsmobile and at the front A Studebaker Big Six and a Cadillac. The second photo shows another Chalmers.
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Todds were the NZ agents for all Chrysler products for a long time and began local assembly in 1935. The company had its origins in a small country garage in Heriot in Central Otago.
Some good info here - click on the Motor Industry page - History - Todd Corporation
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1931 wire wheel hub cap.
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13 hours ago, MetroPetro said:
1906 Oldsmobile Model S - thank you to Varun Coutinho for the id.
[Dr. A.R. Baker at the wheel of his Model "S" Oldsmobile] - City of Vancouver Archives
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New Zealand 1926.
Maybe a Graham Brothers truck on the left. Or could it be a Reo?
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23 hours ago, Rata Road said:
Is there a site which would tell me where my 39 Dodge was built.
I would like to confirm mine was built in Canada.
Engine number D1203004 (original) and Body 9392919.
The reason I ask is I have discovered a 39 Desoto here in NZ which has the same basic look, headlights & body shape etc but it is a floor change, has a different speedo and the number plate light in the centre of the boot isnt a 2nd tail light like the Dodge is.
I am wondering if the Desoto is a NZ build using some earlier left over parts.
The Desoto original engine number is 2083 and chassis 9604614
Thanks
Can you post a photo of your car?
I suspect the fourth digit in the engine number you quoted should be a C and not a 0. That would define it as a Canadian built car - assuming it has a 25-inch block.
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Here is a long wheelbase '39 Plymouth in service as a taxi at Taeiri Airport near Dunedin in 1947. I guess the '37 is also a long wheelbase model as well.
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Just to show that not all '39 Mopars were Plymouth-based here is a 1939 Chrysler Royal converted to run on gas during the war.
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Just for interest a few photos from the Centennial Exhibition held in Wellington in 1940. Even though the country was at war there is no doubt that the exhibition had been a long time in planning and went ahead anyway. I wonder what happened to the 1940 Chrysler. As likely as not it was impressed into the military.
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19 hours ago, Fordy said:
T.J Richards in Adelaide Australia built Chrysler bodies for the local market (and possibly export to N.Z. - look on the driver's seat riser for a Richards body tag. They "rationalised" output by utilising common sheet metal across different makes. Holdens body builders did the same with GM products - so a Chev and a Vauxhall for example could have shared fenders.
Richards built the body on a few of my Hupps as they were imported in a stripped down form to reduce tarrifs
Richards eventually morphed into Chrysler Australia until they shut down local production in the late 1970's and Mitsubishi took over the factory.
The New Zealand and Australian markets were unrelated (primarily due to the Australian rules insisting on local bodies) and any Australian-built cars from that era to be found in NZ will be later private imports. I have a 1934 Holden body Buick that came to NZ in 1946. I believe there is the odd Richards body Mopar here.
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The majority of the lower price Mopars for NZ were sourced from Canada but not all of them. Todds only began local assembly in 1935 so anything up then will have arrived already built up.
My copy of The Standard Catalog of American cars suggests that most of the Dodge D12s were actually built in the US, with Plymouth supplying the bodies, chassis and running gear. Apparently nearly 6,800 D12s were built of which 3,438 had right hand drive. Of the total, 3,885 were exported as CKD kits. (Another 10,328 were built in the Windsor Canada plant for Canada.)
The whole business of export Mopars is a can of worms. Post war we had various models from a variety of sources. I have seen a 1952 Dodge Kingsway that was built in Detroit according to its data plate.
The major difference between US and Canadian sourced cars from 1939 is the engine. Canada only built 25-inch blocks, so the 1939 Plymouths and Plymouth-based cars built in Canada have a 201 version of the 25-inch block and the US cars have the 23-inch block. People have been buying wrong head gaskets ever since.
I have accumulated several photos of 1939 Mopars but have not seen their data plates. I only know the information that has been supplied for registration purposes, which is available on carjam but we all know that the info is often incorrect. Many often rubbish carjam but the fault lies with whoever supplied the information at the start.
As far as how many were sold in NZ I do have the registration figures. As far as I know there were no 1940 Mopars sold here new as once NZ declared war on 3 September 1939 all orders for new cars were cancelled. Any cars registered new in 1940 will be late registrations of 1939 cars. The figures will likely include a few were late registrations of 1938 models.
New registrations - Plymouth 1939 - 374, 1940 - 16
Dodge 1939 - 497, 1940 - 99
DeSoto 1939 - 361, 1940 - 17
Chrysler 1939 - 270, 1940 - 32
Also of that total (1662) the great majority will be Plymouth-based models, even the Chryslers. I know there were a few Dodge D11 Luxury Liners imported but not a lot. There were always a handful of used cars being privately imported and it wasn't until 1962 that they were recorded separately.
As far as the use of the term 'left over parts', the is no reason to suggest that as they are 1939 cars using 1939 parts.
Attached a few local cars. I suspect all would originally have had square headlamps, but many have been converted to more readily available round ones.
Photo credits to a variety of photographers, some from Flicker and others who have posted on various local facebook pages.
The Chrysler registered BJ7195 is currently for sale on TradeMe for NZ$30k. Even though it is badged Chrysler its engine is a P7C.
Chassis numbers of those with visible registrations numbers are readily found on carjam - Report - BJ7195 - 1939 CHRYSLER PLYMOUTH in Black | CARJAM
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12 hours ago, MetroPetro said:
Wolseleys on the left. They did a complex range of models in the 1930s. The closest car looks to be a mid-size four cylinder model which shared its body with the contemporary Morris. In the middle looks to be the big 25 (RAC) hp six and at the back a small 10 hp four. Some info here - Wolseley Series III | The Wolseley Owners Club Archive
On the right look to be a range of models from the Audi/DKW stable.
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Similar style to those used on late 1930s Chevs but they could be aftermarket?
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Each Chrysler series used different head lamps. The barely visible peak on these lamps suggests to me 1926 Model 70. It looks to be from before the wheel size was dropped from 20" to 18".
Another thing unique to the 70 is the tubular front axle - visible in the photo.
The FEDCO dash number will tell the build month.
This is a 1926 G70.
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From a facebook page - "Turistas en la Hacienda Juanita en Maricao PR, 1915".
Looks to be Pope-Hartford, Hudson and Maxwell.
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I can see a 1934-35 Buick at right closest to camera.
The big tow-tone roadster behind the sedan might be a Studebaker.
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Borrowed from the AACA Facebook page. One suggestion is the car is a Peerless.
I darkened the photo a little in order to be able to read the written text.
Whether the number 17 is a registration number, or an event participant number, is not stated.
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It has right hand drive and a plate I don't recognise.
Update - since I posted this I have been informed the photo was taken in Hungary.
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I posted this one on the 'what is it' page a couple of days ago but there was no response. I passed it on to Varun Coutinho who came up with the answer.
The pic as posted on an NZ facebook page - suggestions of Overland but the hubs didn't match -
An update - it is indeed an Overland, a 1912 Torpedo. The New Mexico photo was mislabeled as a Case.
Varun came up with this one from New Mexico for comparison -
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Thanks to Varun Coutinho this one has been identified - a 1913 Case 40 hp. (1) Facebook
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Period images to relieve some of the stress
in Period Photos - Pre WWII
Posted
The upper photo looks to be an eight cylinder 1930 Graham.
In the lower photo is a 1929 Studebaker Commander GJ, the last of the six cylinder Commanders. The cabriolet was probably a rare sight even when new - total production of the model in all of the many body styles (13 of them) was only 16,000.