1938 McLaughlin Buick

[Guest BJM]

Did Mclaughlin still "make" a Buick in 1938, or were they simply Buicks? In the earlier days, a McLaughlin Buick was typically a longer wheelbase car, correct? On the equivalent of a Roadmaster. By 1938, would they have made Mclaughlins as Specials, especially considering the Depression. Or would it likely be a longer wheelbase, decently equipped model?

[Guest ewing]

I checked with GM Canada on my 38 McLaughlin and all they could tell me is that it was assembled in Oshawa. It is a Special series, 122 inch wheelbase, virtually the same as the US counterpart as far as I know. What I did hear was that Canada typically got the surplus year end inventory for trim and such so some of the 38 McLaughlins had 37 trim, such as the hub caps.

I have never dug any deeper into its origins, but I can say with some certainty that its all original so if I can share info on part numbers I will. At this time its tucked away for the winter and I won't be seeing it til about mid April ( unless the weatherman brings us an early spring).

John

[The Old Guy]

Mclaughlin Buicks of that era had many subtle changes from their american counterparts. They ran a 6 lug wheel like the old Chevy trucks, and the standard american hubcaps would not fit. Thay also had different trim. The stainless would not interchange.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Jake - the initial McLaughlins were chassis and drivetrain by Buick, body by McLaughlin. By 1929, essentially just trim was different.

As far as I understand, McLaughlin essentially became GM of Canada...all Canadian Buicks that I'm aware of that are Pre-War are considered McLaughlins or McLaughlin-Buicks. As far as I know, all post-war Canadian cars were just identified as Buicks.

[Guest ewing]

You are right as to the wheels, mine are 16 inch, 6 lug rims.

My ser # is 844190497. Another guy in town here had a 38 McLaughlin ser# 844190479. That car went to Florida.

John

[Guest BJM]

Interesting comments. I keep looking at that inventory list from Reynolds Museum in Alberta province I believe. They have a 38 McLaughlin I don't think they specify which series and I did not even know if there were "series" in McLaughlin-Buicks.

All of their other McLaughlins are from the late teens are basically skeletons as I have photos of some of them.

[Guest ewing]

The other identifying trim for the McLaughlin , at least on mine is the centre fron bumper 'badge' has words McLaughlin across top and BUICK across the bottom, with a large 8 and a diagonal spear thru it , designating a straight 8. the US version is the same but no McLaughlin name, of course.

On the rear trunk badge, it also has the words McLaughlin Buick, where the US version, again just has Buick letters embossed on it.

Kind of neat as these look the same from a distance, but the Canadian badges are clear on the cars Canadian heritage.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

John - speaking of '38s around here, do you happen to know what happened to that coupe we'd gone to take a peak at? I guess I shouldn't use the word coupe, as I'm not sure what it was...it was a 2 door...some days I think I should have gotten that car, but if I remember correctly, it didn't have seating for 5, which I need if only to avoid rebellion in the house.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

To all above:

Yes, there are different series of McLaughlins just like Buick. In 2002, there was a 1938 90 series McLaughlin there at Kokomo. I was on the team judging in that class and the rest of the team said "Oh, Dave knows all about McLaughlins, so he can advise us what's different." Yeah, WRONG. When we got there, I'll let you guess how relieved I was to see that placard in the window that said "Display Only, Do Not Judge".

The McLaughlins sold 49 % of the McLaughlin Motor Car Co. to GM in 1918, and the other 51% in 1922. I actually found a copy of the letter with the financial details in George William McLaughlin's archives at Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, this past August. Thi is the official name change point of the company, but the badge name was used until WW2. Incidentally, the British royal family drove RHD McLaughlin Buick big series cars throughout the 1930's.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Derek:

The very first Buicks sent to McLaughlin that I can find were several 1907 Model D's and S's that left Buick Jan. 18, 1908. The interesting comment that was in the actual Buick records says "bodies without trim or paint." Since the engine and frame numbers of these cars and the date of body mounting is specifically recorded, I would think they were just what Buick said they were, complete cars, but unfinished.

There are some records that indicate cars every which way, bodies by Buick, bodies at McLaughlin with Buick pieces, and bodies by others (Conboy) that are mixtures of Buick pieces and McLaughlin designed parts. I've come to the conclusion that it looks a lot like Rolls-Royce bodies, the customer says what he wants and McLaughlin does it. The British royal cars, the King George 1939's, and many more are good examples.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear 3Jakes:

Your comment about the difference with longer wheelbases is specifically in error. McLaughlin got their frames from Buick and the wheelbases were the same. I matched the 1908 thru 1914 McLaughlin catalogue descriptions and specifications for McLaughlins to the ones for the same year and model for Buick. They are identical. The only difference was the 1911 McLaughlin Electrics, which are on a Rauch and Lang chassis !! Has anyone EVER seen one of those?

I can't tell you that McLaughlin never built a custom wheel base job, but it would be exceedingly rare. The only specific difference was the Buick Model 2A truck seems to be a shorter wheelbase than the McLaughlin Model 11 truck, per the catalogues.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Dave - a friend of mine teaches chemistry at Queen's.

This is the first I've heard of a McLaughlin electric, but a local fellow here (who recently purchased a Model 90...'41 I think) has a Detroit Electric that he's working on.

[The Old Guy]

I read somewhere that the whisky runners during prohibition preferred McLaughlin Buicks over their americsn counterpart because the bodies were lighter which made them a little faster.

[Guest BJM]

Dave,

I don't have much to go on for the McLaughlin but most articles I have read or seen seem to "imply" they were a premium car over the standard Buicks. 1922. Then I am not sure why they continued to have McLaughlin Buick badges on them? Except that as a sub-brand maybe, with reputation and dealer network, Buick was content to leave well enough alone.

The Reynolds Museum that has this car has seperate sections of cars for sale for Buick and then for McLaughlin Buick so it must have McLaughlin badging on it and the specific lugged wheels.

Any 38 Buick is a nice looking car for sure but I was kind of hoping that McLaughlin only used the higher end chassis and bigger straight eights in their cars, but this 38 they have may be a Special.

[Guest ewing]

Derek,

I don't know what happened after we looked at the 38 coupe. My guess is its still there as I had seen that car a couple of years before we went there. Same guy.

It was a coupe with 2 'jump seats' in the back as I recall.... still not enough seats unless you have 3 int the front.

Remember that the rear fenders were fibreglass molded in to the body. It did have rechromed bumpers and an original radio c/w correct dials, and if I remember right it had a great steering wheel. Do you still have the contact info?? should give him a call.

John

[Guest imported_Thriller]

I remember repairs to the rear fenders...didn't realize it was fiberglass. I may have the contact info around, but if I do, it would be good and buried...I need a decent furniture / shelving / filing solution for my den so I can actually have a place for everything.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Derek:

You weren't half as surprised to see my comment about McLaughlin Electrics as I was to see the catalogue for them in George W. McLaughlin's archives. My reaction was somewhere between "HUH???" and "Oh, heavens." It was one of the items that took me a couple of weeks to digest while I was on vacation, and led me to conclude that the GM of Canada production figures may have been "sanitized" a bit.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest OracleUK]

Found this thread on a trawl!

1. The McLaughlin electricts were Rauch & Lang, imported by and sold by the McLaughlin Carriage Co Ltd., especially from their Toronto dealership though there were others.

2. The McLaughlin name was dropped after 1941, and by that year the big cars were imported from Flint and had, as happened in post-war period with imported cars, GM of Canada plates. Thus the big 90 series Limited limos as used by Canadian Generals, etc. were actually US-built!

3. The McLaughlin-Buick description was used on export McLaughlins from 1921 and by 1924 the domestic cars were also rebadged as McLaughlin-Buicks. However the British cars may have been badged as "Buicks" from 1932 to 1939 ... they were replated in London by Lendrum & Hartman although the company did import a few US Buicks as well as the Oshawa product.

[Guest johnnyroad]

This is an old thread but further to the topic (38 McLaughlin Buicks) I could definitely use accurate information.

I bought a Model 4427 (Opera Coupe) last autumn and am gearing up to possibly do an engine rebuild this winter. The car is a decent amateur restoration, not quite completed due to the death of the previous owner and I bought it as a driver, not a show car, but would prefer to stay as original as is practical. Given the rarity of the car this may be a somewhat forlorn hope.

It runs surprisingly well - reasonable power and smooth - but throws oil out the breather and all the indications are that the rings are either stuck or worn. The oil pressure isn't bad but if I go to the trouble of pulling it, I'll do the whole thing. Some of the other threads stated that these 248's were imported from Detroit however I do have the 38 McB Shop Manual (which came with the car) and the compression ratio is given as 6.1 to 1, max bhp 107 @ 3400 which I'm told is less than the USA rating.

Since the only parts source is going to be US, NOS or repro, I'd sure appreciate any tips as to possible differences from the Oshawa engines, as well as who to stay away from in shopping around. Would also like to know what the original engine color would have been as this one is black, whereas the restos are shown a dark green. One of the illustrations in the Shop Manual shows a right side view with the "Buick Dynaflash 8 oil cushioned valve - in - head" decals but I've also been told that the McL's didn't come with that marking. Does anyone know?

I do hate to trouble people and would buy the appropriate historical reference books if I knew where to find them. To date I haven't even been able to decode the firewall data plate codes, such as Trim 237 and Paint 806. Thank God for the internet.

Any and all help much appreciated.

[Guest ewing]

first I'd suggest that there are plenty of parts and access to parts that keeping it 'original' is not as difficult as you might imagine. The internet and instant connection to other Buick people will bear that out.

As for the engine colour, it was dark green, yours may be a rebuild, or been replaced at some time.

Check the engine # on the lower passenger side, near the dip stick to find the #. People here can then tell you if it is the right engine that came with the car.

I'll check my trim codes later, and let you know what I find... unless someone else finds it before I do.

Not sure about the comment..

Shop Manual shows a right side view with the "Buick Dynaflash 8 oil cushioned valve - in - head" decals but I've also been told that the McL's didn't come with that marking....

I have never heard that before.

Maybe someone else can comment on that.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Johnny:

I can help you with info. You need to post the following information:

Does the body data plate specifically say "GM of Canada" on it? There will be a set of numbers on it that help.

Find the engine number stamped (not cast) on the engine. It's down by the distributor on a small flat machined surface that you may havee to clean to read.

If the body data plate indicates that the car is a USA Buick, there will be a small plate on top of the right frame rail just behind the battery. It's tough to see and needs careful hand cleaning with solvents.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest johnnyroad]

Thank you for the prompt input, most encouraging. The serial number of the original engine is given on the firewall data plate and I was wondering where I might find it on the block. Went out to the garage to check on mine but wasn't able to see it near the dipstick on the RH side.

The block casting flares out there to form a flange for the sump cover, the bolts for which are accommodated by raised areas in the casting at each bolt location. Cleaned the area off between the raised bosses, which lies right under the coil, but could not see any sign of a number stamped there.

Of course its not easy to get at, sandwiched between the battery box and engine block, and the bottom view is inaccessible due to the protective baffle (something I haven't seen before), but I had a good light and could not see any numbers anywhere. The block, as well as the valve cover and spark plug cover, are definitely painted black, but, as you say, its very likely this engine has been rebuilt sometime in the last 72 years.

As for the questionable comments, I've had a number of people in the local antique car movement tell me various things about McBuicks (as they call them) but there's an aura of vagueness about it all. None is old enough to actually remember them and there is so much false information floating around out there ......

Anyway, thanks once again for the encouraging comments.

Best Regards,

DGH

[Guest johnnyroad]

Dave - sorry, I just noticed your message. Yes the firewall data plate is a "General Motors of Canada" one and references the various factories, Oshawa, Walkerville and Regina. Quite an impressive looking plate actually, fully up to aircraft standards.

There's a serial number given for the body on this plate (32) but I haven't seen a separate plate on the body itself, like the "Fisher" plate on my 76 Skylark. As I mentioned above, there's no serial number visible on the block under the distributor, or coil, so I may have to wait until the unit is removed and cleaned up to be able to find it.

I'd be surprised if its the original engine but one never knows. The car itself is proving to be quite original, which given it's age, is unexpected. Anyway, I'm grateful for the information supplied.

Its quite astonishing to me that there's no history of McBuicks been written to date. Older people who remember them (non car people) are delighted with this old girl and their faces light up when they see it. It seems lots of people had a rich uncle etc. who had one. During the dirty thirties there weren't many people who could afford a car in this price range.

I would attach some snapshots of the car, if I knew how to do so. In any event, thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply.

Best Regards,

Dave H.

[Guest P.M.O.]

Did Mclaughlin still "make" a Buick in 1938, or were they simply Buicks? In the earlier days, a McLaughlin Buick was typically a longer wheelbase car, correct? On the equivalent of a Roadmaster. By 1938, would they have made Mclaughlins as Specials, especially considering the Depression. Or would it likely be a longer wheelbase, decently equipped model?

This might help you know about McLaughlin and GM of Canada. McLaughlin Buicks were up until 1942 after that GM dropped the name McLaughlin.

[Guest P.M.O.]

Dear 3Jakes:

Your comment about the difference with longer wheelbases is specifically in error. McLaughlin got their frames from Buick and the wheelbases were the same. I matched the 1908 thru 1914 McLaughlin catalogue descriptions and specifications for McLaughlins to the ones for the same year and model for Buick. They are identical. The only difference was the 1911 McLaughlin Electrics, which are on a Rauch and Lang chassis !! Has anyone EVER seen one of those?

I can't tell you that McLaughlin never built a custom wheel base job, but it would be exceedingly rare. The only specific difference was the Buick Model 2A truck seems to be a shorter wheelbase than the McLaughlin Model 11 truck, per the catalogues.

Regards, Dave Corbin

McLaughlin built his cars with Buick motors for the first 15 years starting in 1908.only after Fisher Body started shipping parts to McLaughlin were all buicks simular on the outside. McLaughlin interiors were coachwork and this is why McLaughlin built for Royalty through out the world.

[Guest johnnyroad]

These production figures are very interesting and I thank you for posting them. At 5081 units the total Canadian Buick production for 1938 is astonishingly low, being less than one thirtieth of the total USA Buick production listed for that year. Given the fact that the Canadian population in 1938 was roughly one twelfth the American, it doesn't seem to have been a very good year for McLaughlin built Buick's.

I haven't found any further technical information on these cars and still have more questions than answers. The body of opinion on this site appears to be that by 1938 the Canadian built cars were essentially identical to the US ones.

It would be most interesting to know where, apart from badges, the cars differed and which parts were manufactured from raw materials in Canada. To do nothing more than a nuts and bolts assembly of Detroit parts in this country doesn't make sense. The added transportation would merely increase costs. I suppose, however, that the prewar protectionist environment, prior to the auto pact, might explain it.

[pepcak]

My limited experience with 1928 Master model says that Buicks built in US / Canada were mechanically identical, i.e. parts from engine and chassis interchange almost 100%. Canadian built cars have own serial (or chassis) numbers, but engine numbers are part of row of numbers issued for plates for US built engines. That suggests that at least engine assemblies were exported to Canada from US. Dave Corbin on this page is a guru and can give better / detailed picture how scheme worked. I understand that these 2 were almost identical from early 20s on.

To the cost increase by transportation you suggest - if the Canadian output was 1/30 of US volume then very likely cost of transportation was still less than to tool the car (castings, sheet metal parts) in Canada and ammortise that investment into significantly smaller amount of products.

[Guest johnnyroad]

Yes that's certainly true in terms of the manufacture of parts specific to Buick's. The total Canadian production of GM cars in 1938 is given as approximately 45 thousand, which would justify a certain amount of tooling, but not much.

One wonders why the low volume cars like Buick's were not just imported directly into Canada as completed units, but it was likely a result of the protectionist economic environment which then existed throughout the world.

I haven't studied Economic history for almost 50 years but vaguely recall that a number of US companies - like Boeing Aircraft - set up branch plants in Canada before the war to get around the British Empire tariff system of the time.

If the products were "manufactured" in Canada, they could be sold throughout the "Empire", as it was then called, at preferential rates. And of course Ford and Chrysler had plants here also, for basically the same reasons, though no doubt there were other factors that came into play as well.

In any event, I'll attach some snapshots of this particular McLaughlin Buick taken in September in my garage. I have a new found respect for it's likely rarity, given the low production figures.

[Guest P.M.O.]

These production figures are very interesting and I thank you for posting them. At 5081 units the total Canadian Buick production for 1938 is astonishingly low, being less than one thirtieth of the total USA Buick production listed for that year. Given the fact that the Canadian population in 1938 was roughly one twelfth the American, it doesn't seem to have been a very good year for McLaughlin built Buick's.

I haven't found any further technical information on these cars and still have more questions than answers. The body of opinion on this site appears to be that by 1938 the Canadian built cars were essentially identical to the US ones.

It would be most interesting to know where, apart from badges, the cars differed and which parts were manufactured from raw materials in Canada. To do nothing more than a nuts and bolts assembly of Detroit parts in this country doesn't make sense. The added transportation would merely increase costs. I suppose, however, that the prewar protectionist environment, prior to the auto pact, might explain it.

I found your Question of Canadian Build of Buick funny because you neglected to count the 30,752 Chevrolet's,6,473 Pontiac's ,2,625 Oldsmobile's,9,955 Chevrolet trucks ,1,108 gmc trucks. My guess GM Canada was holding on to the start of the USA depression at that time and yes the Fisher body plants sending parts to Canada were busy as were thy into the 60's the parts were shipped with tags not fit for build in the USA ship to Canada. GM had a reputation back then of bad build but GM of Canada was able to maintain one of the best builds through to to-day. Take another look at total build from 1908 to 1973 8,881,229 Domestic and Export were build and we in Canada were fighting a War in 1939 that GM Canada was building War production not counted in this document. The USA had nothing to do with the North Atlantic War for a long time. But McLaughlin Buick was that until 1942.

[Guest P.M.O.]

Yes that's certainly true in terms of the manufacture of parts specific to Buick's. The total Canadian production of GM cars in 1938 is given as approximately 45 thousand, which would justify a certain amount of tooling, but not much.

One wonders why the low volume cars like Buick's were not just imported directly into Canada as completed units, but it was likely a result of the protectionist economic environment which then existed throughout the world.

I haven't studied Economic history for almost 50 years but vaguely recall that a number of US companies - like Boeing Aircraft - set up branch plants in Canada before the war to get around the British Empire tariff system of the time.

If the products were "manufactured" in Canada, they could be sold throughout the "Empire", as it was then called, at preferential rates. And of course Ford and Chrysler had plants here also, for basically the same reasons, though no doubt there were other factors that came into play as well.

In any event, I'll attach some snapshots of this particular McLaughlin Buick taken in September in my garage. I have a new found respect for it's likely rarity, given the low production figures.

I would say your car is one nice piece of art, you will find that McLaughlin built all the cars for Royalty over the Years and GM of Canada was able to ship with a tariff at 22% to the Commonwealth ,and British Empire and not 33% because The USA was still considered a breakaway colony. McLaughlin carriage Company was known throughout the world as Quality built product, Durant was able to work a contract with R.S.McLaughlin to build his cars with the motors and transmissions from Buick Motor Company in the USA for 15 years in 1908. Durant with Contract in hand was able to convince Bankers and others to start the GM holding Company. Durant lost his job with GM in 1910 and started Chevrolet with L.Chevrolet and went back to McLaughlin in Canada to build a superior Chevrolet this started in 1915, Durant traded in stocks and at 5 Chevrolet stocks for one GM, was able to gain GM back in 1918 and turn it into a Car Company in 1918. Durant returned to Canada and bought out McLaughlin for GM and it became the only plant to have started GM in 1908. My Question why is GM in the USA 100 now? GM Car Company started in 1918.

[Guest P.M.O.]

Dave - sorry, I just noticed your message. Yes the firewall data plate is a "General Motors of Canada" one and references the various factories, Oshawa, Walkerville and Regina. Quite an impressive looking plate actually, fully up to aircraft standards.

There's a serial number given for the body on this plate (32) but I haven't seen a separate plate on the body itself, like the "Fisher" plate on my 76 Skylark. As I mentioned above, there's no serial number visible on the block under the distributor, or coil, so I may have to wait until the unit is removed and cleaned up to be able to find it.

I'd be surprised if its the original engine but one never knows. The car itself is proving to be quite original, which given it's age, is unexpected. Anyway, I'm grateful for the information supplied.

Its quite astonishing to me that there's no history of McBuicks been written to date. Older people who remember them (non car people) are delighted with this old girl and their faces light up when they see it. It seems lots of people had a rich uncle etc. who had one. During the dirty thirties there weren't many people who could afford a car in this price range.

I would attach some snapshots of the car, if I knew how to do so. In any event, thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply.

Best Regards,

Dave H.

I would like to add Buick build in 1938 was 4 dr sdn was 14,189 conv cpe 694 spt cpe 2030 chassis 762 2d sdn 1393 phaeton 219. I would think your car came as chassis in 2dr sdn 762?build in Canada considered to be CCCA Classics One of the best all-around Buick's of the period. Edited November 21, 2010 by P.M.O. (see edit history)

[Guest P.M.O.]

Found this thread on a trawl!

1. The McLaughlin electricts were Rauch & Lang, imported by and sold by the McLaughlin Carriage Co Ltd., especially from their Toronto dealership though there were others.

2. The McLaughlin name was dropped after 1941, and by that year the big cars were imported from Flint and had, as happened in post-war period with imported cars, GM of Canada plates. Thus the big 90 series Limited limos as used by Canadian Generals, etc. were actually US-built!

3. The McLaughlin-Buick description was used on export McLaughlins from 1921 and by 1924 the domestic cars were also rebadged as McLaughlin-Buicks. However the British cars may have been badged as "Buicks" from 1932 to 1939 ... they were replated in London by Lendrum & Hartman although the company did import a few US Buicks as well as the Oshawa product.

I would suggest this would help on who built. But Buicks from Canada were stripped of the McLaughlin name and L@H were put on the cars for this Dealership

Edited November 22, 2010 by P.M.O.
addition (see edit history)

[Guest johnnyroad]

P.M.O. - thank you for providing additional information. Since posting the above I have received some very useful data from Mr. Harry Logan of the 37/38 Buick Club re the specific differences between the Detroit and Oshawa cars but am still looking for a reference to the codes for trim and paint given on the original data plate. This car is apparently painted in what was marketed as "Botticelli Blue" on USA cars but I don't know if that was code 806 or not.

The serial number raises questions as well since by the Detroit code it should have been the 8206th Buick built that year and your production figures give the total of cars produced during the whole year as only 5081.

Best Regards,

DGH

[Guest P.M.O.]

P.M.O. - thank you for providing additional information. Since posting the above I have received some very useful data from Mr. Harry Logan of the 37/38 Buick Club re the specific differences between the Detroit and Oshawa cars but am still looking for a reference to the codes for trim and paint given on the original data plate. This car is apparently painted in what was marketed as "Botticelli Blue" on USA cars but I don't know if that was code 806 or not.

The serial number raises questions as well since by the Detroit code it should have been the 8206th Buick built that year and your production figures give the total of cars produced during the whole year as only 5081.

Best Regards,

DGH

This is the build for Canadian, GM of Canada and would not include the USA build.

[Guest johnnyroad]

Right. My car is a GM Canada built vehicle, so the serial number stamped into the firewall data plate, which is 8-44278206, if I understand the matter correctly means: (8)1938; (4) Buick; (4) Special; (27) Sport Coupe; (8206) serial number 8206. This latter number is higher, according to the production figures you kindly provided, than the total GM Canada built Buick's for all of 1938. Since this is clearly wrong, I can only conclude that GM Canada used a different method of allocating serial numbers than GM Detroit.

[Thriller]

Johnnyroad,

Try looking up Ken McGee in Goderich, ON. He sells automotive literature and if there was anything on the McLaughlin Buicks of 1938, he'd be more likely to have it than anyone else.

You may want to consider checking with GM of Canada Archives. As Ewing stated, they have limited information, but they may be able to give you a name for the paint and such. There is a fee for their services.

Another thought is joining the McLaughlin Buick Club of Canada, not to mention the Buick Club of America. Both of these clubs have good people and very nice periodicals, although the former may have more access to McL-B information.

McLaughlin - Only the Best. The McLaughlins had built a considerable reputation for their carriages and when they decided to get into automobiles, one attempt failed when their engineer got ill. They ultimately decided upon Buick drivelines and the relationship began. I was pleased to be able to attend the centennial in Oshawa in 2008.

[Guest johnnyroad]

Derek - those are all good suggestions and I thank you for taking the time to pass them on. I do plan to join the McB Club in the new year, and perhaps the USA Buick Club also, though their interest in prewar cars, judging by the website, appears to be slight. Didn't realize that the present GM Canada even had an archives so will pursue that as well.

Am still surprised at how little information is available on this cars. Having spent a lifetime involved in aviation and aviation history, where the records are by comparison, excellent, it was a shock to find that finding specifics on something so mainstream as cars is a bit of a black hole.

Thanks once again,

Dave H.

[Guest P.M.O.]

Derek - those are all good suggestions and I thank you for taking the time to pass them on. I do plan to join the McB Club in the new year, and perhaps the USA Buick Club also, though their interest in prewar cars, judging by the website, appears to be slight. Didn't realize that the present GM Canada even had an archives so will pursue that as well.

Am still surprised at how little information is available on this cars. Having spent a lifetime involved in aviation and aviation history, where the records are by comparison, excellent, it was a shock to find that finding specifics on something so mainstream as cars is a bit of a black hole.

Thanks once again,

Dave H.

GM history is one big hole because Cadillac was thought to be a USA built only Car and the USA would not want it to be anything else. McLaughlin /Buick was thought to be Buick only too, built in the USA. Chevrolet bought out GM in 1918 when Durant Dupont and McLaughlin used the Chevrolet stock to buy up enough GM stock to take it over. Chevrolet owned GM holding company and Durant felt GM Car Company should be the name. until the new GM. The fact that GM bought out McLaughlin 1922 had 49% of McLaughlin in 1918. Durant bought into McLaughlin with Buick stock in 1908, started Chevrolet in 1915 and GM started as a car Company in 1918 and GM of Canada started in 1908 shows me the hole needs to be corrected.