I need of help with my 383

[00w24w]

I recently inherited a 1964 Dodge Custom 880 with a 2bbl. and a 383. I drained the fuel tank (bad, bad,bad),installed a new fuel pump, removed all thelines and blew them out, checked for spark and fired it up. It fired, after some love, but ran like crap, and smelled worse. I have timed it, checked everything electrical for correctneww, installed new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points--the coil is fine.

It always ran the same, kinda crappy, until my friend got in it, started it up, and immediately revved the snot out of it, put it in reverse, and drove it down the block. He came back in with the carb backfiring through the top.

I thought it might have sucked something in from the gas tank, so I changed the fuel filter and rebuilt the carb. Same thing--it will barely run, if at all. It will shut itself down, and, basically, run like crap. It backfires out the tailpipe in idle, randomly, and through the carb, if you can punp it up at all.

I really need help. I need to move this from where it is. I am a part-time mechanic (worked in a garage for a year or two and raced Camaros at the local track.) I have a feeling it sucked a valve from the revving, or broke a rocker (this happened to me on my 63 Impala years ago.)

Is this possible?

I know this is a long post but I am very frustrated.

Thank you all!

[ted sweet]

bent push rod.

[00w24w]

I took apart the upper valve train--the pushrods were fine. After rolling them on a piece of glass with a feeler gauge, I got nothing but sweetness. I reassembled everything and took off the hose from the gas tank to the fuel pump. Unless I was imagining it, I believe I picked something lodged in there out. I ran that line to a full 5 gallon gas can and refired. It fired after a squirt or two of carb clean while cranking and ran better than it ever has. There is a catch.

After shutting it off, it will not refire, unless prodded and primed, and a lot, I mean a lot of cranking. Once it was running and warmed up, I went to set the timing again. I unplugged the vacuum hose and plugged it, yet there was no change in the motor. No drop in RPM's. No matter how I moved the distributor, the mark on the dampner never changed. If I did go one way too farit would backfire. If I turned it toward the radiator, it did nothing. It will not restart unless throttled, ignition on, and either gas or carb clean sprayed into it. Once it is going, it runs OK. Just wondering if maybe the timing chain jumped some teeth and if my symptoms might be the result of this. I do not know....

No matter what I do, I cannot move it to 10 degrees--moving the distributor does nothing. I'm perplexed....

Someone help me.

Please realize the ODO reads 85K--who knows how many K....

[00w24w]

Oh, by the way, I only got one timing light to work for only a brief period of time--then it just went out. I tried two others (yes, I have 3) all of which are known to work and just worked yesterday, and none of them would strobe at all.

I have a giant headache....

[ted sweet]

even if the timing chain jumped you should be able to vary the timing. sounds like you light is bad. my guess is the timing is so off that moving a few degrees has no effect. find TDC and go from there.

[Guest JDHolmes]

Have you replaced the vacuum hoses? Replace all that old rubber. Also replace the steel vacuum lines.

Blowing out your old gas lines is probably part of the reason for your running issues. If the car had set up for a long time, the lines got gummed up. Running it now with previously gummed up lines is probably breaking chunks off (well, they're probably very small pieces) which is creating carb issues internally. I would redo the gas lines completely. I redid mine on a station wagon for about $30.

Check fire at every plug.

Backfiring through the pipes would indicate unused fuel hitting the hot exhaust and igniting. You replaced all the other ignition parts, why not the coil?

Why wouldn't timing light work? Well, it's pulsing on the fire of #1. If #1 is not firing, no pulse from the light. I'd drop it on another car to make sure the light is good, but it sounds like #1's not firing.

Vacuum lines or bad vacuum advance would explain the lack of change when unplugging and plugging hose.

I can't imagine a situation where you were turning the distributor and the timing is not changing. Even had you jumped time, you would still change timing with the distributor. Maybe if the distributor plate was not solidly attached and spinning around the shaft/cam.

[00w24w]

I finally got it running again. It will fire, and refire, as much as I want. Still backfires occassionally. Sometimes, badly. It sounds as if it is only running on 6 not 8. Got my timing light to work just fine--68 stang this morning was perfect with it. The 880 wouldn't shine until I brought it almost up to the cap. Never had that happen before. I gently slid it down the wire and it kept working. I set the timing @ 10 and it stayed running. Has A LOT of blowby. The plugs have 6 miles on them and look like I had pulled them out after 100,000 miles. It sounds like gas just is not being burnt. I'll try a new coil. I replaced the vacuum lines previous. Cannot get any suction out of the carb where the line is supposed to go--So I disconected the choke and plugged it in there. Ran better. I might add a line at the powere brake outlet--do not know. I am still really frustrated and I really, really, appreciate all the help. You guys have been great.

[ACowboy]

Listen, quit trying to install "new" things until you have found your problem! Your timing is off. This is why you are backfiring through the carb and exhaust. Take a second, step back, and think about what is going on. The gas is firing where the fumes are when the spark ignites. If either the intake valve or exhaust valve is open the ignition of the fumes causes the fire to go everywhere...up the intake valve if it is partly open or down the exhaust tube if the exhaust valve is partly open. The rest of your "running bad" is simply because the timing is off. Sorry, but it is that simple! Loosen the nut at the distributor and with a friend cranking the engine simply turn the distributor SLOWLY in one or the other direction until it is firing smoothly or at least the backfire is stopping. THEN use the timing light to narrow it down perfectly. If the timing is really bad the light won't help because you are too far off. The light is used to fine tune the timing when you get in in the general area. Otherwise, you think that you are at 10 degrees when you really are not. Make sure that the first cylinder is at TDC of the ignition stroke and look at the rotor to make sure that it is pointing at cylinder 1 on the distributor cap. Take a spark plug (any spark plug will do) and put it on each ignition wire. Have your friend crank the engine a little until you see a spark coming from each wire. If that is the case, no problem with the coil, rotor, distributor cap, ignition wires, or spark plugs. Only thing left is the timing and there is NOTHING to replace! You could have something as stupid as a broken point in the distributor cap OR you have the spark plug wires in the wrong position on the distributor cap. SO, stop buying stuff until you've checked your spark at the end of each spark plug wire, make sure that you have the ignition wires at the right place on the distributor cap (the right firing order) and then move on to the general timing (as mentioned above), and THEN to the fine tuning (with the light). You distributor could be 180 degrees off (completely turned around) and the engine would still fire and run horrible. This happened on my 68 Mustang after a rebuild. I thought I had the distrbutor on the right way, but it was a full 180 degrees backward. A very good friend and master mechanic turned the distributor a full 180 degrees and wham...purred like a kitten. Sometimes you just need to step back a minute and think. Some people think better with a cup of coffee...others with a case of beer.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

My turn... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you're fighting a number of things, including many years of hibernation

(stinky,varnished old fuel, etc.).

Would suggest running a compression check on all eight cylinders... it sounds like a valve sticking-open might be a possibility. You might be trying to solve a compression problem...

Would next suggest going back to square one, finding TDC, cleaning and adjusting the points

(should be gapped between .018" & .020"), making sure the plugs are wired in the correct order, installing a fresh set of plugs, then going from there.

If you're suspicious of vacuum leaks from bad hoses / components, label, then disconnect vacuum hoses from the various ports on the intake, and tape/plug the ports. Once you have the engine running reasonably well, you can move-on to re-hosing/connecting the various vacuum devices.

Take it easy revving an old, long-dormant engine like this...

Be methodical in your approach: a gasoline engine requires three things to run:

Fuel, Compression, Ignition ( in the proper amounts, at the proper time).

I don't believe big-block MoPars were known for jumping-time; unlike mid-'60s small-block Chevys, with their nylon-rimmed cam gears: could just about guarantee they'd eat a timing chain anytime after 80-90,000 miles... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Good luck with it... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

PS: Just re-read your initial post: the backfiring through the carb: is this sporadic or very regular ( related to a specific cylinder) ? I would suspect that when your buddy went for his little spin, an already sticky valve stuck "real good" once the engine got revved-up... I had this issue with my '41 De Soto: it had a valve that would stick once the engine was brought up off idle... and stay stuck until the engine was shut-down and allowed to cool. Often I would hear that valve suddenly snap shut after the engine had been shut-down for 10-15 minutes...

The valve would work fine if I just let the engine idle in the driveway... but if I would try to drive the car, increased rpms would cause said valve to open a little further, just enough to stick.

You might consider pulling the valve covers and seeing how must sludge/rust is lurking... also check for broken valve springs... about half were broken in my '60 Windsor when that came down for rebuild ( RB-383 ).

[LARRYCAROL]

desoto frank was right about going back to basics. I would also try static timing method. you set engine to tdc #1 & line up timing marks. then turn ignition on & turn distibutor till points arc. lock it down & you will be on time. its an old method but works good. hope this helps.