1939 Buick Roadmaster 81 SED

[Nitro]

Hello. In Russia we find the Buick Roadmaster 81 SED.

General Motors Continental S.A. Antverp.

Make BUICK

Model 81 SED 39

Engine 3627744

Chassis 13461921

Release 1230

What you know about this model?

What does it mean "Release 1230"?

How to find out original color of the automobile?

Where it is possible to find help materials?

I thank for any help.

I am sorry for my English.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Nitro:

First, your English is a whole lot better that my Russian, which I don't speak at all.

In answer to your questions, there's quite a bit of info in the numbers you gave as follows: The frame number of 1 3462921 tells me that your car was built by the main Buick plant in Flint Michigan. Based on their production records, the car was built probably early in December,1938. The engine number of 3627744 is probably preceeded by an 8 for a Roadmaster 80 series car. The engine was built late in November, 1938, so it would appear that the engine and the car match. The car was probably released from the Buick export department on Dec. 30, 1938, (in the USA, that date would be stamped as "1230" and not "3012", as would be the European date practice.)and was bound for a destination somewhere in Europe, as designated by the notation about General Motors at Antwerp.

It happens that I also own a 1939 Roadmaster built about 2 months after yours. I bought that car in 1978 and have collected literature for it ever since. As Of now, my literature collection for this car contains over 100 items for 1939 Roadmasters, so I'm probably equipped to answer virtually any question you may have about the car. Let me begin by asking you to post the information on the body plate, which is located in the engine compartment on the fire wall. It will have stamped into it a item that reads "Body number". For your car, I would estimate that this number will be around 1750. On the same plate, just under body number are 2 items. One reads "Trim Code" and the other reads "Paint code". Those numbers will enable me to tell you exactly what your car looked like new. Also, does your car have dual side mounted spare tires, a radio, and the small front fender parking lights? I can recommend suppliers to you for virtually any item you may need, IF anyone is making reproduction parts.

You should also join the Buick Club of America, which makes other technical advisors available to you. Go to "Buick Club of America" on the web, or I can help you with further information.

Regards, David F. Corbin, Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Buick Club of America member # 2756 (35 year member)

South Central Regional Director, Buick Club of America

[Nitro]

Hello Dave. At a forum www.auto.ru to me advised you as the expert. I am glad, what exactly you have responded. I have photo of the car. Probably they to you will tell that that still.

Roadmaster photo

I think that the car have dual side mounted spare tires, but previous owner has closed apertures on fenders.

On right side of auto we have plates "Body by Fisher".

Body by Fisher

And uder the hood this plate

Under hood

Try to find Trim code today or near days.

[Nitro]

Dave,one more question. On the Internet it is a lot of photo of the car outside. Very much it would be desirable to receive qualitative photos of interior. There can be at you they is?

my e-mail is HIDCORP@GMAIL.COM

[Nitro]

Dave, i find the plate what u talk.

BUICK MOTOR CORPORATION

FLINT.MICH.

1939 MOD

STYLE 39

BODY 1230

TRIM -----

PAINT 513

BODY BY FISHER

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Nitro:

I looked at your pictures for a few minutes this morning and am amazed at your find. The photo of the data plate wasn't very clear, but the data you gave tells me something. Could you re-check the Paint Code? I show a code of 531 as a dark green car, but don't show a 513 code. Code 513 was used on 1937 cars.

Trim Code ---- doesn't tell us much, except that there's something special about the interior. The 60 photos, however, are more revealing. In them is a picture of the car with the front passenger side door open, showing part of the interior of the car. That photo shows what I think is a tan or brown Bedford Cord cloth interior, which is a USA standard interior. For an export car, that interior would be a special order, because export cars normally had leather interiors. The trim number for the tan Bedford cord is 731. For your information, Tan Broadcloth interior is trim code 733.

Also, by private e-mail, I've asked the two of the most knowledgeable Buick people in the world to follow this thread.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Nitro]

Dave, thx for information.

The place near the Trim Code is empty. Probably it designates, what the machine completed already in the Europe?

About Paint Code. The plate very old also is badly readable.

Whether other variants of a digital combination are possible?

518 or x13 where X - various numbers

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Nitro:

The paint code 518 is for a 1938 Buick, which is possible as the European office might not have had the proper code when the car was ordered. Code 518 is for a color called by Buick "Titian Maroon". It's a deep Burgundy color, almost like a heavy red port wine. I have a Duco formula number for the paint.

I don't think Buick would ship a car without an interior in it, although some cars left without bodies and had bodies made by European body builders such as Gustav Nordberg in Sweden. If you look at "Me and My Buick" here on the website, you should find some pictures to inspire you.

The 1939 paint codes started with the number 530 and continued thru 540. Trim codes started at 700 and went thru 794, so there's a lot of choices. You might find some of the original paint under the door trim or behind the back seat.

Russia's a big place, about 2 1/2 times the size of the USA and crossing about 11 time zones. Can you be more specific about where you live? Also, in American slang "Nitro" is something we add to fuel for racing cars, use to blow out oil well fires or steal from a bank. Could you give me your right name, or as close to it as you can in English?

Also, I see from the pictures that the car was in some kind of storage shed or barn. Where did you find it and how far is that from where you live?

For your information, I am a mechanical engineer who is used to working in the Metric system, so if you measure something, I can use either the Metric measures or the English system. That will make it easier for you. However, you should remember that all bolts, trim screws, and machine screws are in our odd English system and will require American wrenches sized in the English system. For example, what you would think is a 13mm head on a bolt is actually one of our 9/16ths of an inch bolt heads. It may be a bit confusing at times. Also, don't lose anything, as our bolts and screws may be difficult to obtain in Russia.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Nitro]

Hello Dave.

I live in Saint Petersburg. We have found the car in Moscow. According to the owner it has got there before war and long time was kept in a bombproof shelter.

Then its history is unknown. Car is found out casually. Documents at it are not present. Whether probably find out as she has got to Russia.

It is confident, that the private person could not buy her.

Probably a code of a paint for the car used for 1938. You have written, that the machine is made at the end of 1938.

Value word Nitro is familiar to me. My true name Alexander.

The problem of distinction of systems of measurement too is familiar to us. If you were on a site www.Nordix.fotofile.ru could see a photo restored Chevrolet DelRay 1958. I think, that I can understand much of your advice though my English is not so good.

In the Internet we have found firm www.buick-parts.com trading in spare parts.

We would order the book what to have numbers of parts. Then we can speak about problems more precisely.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

Let me propose a first owner's name or rank. The most likely candidate would be the American ambassador to the then Soviet Union, because he would drive a big American car, but something that was probably not a Packard. I say that because there was a distinct resemblence between our Packards and your prestige make, the ZIL. It would be in poor taste to have a car resembling that of your host government. Obviously, he would have a bombproof shelter for it, as protection from the Facist invasion in 1941. By 1943 thru 1946, the American ambassador was William Averill Harriman, one of President Roosevelt's closest personal friends. The car obviously has a interesting history.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Nitro]

Hello Dave. Each automobile should have history. Especially at such beautiful. I hope, that we can find something about this car.

Dave, you could not show us page from manual of the car where all buttons and levers are drawn. To us value of some things is not absolutely clear.

[Nitro]

Dave, we were interested with the introduction in Buick Club of America. Tell more in detail, we can receive what help? Whether it is enough given the technical information?

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

In response to your question about the Buick Club of America, there are several advantages for you. First, members are allowed to place a free 30 word advertisement each month, and your name and address is free in addition. For you, this would mean about 10,000 members will see what you are looking for in the way of repair parts and literature to restore the car. Second, you would be able to see what other people advertise as available for sale, so you can say to yourself "Oh, I need that item." Third, you will learn some of the ways of doing some of the restoration work. Finally, it's always interesting to see other Buicks from different years. You might see one that you think is particularly beautiful that you've never seen before, or a Buick from the year you were born, unless you were born in 1943, 1944, or 1945, when Buick was very busy making things like airplane engines and artillery shells for the USA and it's allies, including your country. In addition to all that, you would become our first member from Russia!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Centurion]

Dave and Nitro, the '39 Roadmasters are beautiful cars, and I was most interested in reading this topic.

Dave, I'd like to throw out a possibility regarding the history of this car. It is my understanding that General Motors actually assembled some vehicles, including Buicks, at a facility in Antwerp. Although I have no documentation to substantiate this, my impression is that a small number of Flint-built Buicks were shipped to Antwerp as knocked-down kits for assembly there. These cars were obviously intended for sale in Europe. This practice continued after the war, and, in fact, I met a family from The Netherlands at the Buick Centennial in 2003 who had shipped over (for the meet) their Antwerp-assembled 1958 Century 66R.

Can others substantiate that Nitro's Roadmaster may have been assembled in Antwerp?

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

In regard to your question about the various controls on the 1939 Roadmaster, let me start on the left side of the instrument panel as you are seated in the driver's seat. At the far left is the headlight control switch, which works well but is somewhat complicated, as it has a push-in position that turns on the little supplemental lights in the main headlights. Starting from there there are 3 pullout positions. the first is low beams only, the second works thru the floor switch for high beam-low beam, and the third is high only. Second from left is a throttle which pulls out to make the engine run faster for warmup or steady highway driving. At this same place, but underneath the dashboard, is a small metal knob that sets the trip mileage recorder back to zero, so you know how far you've driven. Also under the dash is a small electrical switch which slides from side to side and controls the lights in the instrument panel. On the main shift handle, there is a small switch that controls the rear-of-the-car only directional blinkers. To the right of the steering column, down by the dashboard is a combination of a mechanical lock with a key to unlock it and a up-down electrical switch that is the main switch to turn the car "On". However, if the switch is "on" (and the car hasn't been rewired and altered from the factory), the electricity is "on" and you start the car by stepping on the accelerator pedal. (There's a little position sensing switch on the side of the carburetor that senses "Accelerator pedal is depressed" and that circuit starts the car.) Next is a cigarette lighter. (There is also a cigarette lighter in the rear passenger right side armrest. The left rear passenger armrest has a small slot, about 1 cm front to back and about 5 cm wide, which holds a ladies small mirror and notepad assembly.) In the center of the dashboard is the radio, which has "on-off", tuning, and volume controls. Underneath the radio is a big lever which puts up the cowl vent plate and lets cool air in on your feet. Above the radio in the exact center of the dashboard is a small knob that can be rotated, not pulled in and out. This knob controls the windshield wipers. Finally, at the far right, in front of the passenger's front seat, is the small glove box, which has the clock mounted in it.

On the center door pillar, behind the driver's left ear, is a small vertical switch that controls the light in the center of the top. In English, this light is called the "Dome Light". On the steering wheel is the ring about 12 inches in diameter which controls the factory horns.

I think I've covered all the regular factory switches and levers. However, many of these cars had added lights or special items added by the owners. Such items might include a siren or added horns. These you will have to figure out yourself, as I don't have any way of knowing what they are or were.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Brian:

If you look at Alexander's first post to start this thread, he gives the frame number. That number starts with 1 which is only given to Flint built cars, so assembly beyond remounting the tires and wheels (which lower the car down about 9 inches and decrease the box volume and thus the shipping costs) wasn't required.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

I was thinking some more about your car's history. If it was built early in December of 1938, it probably arrived in Antwerp sometime in February or March of 1939. From there, it traveled, either by being chauffer driven by an American diplomatic courier or on a rail car, from Belgium thru Germany thru Poland thru the Ukraine to Moscow. Considering that we now know what happened within a very few months on Sept. 1, 1939, should give us all something to think about. In short, it's been an eyewitness to some real history!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Nitro]

Thanks for very detailed answer. Now we know about the automobile more.

Tell, in the Internet you could recommend what else sites to us?

As soon as we shall find out with system of payment, we shall be ready to enter club.

There can be we can become official representatives of your club in Russia?

We know about two machines in Russia. Probably their owners will want to join.

[Nitro]

For more exact information and specification of the data I shall make new photos.

Within the next few days I can make good photos of plates. I shall try to make their clean and big.

Except for these plates where numbers of the automobile can be located?

Can be there there will be that that another. Russia is full of surprises.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

Be very careful when you clean the data plates. The metal is very soft and can easily be ruined. Don't use anything stronger than very mild chemical stuff. Acetone and a old toothbrush are good items.

There are two Buick data plates on the car. One is the plate with all the numbers on it on the firewall, which you have previously sent pictures. The other one is a small plate on the top of the frame just behind the battery. It's about 5cm long and 2cm and is also quite easily damaged. Other plates may have been added by GM of Europe, the United States if it was the ambassador's car, and possibly a import permit tag by the Soviet Union. I will be very interested in the information on any other tags, as they might give us insight into the car's history. Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

After some searching, I came up with a possible name in connection with the car. The name was Loy Wesley Henderson, who came to your country in 1934 as the Second Secretary of the American Embassy. He became acting ambassador in 1937 and continued until 1942, when he became the US minister to Iraq. He had a long and distinguished career with our State Department (He became the assistant Secretary for Eastern Europe) and died in 1986 at the age of 93. While in Moscow, he was distrustful of the Soviet expansion plans and possibilities. However, he correctly predicted in 1938 that Nazi Germany would attack the Soviet Union. He was the most active American diplomat in our diplomatic service in promoting shipments of war materials to the Soviet Union after the Facist attack in 1941. I thought you might find this interesting. It would also explain why the car wasn't a Cadillac or a Packard, as these would only be for a full ambassador rank person. The "acting" ambassador would only get a "little" Buick Roadmaster!!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Nitro]

Dave, it is very interesting. But how to find to this documentary confirmations?

How you consider, whether it is possible to write to representation Buick in Europe?

Can be there it is possible will to find out color and characteristics of the automobile? Unfortunately I do not know the address. Whether you can prompt me?

[Nitro]

Dave, I have found the plate on a frame. The size approximately 1.5 centimeters on 10 centimeters.

On it number 13461921 is largly written. I continue clearing of a dirty of other plates.

Probably I shall find still something interesting.

[Nitro]

Dave, I have added new photos in a picture album. Roadmaster

After cleaning we have found the plate on the right side of a frame and have found number on the left side of a frame.

We had problem. Number of the engine does not coincide with number on the plate. New number 3178994.

Engine number

What can you tell about this engine?

Still we had question. We saw many Roadmaster in the Internet. But they have difference from ours. At our car of the case of headlights are completely covered lame.

Headlights chrome

On one of tablets figure 3 is sideways written, what it means?

3 on plate

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

Wow, those pictures are really great!!! Let me comment on many of them as follows:

P1030163 shows a factory correct hood ornament.

P1030167 shows a factory correct radiator.

P1030159 shows a factory front emblem CORRECTLY installed. The other picture shows it on upside down!

P1030162 shows a factory correct word "EIGHT" correctly installed.

P1030161 shows a factory correct word "BUICK" correctly installed.

P1030135 shows a factory correct "frame number" plate. This is usually one of the main numbers to identify the car.

P1030125 is a plate put on by GM of Europe and is peculiar to cars exported to Europe.

P1030127 is a factory correct standard body plate. The 3 stamped into it indicates that there is something special about the car that affects the body. It tells Fisher body something, and right now I'm not sure what that is.

I don't understand what photos P1030118 and P1030123 are. Could you describe them to me? How big is this opening and where is it on the car?

P1030150 shows the top of the headlight pod, but the chrome strip about 2cm wide and 40cm long is missing.

P1030148 shows a front parking light that appears to be definitely for this car, but it's a European style that I have never seen. Here in the USA the light that goes there is more rounded and "bullet shaped" and the glass in the light itself is white. I note that this one is red, has ridges in the glass that look very much like the glass in the rear tail lights and has the metal section across the top which has three small ribs in it. If you look the car over carefully, you will find this styling theme of "3 small ribs" in about 70 different places!

Now, I want to call your attention to P1030125. This shows the factory engine number as "3627744" which was the engine number installed at the factory. The number shown in P1030131 of "3178994" is from a Buick built in about October 1936 for an early 1937 car. It's obviously been changed. However, the changes in the big 320 (5.2 liters) engines across these 2 years are so small that I'm not sure I could tell them apart if I was judging.

Now, P1030166 is the most interesting photo of the whole series!! It shows what is obviously the frame number stamped in an unusual place in the frame. It was US government practice to do this to a car in government service here in the USA. It's called the government property number. Now this may also be a requirement in some parts of Europe, but it increases the probability that the car was once US government property to over 90% in my estimation.

One of your questions was about documentation at GM of Europe. I don't think anything would exist that would help. 67 years is a long time and the Facist invaders of Belgium would have done the rest when they took over in 1939. However, all may not be lost. If I was going to start looking for pictures, I would go to (You're going to think this idea is crazy.) the Soviet Foreign Ministry archives. Another source is a possible picture in Pravda or a similiar newspaper, probably in the February to April 1939 time frame.

I hope I've covered all your questions. I have a request for you. Could you post a picture taken from about 3 meters from the front center of the car and about 50cm above the ground, so I could clearly see the front bumper and the bumper guards? Also, a photo taken the same way of the rear bumper with the trunk lid down so I could see what might be missing back there? Small close-up photos of these parts would be helpful also.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest imported_Thriller]

This is a very interesting thread. Alexander - congratulations on your find. Aside from seeming to be a car with some historical significance, it is simply a beautiful style. I look forward to being able to follow your progress with the car.

[Nitro]

Hello Dave. I shall tell all in details. Photos P1030118, P1030119, P1030123 it is photos of the fenders changed by the previous owner. On photo P1030158 the wheel was well visible that there.

On photo P1030150 the case of a headlight is seen.We have chrome strip for it. A question that the case is covered chrome entirely. In photos of automobiles in the Internet we did not see it.

Very much it would be desirable to find out the data of the automobile. Unless photo P1030126 cannot help?

Dave, I shall make a photo about which you ask as soon as possible. Can be more convenient number in a picture album of them in another way? Or to name?

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

The easy answer first: The headlight pods mounted on top of the front fenders were painted the same color as the body. They are not chrome plated. Only the little top trim piece, which is actually made of stainless steel, is shiny, as are the rings around the headlights themselves.

I still don't quite understand what the opening in the picture shows. Is the opening small in size, 10cm by 10cm, and in the left rear fender? That would be the fuel filler door. If it's quite a bit larger, like 20cm wide and 50cm long, and in the top of both front fenders, it's for a side mounted spare tire.

Would you be so kind as to clarify this so I understand?

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Nitro]

Dave, the previous owner has closed sheets of metal of an aperture in FRONT fenders. Has put there covers and has made boxes for the tool. In this photo the installation site of new metal is well visible.

Fender

The edge of a cover and seam from welding is seen.The right FRONT and left FRONT fenders are identical.

Dave, our headlight pods is really full chrome plated. It very much has interested us. In fact anywhere we did not see such.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

OK, I understand now where on the car those unusual doors are. This is an installation that I have never seen before. You say "the previous owner" put them in. In English, that would be the person that you bought the car from, but I think you might mean "a previous owner" which could be anyone who has owned the car since 1939. Can you estimate how many years ago these small doors were put on the car from the way the doors are made or how they fit to the car? It is even possible that they were done by Buick or by GM of Europe. Do you see any very old paint on them? I remember in one picture seeing a latch on one of them that was metal, so they appear to be well made. Also, where is the spare tire for the car? Is it stored in the trunk? Is there anything in the trunk such as a shelf that the spare tire slides underneath? Also, did you get with the car the metal covers that cover the spare tires while they are in the fenders? There would be a total of about 8 or 10 pieces if you have all the tire cover parts that would be required.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Nitro]

Dave, places on wings have rough welded seams. On seams a thick layer of a paint. It is made not at a factory.

Locks of such type were applied in aircraft of the USSR. Many fine details in the machine have marks of military manufacturers.

We are sure, that the machine when that was in hands of the military person. Covers from spare wheels it was not kept. We very much want to restore the machine in an original kind. The spare wheel was stored in trunk. Within the next few days I shall try to survey the machine in details. I want to find original color of a paint.

You have have found out nothing about figure 3 on the plate?

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

So far I haven't found out what that "3" is, but I'm still working on it. The sidemount covers that you need for the tires will be tough but not impossible to find. Remember also that you need 2 spare tires and rims also. I think from your description you only have 1 spare tire. Is that correct? The best tire supplier in the world that I know of is a man named Wallace Wade. His business is about 70 KM from my house and I know him personally. He ships tires all over the world.

The sidemount covers are the kind of part that you advertise for in the Buick Club magazine. Sombody's got them!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest sixpack2639]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, places on wings have rough welded seams. On seams a thick layer of a paint. It is made not at a factory.

Locks of such type were applied in aircraft of the USSR. Many fine details in the machine have marks of military manufacturers.

We are sure, that the machine when that was in hands of the military person. Covers from spare wheels it was not kept. We very much want to restore the machine in an original kind. The spare wheel was stored in trunk. Within the next few days I shall try to survey the machine in details. <span style="font-weight: bold">I want to find original color of a paint.</span>

You have have found out nothing about figure 3 on the plate? </div></div>

Hi Nitro, great find! If you look here http://autocolorlibrary.com/cgi-bin/search/searchpic.pl?1938-buick-pg01.jpg you will see that your paint code (513) is actually a 1938 paint code and is Black. This goes to verify Dave's thought that this was a very early 1939 model.

Good luck with restoring her, Carl

[Nitro]

Greetings, I have not so understood. In a picture I have found only a code 515.

But at us by the machine a code 513.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

I just printed out the color sheet from the Ditzler reference for 1938 and you are correct as it shows 515 as the 1938 black paint code. I made a list of numbers starting at 501 and running thru 525. By checking codes off that list, I discovered that codes 510, 511, 512, 513, and 514 are not listed on November 1, 1936 and on November 1, 1938. This means that these 4 paint codes were used after November 1, 1936 and NOT in use at November 1, 1938. This establishes FOR SURE that your car is a very early 1939 model year car, but we still need to establish an exact color. Interestingly enough, the paint charts do NOT show a black color for 1937 and there had to be one.

Just so you understand some of thie dates involved, Buick started making 1939 model year cars in August 1938 and completed the 1939 model year in June of 1939.

I think I'm beginning to understand what your car is now in some detail. I looked at my copies of Buick's internal production records to see what and when body 1230 migh have been built. By the end of September 1938, Buick had built 670 model 81 cars. In October, they recorded the following production of cars:

Model 81 Domestic - 634 Left hand drive, Stand up cars

Model 81 Export - 19 Left hand drive, Stand up cars

Model 81 Export - 12 Right hand drive, Stand up cars

Model 81 Export - 12 Left hand drive, Knocked down

Total 1939 of 1347 thru October 31, 1938

Note that this total would confirm that body 1230 was built in October of 1938 as 1347 is larger than 1230. However, it also confirms that a paint chart dated November 1, 1938 is obsolete in relation to YOUR car, but is valid for cars after yours, which includes my 1939 Roadmaster, which has a color code of 530 and the paint is called "Carlsbad Black". For your understanding of this odd name, you need to know that there is a very famous cave here in the USA which is called Carlsbad Caverns. If you have ever been in a big cave with no lights, you get the idea. I will find out what 513 is, but I've got to keep looking.

There is one more VERY INTERESTING fact in the small chart. If you look back a few days ago, it was suggested that your car might have been assembled in Belgium, but I thought it was a stand up car from Flint. I now think our other friend's suggestion WAS CORRECT and your car was one of those 12 cars that went "knocked down" (what Buick calls a "CKD" car, for the words (in English) Completely Knocked Down.) This accounts for several things that puzzled me. First, all the numbers on your plates are stamped "IN" (the data is stamped AFTER the plate is attached to the front cowl part), where our numbers are stamped "OUT" (the data is stamped on the back of the plate BEFORE it is assembled to the cowl part.) It also accounts for the fact that the engine number wasn't prefixed with an 8, which says it is a Roadmaster or a 9, which would be for a model 90 series Limited. Finally, and very important, it would establish WHY there is no trim code listed, since Buick would not know for any CKD car what the customer wanted. It also accounts for the GM of Europe data plate.

This means that you should take a VERY detailed group of pictures of the inside for reference (maybe as many as 100). When you take off any upholstery, cut small reference squares (5cm in size) of all the materials used. If you can find an area that has always been covered up from sunlight so the cloth isn't faded, use that. We have suppliers here in the USA that can supply us with any cloth seat materials that the car needs. The fact that it is a CKD vehicle would also accout for the different style small parking lights on the front, as these were almost certainly manufactured in Belgium, France, or Germany. Many years ago, I worked at a plant that made heavy trucks for shipment all over the world. Any trucks that went CKD to Belgium were NOT allowed to have any glass in them by Belgian law.

I think you should try to find a very hidden part of the body (up inside the car behind the instrument panel or inside a door) where the original paint would be applied and never removed and take a color reference photo if you can. These interior photos will be all we will ever have for reference as to color or how each seat or panel was upholstered.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Alexander:

After I posted the previous item, I also realized that if your car was a CKD car, Buick would stamp the frame number into the frame itself (like your picture) to be sure that the number was there if the standard little frame number plate got lost or damaged. However, it would still be what our government would use as a "property number".

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest sixpack2639]

Hi Alexander, I stand corrected, that is a 515 code for Black, I thought it was 513. It was slightly blurred on my screen. Cheers, Carl

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Carl:

Yeah, at 67 I had real trouble reading that 515 too. I had to enlarge the color chart above real size, print it out in color and use a magnifying glass on that. Did you see my explanation about making a list and checking off all the paint code numbers from 1937 thru 1940? 513 is obviously something that's pretty obscure, but I won't be too surprised if it just turns out to be black, although it could be a paint code that's "Europe only" as Buick did some really weird things on export cars. Another possibility is that 513 is a code that says "No Paint" or something like "Don't paint the body, but do paint the instrument panel and the window surrounds". Since this is a CKD car, it wouldn't have any paint on it from Flint.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest sixpack2639]

Hiya Dave, I'd have bet money that 5 was a 3 until I enlarged it too and i'm 39. LOL

I did see your reference to making up a chart and checking off the codes but I thought if we were using different reference sources yours may have missed that code. I have found Auto Color Library to be quite complete when looking for codes myself but that's not to say I believe them to be THE end all source.

I don't know much about Buick's export practices, but i'm learning, so, for now, i'll leave that up to you guys who obviously know more about the subject. LOL

Cheers, Carl

[Nitro]

All greetings. Dear sirs, for the decision of my problem are important any councils. Even if they contradict each other.

As I have understood, export automobiles distinguished many details. At me one more question has appeared. On a photo I saw instrument panels trimmed with a tree.

By our machine I have not found a tree. Probably it is destroyed by time. Or it was not from the beginning. I ask, if you have photo of the automobile inside, send them to me on e-mail hidcorp@gmail.com. I possible can see still differences from the American automobiles. Rainy weather prevents to study the machine in details, within the next few days I shall engage in studying of various differences.