WCFB Question - Need an answer ASAP - Bench Rebuilding

[Rattpac]

Diassembled the carb the other day (1953 WCFB # 985) and during reassembly notice the "Jets" are different sizes from front to rear. During disassembly I did try to read them and I thought they all read the same looks like 120 on top and 165 on bottom of jet however there is a noticible difference in jet size. I am assuming that like other carb the larger pair of jets would be for the secondaries????

Found the magnifing glass! jets are 165 and 125, belive the 125 belongs to the primary side?

[Rattpac]

Thanks Brian for the info. I am going to pull the jets again and take a closer look, mmmm larger primary?

[Rattpac]

Pulled them and changed them around, was a little hard to see the numbers, but it appears that the number(s) being larger did not me that followed suit. The 165 were larger than the 185 so I'm thinking that they are just Carter part numbers. I did check them with my stepped drill set and they did measure out to be correct and yes the larger one is for the primary. This is the first WCFB (White Cast Four Barrel) that I have rebuilt so I was not thinking about the metering rods. Thanks again for the help! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Dr Morbius]

I thought WCFB stood for William Carter Four Barrel.....anybody? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

...................Steve

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I have a Carter catalog that says it's 'White Cast'.

Which must be a reference to the type of Metal used to make it (pot metal),

and the A in AFB is for Aluminum.

[carbking]

According to everyone I ever spoke with at Carter (after I asked), WCFB stood for "Will Carter Four Barrel". One of my friends from Carter "gently" corrected me before I asked (no, he didn't use a ball bat <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) for parrotting "wrought cast four barrel" which I had incorrectly read in aftermarket literature. AFB does stand for Aluminum Four Barrel.

As to the jets: Carter used a 120 prefix to mean main metering jet. The following number prior to about 1968 or so was simply the next sequential number and had no meaning as to size. Beginning about 1968, Carter coded most of the jets to correspond to orifice size. These start with 120-350.

For AFB, YF, and AVS secondary jets the code would be:

120-3nn - jet let than 0.100 where nn is the size in thousanths eg 120-350 is 0.050

120-4nn - jet great than 0.100 (up to about 0.119 eg 120-419 is 0.119

For AVS primary (high step) jets:

120-4nn - jet less than 0.100 beginning with 0.089 eg 120-489 is 0.089

120-5nn - jet greater than 0.100 up to I think 0.104 eg 120-501 is 0.101

Thermoquad jets received a different numbering system.

The newer AFB jets may be used in WCFB carbs.

While I would dislike using the word always, virtually all WCFB and AFB carburetors will have larger primary jets than secondary jets. As previously mentioned, the primary jet has a metering rod (except in a few marine AFB's), so the primary jet must be larger.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Never attempt to interchange the "high step" AVS primary jets with other jets. </span>

Jon.

[Rattpac]

Appreciate the input, Finished the carb rebuild this morning with no additional parts for once. Engine ran much nicer and allowed me to locate the other two problems with roughness, loose points wire making intermetent problems and my #1 cylinder wasn't working with the other 7, good compression, dist is now fine, wires are solid core and I had just checked the plugs and regapped them. Pulled No1 and to my amazement the electrode was touching the grounding pin, I had just gapped the plugs a couple days ago. Looked down in the hole and sure enough there was a small indication that the valve was meeting with the sparkplug. The plugs (pretty new) were installed when I bought the donor car, compared these plugs (Champion H10c) with an old set and yep they were longer. Someone sold the old owner the wrong plugs. Anyway all tuned up and running nice!

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to everyone I ever spoke with at Carter (after I asked), WCFB stood for "Will Carter Four Barrel". One of my friends from Carter "gently" corrected me before I asked (no, he didn't use a ball bat <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) for parrotting "wrought cast four barrel" which I had incorrectly read in aftermarket literature. </div></div>

So, If I understand correctly, Since Everyone at Carter, their literature and their printed catalog that I have, All have different opinions as to what it means, We still don't Know, for Sure, what it originally meant, Correct?

This is a very old catalog, could they have officially changed what it meant at some time?

I've only seen 'Wrought' used when discribing hammer-formed Iron and I think the metal alloy used in the carbs was called 'White' metal, so I tend to think the 'White Cast' is more accurate. At least It used to be long time ago. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Rattpac]

I need to side with Speedster, I believe I also came across the term White Cast 4-bbl in some old either manuals or rebuilding sheets. The housings were definetly a pot metal with the exception of the base being made out of Aluminum, also stands to reason the next generation 4bbls being AFB's. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[carbking]

Well, I give up. Searched the Carter files I have, and found no reference to why WCFB was chosen or what it means in the 1951, 1952 files.

Did find the following which may be of interest to Packard owners:

Mileage and acceleration figures for Packard 300 and 400 with Carter 985s WCFB carburetor, Ultramatic transmission, and 3.54 axle ratio:

Mileage at constant speed of:

20 MPH - 24.0 MPG

30 MPH - 22.6 MPG

40 MPH - 19.6 MPG

50 MPH - 17.3 MPG

60 MPH - 15.75 MPG

70 MPH - 13.8 MPG

Top speed 102 MPH

Acceleration:

0/10 - 2.1 seconds

0/20 - 4.25 seconds

0/30 - 6.75 seconds

0/40 - 10.0 seconds

0/50 - 14.2 seconds

0/60 - 18.98 seconds

0/70 - 24.98 seconds

0/80 - 31.93 seconds

Test 7/19/1952 released for publication 11/17/1952

Jon.

[carbking]

My guess would be that the person or persons responsible for naming the WCFB are no longer with us; so would agree we will probably never know for sure. A couple of the gentlemen that told me Will Carter Four Barrel were with Carter in the 1950's, so I give credence to their comments.

As to "wrought cast" versus "white cast", I won't try to argue the semantics of this because I flat don't know. However consider that in the 1920's and 1930's Carter was calling their iron bodies "wrought".

Most Carter Carburetors beginning in 1932 had a type designation beginning with a "W" and had iron bases. These include the W-1, W-2, and WA-1 single barrel; and the WD-0 (zero, not "ohh"), WCD, and WGD two barrel.

The WCFB's had aluminum airhorns; either iron or aluminum throttle bodies; and only the bowl, choke housings, and pump housing were contructed from "zinc alloy" or "white metal" or "pot metal".

Is is possible that the official designation changed? Of course it is. The offical company line in the 1970's and 1980's (before Federal Mogul) was Will Carter Four Barrel (see the Dave Emanual book "Carter Carburetors"). Fortunately, we do not have to know why the type designation was picked.

The important issue is that the WCFB was, and remains, a pretty good carburetor.

Jon.

[Rattpac]

Carbking, thanks for the posting. Great information on the 0-speed times, now I don't feel so bad, I went 0-60 in about the same as your posting, I just need to learn how to drive at 25mph.... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

Quick question while your still reading this. I thought I would have ported vacuum for my dist advance, it appears to be constant. Would you know if thats correct? and then the next question would be timing of the engine with or without the vacuum hooked up at 500 rpm.

[carbking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carbking, thanks for the posting. Great information on the 0-speed times, now I don't feel so bad, I went 0-60 in about the same as your posting, I just need to learn how to drive at 25mph.... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

Quick question while your still reading this. I thought I would have ported vacuum for my dist advance, it appears to be constant. Would you know if thats correct? and then the next question would be timing of the engine with or without the vacuum hooked up at 500 rpm. </div></div>

Will have to defer these questions to someone else, as I do not know. My expertise is in the carburetors themselves, and in Pontiacs. Glad you liked the post on the road test.

Jon.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, Thanks for the mileage and acceleration data, very interesting.