Stromberg OE-1 Carburetor Problem

[Guest etolen]

I believe the carburetor for my 1925 Oakland 6-54B is a model OE-1, although I can't find anything in my Dyke's manual that refers to a model OE-1. It looks very similar to a model M. Anyway, the float needle valve on my carburetor does not seem to seal properly. The gasoline drips out of the main air intake. The float needle valve has been screwed down almost as far as it will go, by someone else, and I can't get it to budge. Does anyone know if there is a rebuild kit available for this model carburetor?

Thanks for any help.

Ed

[Guest Ken G]

Ed,

Try http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/PkitNO.htm#POAKLAND. I found these people responsive and helpful.

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

[Guest etolen]

Ken,

Thanks for the info. I will try and contact them tomorrow.

Ed

[Jay Wolf]

In my Dykes Carburetor supplement (1928)

It has full information on the Type "O"

and states at the end of that section

"The OE is the same as the Model "O" with the auxiliary gasoline control left off and is made in 1" 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" sizes.

So if you have information on the type "O" that should work.

[Guest Ken G]

It has just occurred to me that etolen's problem may be inherent. On my Rover, there is a vacuum-operated fuel pump that provides a reservoir of a pint or two of fuel perhaps 18 inches above the level of the carburetor. There is a faucet in the pipe between the pump and the carburetor (original, not added). I understand that from new, it was always necessary to turn off that faucet whenever the car was left standing for more than a few minutes, because otherwise the needle valve leaked slightly under the pressure of this height of fuel, and after a while the float chamber overflowed or at the least the level rose sufficiently that fuel leaked somewhere or other. It's not a problem when the engine is running because it consumes fuel faster than the leakage. My car lives in my basement garage, and on two occasions I have woken in the night to a strong smell of gasoline, and had to go down to the garage to turn off the faucet. This is very dangerous because there are two gas pilot lights within a few feet!

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

[Guest etolen]

Jay,

Thanks for the info on the Model "O", I will check it out.

Ken,

That is exactly the problem that I am having. My main concern is that if the car is just idling I only need to open the valve on the vacuum tank about 1/2 to 3/4 turns to keep the car running. If I start driving and the engine begins to rev it starves for gasoline. If I open the valve 1-1/2 to 2 turns it keeps the engine from starving at higher rpm, but if I slow down and idle for a few minutes it gets to much gas to the carburetor and begins to flood. There doesn't seem to be a happy medium. Now I'm not sure if there really is a problem with the carburetor or not.

Thanks,

Ed

[Guest Ken G]

Ed,

A silly question perhaps, but is the vacuum tank mounted where it was intended or has it been raised? If the height of the column of fuel was greater than intended, then clearly the pressure would be higher and any leakage via the needle valve would be greater.

Having said that, I really think it has to be that the needle valve is leaking a lot more than it ought. I would expect all Stromberg carburetors of the period to be very similar in their float chambers (perhaps in fact identical). My car has a Stromberg OS-2. The mechanism is really very simple, and if the float doesn't have a hole in it, the levers are free, the needle is not worn or bent, and its seating is not worn or damaged, I don't see how it can fail. Thus if you have a serious leak, one or more of these conditions is not satisfied, but it ought not to be difficult to dismantle it and put it right. I completely dismantled this part of my spare carburetor, and there doesn't seem to be any mystery (apart from the strange flat washer where the fuel line enters, whose purpose escapes me, although omitting it would apparently do no harm).

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

[Guest etolen]

Ken,

Thanks for your continued responses. The vacuum tank appears to be in its original position, so I don't think that is the problem. I took the bowl apart and the float doesn't have a hole, the levers are free and the needle does not appear to be worn. The needle has been screwed down about as far as it can go by either the previous owner or a mechanic, probably trying to get it to stop leaking by. I have not taken the seat out to see if there is something wrong with it, but I may do that this weekend, time permitting.

Thanks again,

Ed

[carbking]

While not a desirable situation, it is not uncommon for ANY updraft carburetor with a gravity feed fuel system to leak fuel when the engine is not running. It should NOT leak while the engine is running; and the fuel shut-off valve should be fully open when the engine is running.

If the carburetor leaks while running:

(A) check the fuel delivery system. If an electric pump is used <span style="font-weight: bold">THE PUMP MUST BE A SELF-REGULATED LOW PRESSURE PUMP!</span> The dial type regulators which we have tested are quite useful if one has a strong arm and a rabbit problem in the garden! If a vacuum tank is used, make sure that the vacuum tank is not being pressurized, delivering too much fuel to the carburetor.

( check the carburetor float. Brass floats may be tested by submersion in hot water. If there are leaks, there will be bubbles.

© check the float adjustment

(D) check the carburetor casting for cracks. A cracked brass carburetor is rare, but it does happen. More common with the late '20's zinc alloy carburetors.

(E) If, and only if, all of the above is normal, put a kit including a new fuel valve in the carburetor.

Jon.

[D Binger]

Carbking,

Can you answer a question for me? I have had several old mechanics tell me that I should use a "Master Float Valve" on my carb on my 50 Chevy. Is there any advantqge to using one or not. The one mechanic even gave me a NOS one. I have not instaled it yet.

Dan

[carbking]

The "Master Float Valve" was produced by a company in Oklahoma called Parker Brothers. It consists of a brass seat with an inverted flare around the orifice, and an aluminum plunger with a flat neopreme washer inserted into a concave aperature in the end of the plunger.

The valve has the following advantances:

(A) the flat washer cannot stick in the orifice

( since there is no part of the plunger inserted in the orifice, full fuel flow commences immediately when the plunger is off the seat, maintaining a more uniform bowl fuel level

© the aluminum plunger does not "magnetize", thus attracting foreign particles

We used thousands of the valves over the years. Unfortunately, the company making the valve is no longer in business. The conventional "needle and seat" fuel valve is what we use today.

Jon.

[D Binger]

Thanks Jon.

Would you say that the fule ecomony and preformance is better with one being used. Also what is your thought on the Stromberg aftermarket carb for the GM six cylinders of the early 50's?

Dan

[carbking]

We used the "Master" (we referred to them as "Parker Bros") valves for reliability. Since the Parker Bros valve will maintain a more constant fuel level, fuel economy and performance will be improved, but except in extreme useage, is probably only measurable via instrumentation, not by "seat of the pants".

As to using Stromberg on 1950's GM 6 cylinders:

It is my opinion that Stromberg (the USA company) ALWAYS was in the top 2 or 3 brands of carburetor (these brands would normally change over the years). It would depend on WHICH GM 6 cylinder to which you refer. GM trucks used Zenith carbs (another brand in the top 3 in the 1950's). Pontiac (for the most part) used Carter (the other of the top 3). I would see little benefit in replacing either the Zenith or the Carter (although the more wide-spread use of *&^%$# ethanol is making me have second thoughts about the Carter YF because of the diaphragm accelerator pump!).

However, when replacing ANY original equipment carburetor (by definition, engineering and recommended by the original manufacturer); one must do one's homework in selecting a different carburetor that has the proper airflow and proper fuel curve for the application.

One other thing to consider: the word "best" will have different meanings to different people. My criteria for "street" carburetors, in order, are reliability, performance, and initial cost. For race applications the performance/reliability factors flip-flop. Initial costs (these normally do NOT translate to overall costs) are generally low on my list of considerations. Others may disagree.

But, to maybe answer your question, if I had a 1950's Chevrolet 6 cylinder with a Rochester B, 3 nanoseconds after acquisition of the vehicle, the B would be replaced.

Jon.

[D Binger]

Jon,

Thank you again.

Dan

[Guest etolen]

Jon,

In answer to your questions:

A) There is no fuel pump and the vacuum tank is not pressuring up.

I took the float out and checked it out. No leaks.

C) The needle valve was adjusted as far down as it could go by previous owner, probably trying to get it to stop leaking. The needle does seem to be worn, what I would call an inverted ridge I assume where it seats. I think this could be the problem. Are there new needles available with rebuild kits.

D) No cracks that I could detect.

E) I'll check into a rebuild kit.

Thanks for the help.

Ed

[Guest stude8]

I had success stopping this condition in a 1920 Mercer carb by remaking a new "Seat" for the carb float needle. If you get a Bronze or Brass hex head machine bolt (I used 3/8-24 NF) it can be machined in a lathe to add a round passage hole and shortened to fit in the carb bowl to replace the old seat. The Mercer problem was the old seat had worn in an elipitical shape so the round needle shaft (In an oval hole) could never stop the passage of fuel around the needle. It has worked fine for about 8 years now. Stude8

[Guest De Soto Frank]

I'm curious now; what asects of the Rochester B make it so undesireable?

( Just from a layman's point of view, I always seemed to have more grief from the YF than I did from the Rochester...I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm truly curious...)

[Guest Ken G]

Ed,

I realize I didn't react to something you said more than once. "The needle valve was adjusted as far down as it could go by previous owner, probably trying to get it to stop leaking." The adjustment at the top of the needle valve doesn't affect the way the point of the needle fits into the seating. It adjusts how high the float needs to be before the needle comes into contact with the seating and shuts off the fuel. If it is set too far in one direction (up and down are ambiguous here), the chamber might fill and the float rise as high as it could go and yet the needle might still not have reached its seating, so fuel will continue to flow and overflow. Hence you might try adjusting it a long way in the other direction and see what happens.

I still would suspect the needle, or more probably, its seating. If you take off the top of the float chamber, empty it, and then by hand simply hold the needle valve on to its seating while turning on the fuel at the vacuum tank, does fuel leak in around the needle? If so, there is your problem.

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

[carbking]

DeSoto Frank - Carter made hundreds of different YF carbs. I posted a listing of those used as replacement for Chevrolet on the Stovebolt forum, if you wish to obtain a listing.

Using a YF for a different application than original could create problems, as the YF was used on engines from the 134 Willys to the 300 Ford. Externally very similiar, internally VERY different. The *&^%$ ethanol IS creating problems for diaphragm type accelerator pumps (as used by the YF) for the owner who only occasionally starts the vehicle. Far fewer problems are reported by those who drive the vehicle daily.

The Rochester B has only 4 screws holding the airhorn onto the bowl (8 would probably have been a good number for the area involved). Warpage of both castings occurs, permitting an internal vacuum leak to the vacuum passage controling the power valve (or economiser valve, depending on ones own scheme of nomenclature) thus allowing this valve to provide fuel enrichment at all times, not just under low vacuum conditions (WOT). In other words, the unit normally runs very rich. For best results, the casting cannot be machined (machining removes the gasket sealing "ridge" and also weakens the casting thus permitting accelerated warpage). To properly rebuild one of these carbs, a special form can be made which will allow pressure to be applied at the warped areas, and the unit then heated in a oven to reverse the warpage (at least for a few years).

The 2 and 4 barrel Rochesters (2G and 4G series) used sufficient screws, and are virtually "bulletproof", VERY reliable carburetors.

And it takes two to argue; since I won't, no fight will be started

Jon.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Jon,

Thank you for taking the time to explain then shortcomings of the Rochester "B".

I was not looking for a fight ; and I have noticed the tendency of the bowl covers to warp, but thought it was mostly a fuel leakage issue; didn't ever consider that it would wreck the efficiency of the economizer !

Also went through the warpage issue with the Holley 1 bbl on my '64 Valiant...the little pump cover inside the bowl was very warped.

I guess our arch-enemy, "Pot-Metal," does not restrict his evil to pitted trim !

I will try to think better of the YF, next time I have a car that uses one!

All the best,

De Soto Frank