SETTING STUART BLOND STRAIGHT

[Guest]

JT: Let me asure you that you and hundreds of others wrote letters to TPC about the 65V12 story. However your letter and hundreds of other never where published and ended up in a filing cabinet to be ignored. My keeping this matter before people for two years had more impact of bringing a pull of support for the story than you will ever know. There was a great deal of preasure put on me behind the scenes to drop the matter, those people shall remain unnamed by me.

I have for the most part remained very silent on this matter since support of the story was pulled by TPC and I will make no further comments on the 65V12 story.

[Guest Randy Berger]

I am going to post an email I received from a fellow Packard collector.

I don't have permission to publish his name so I won't, but I just wonder how many other Packard people we have lost because of this thread.

<span style="font-style: italic">Made a rare visit to the AACA forum today, and see you are a regular contributor to the Packard section. There is some good interchange info there, but I couldn't take all the Stuart Blond bashing. A guy puts in nearly 30 years of working his ass off for the club, and puts out 12 copies of the CNB a year for 20 years, fighting to find content without much help, and he gets bashed! If the basher is all that knowledgeable, he should have committed his recollections to paper and submitted it for publication so we could all have the benefit.</span>

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Speedster]

What seems strange to me is the number Views of this Thread.(now at 1473)

That may be some kind of Record for the short time it's been up? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[WCraigH]

I have not yet posted to this thread, but I will now because I totally agree with your annonymous emailer. Personally, I'd like to see this thread CLOSED, but *we* don't have a moderator to do so. Maybe we can all do it voluntarily.

[Guest]

I agree. I think this topic has been beaten to death and it's time for closure.

I am amazed that the good folks who edit the CNM and TPC are able to consistently find new material to publish year after year and we members of PAC owe a great deal of gratitude to people like Stuart who have taken on such an onerous task.

[Guest]

TO ALL:

It seems to me that Stuart can publish a story that is non factual in many areas and received all kinds of praise for doing so and not give the people credit who made it easy for him to obbtain the story, and use the story for a billboard for his present employer. No one raises any cries of outrage about that.

When a person like myself comes along and presents the truth and a factual account and can back up what he says with proof if it is demanded, Stuart can't do this. I am branded as a basher and a trouble maker and a flamer. It appears that not may aren't interested in hearing the real true story. It appears that my standards are a little high than some.

I had taken under serious consideration what Clipper 47 had said a while back and was going to start telling and sharing with you people in here my times with Brad. I figured that it was time to change the direction of this thread, but it appears to me if I did this and they conflicted with what Stuart has already printed that I would still be considered a basher. It seems to me that if you aren't interested in hearing the true story of a Packard person, then you sure as heck are interested in anything else I have to say. No sweet off of my butt if I never get the rest of my story about Mr. Berry.

I came in full well knowing that when I started posting the true story about Mr. Berry that I sure as heck wouldn't be gaining many freinds in the Packard comunity. No matter what any of you think I stood up and fought for what I thought was the correct thing to do. It must be that my standards are a little different that some other people in here.

To Craig and a few others you can do with the thread as you wish I really don't care.

[Custom8coupe]

Which means, I hope, that you, Packard 53, will, at long (and I do mean LONG)last,stop torturing the readers of this site with your whining, juvenile and fantastically self-centered illiteracies.

Stuart Blond is a straight shooter, as all who know him are very well aware. You need to recognize that your envy of a talented writer and accurate reporter is unappreciated by the VAST majority of the users of this board. So, relax pal, we get that you dislike Stuart, but the reasons for your dislike are painfully obvious and embarassing.

[Guest]

Packard53, I would be delighted to learn more about Mr. Berry. Please do so but why not start a new thread. Please also consider contributing an article to the TPC magazine. You are a talented writer believe me! Too much is lost to history when good people like you who have such great experiences fail to put them into print. Sincerely.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Rick L wrote:

"What seems strange to me is the number Views of this Thread.(now at 1473)

That may be some kind of Record for the short time it's been up? "

YES. AN IMPORTANT POINT!!!! That should tell many recent newcommers to this forum a little about what is going on here. Over the last 7 or 8 years spanning 3 or more DIFFERENT forum sponsors there has been incidents where certain individuals have tried to shut us down because of various topics many of which were much more benign than this one. there was one incident about 6 years ago at Classiccar.com where "someone" from "somewhere" posed as owning the site and threatened to shut down the Packard forum because they did not like the line of discussion about oil pumps and other objective listings. The REAL OWNER of the site had to come into the forum for the first time and refute that posters claim.

NOW LOOK!!!! If i have to i can probably resurrect a post or two where one of the clubies was DEMANDING poster identification WHILE HE was posting annonomously himself.

There are DEFINATLY those that would like to shut down this independent Packard forum because (apparently???) we are interfering with their agenda or something.

GET THE PICTURE everyone?????

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Clipper47 wrote:

"Packard53, I would be delighted to learn more about Mr. Berry. "

YES!. My opinion too. However, Packard53 MIGHT consider leaving the authors name removed from his posts and simply refer to it as the Brad Berry article. P53 will make his point withot giving various organizations any ammo or excuse to shut us down.

OR, to put it another way, "just because one is NOT paranoid does NOT mean that the world is NOT out to get them" <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> annonymous.

[Guest Randy Berger]

I had a totally different take on the number of people who have examined this thread. I read a lot of other threads on the AACA forum, but do not post there because I have nothing to contribute. That doesn't mean I am trying to find a way to shut that thread down. It just means that a lot of people read the AACA forum and may read all the threads. Many, like my friend, who may not be back, read these threads and are either inclined to join the discussion or get turned off by the way some things are handled. We are not in someone's garage having a friendly argument - we are in a glass house where any passerby can see what we are doing. That others in the AACA group spend the time to read our posts is commendable and should be applauded. There are many readers who could contribute to our knowledge base and I hope they come back and see that 99% of our posts are devoted to sharing knowledge and aiding the Packard collector.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest 51Patty400]

"There are DEFINATLY those that would like to shut down this independent Packard forum because (apparently???) we are interfering with their agenda or something."

What would be gained by this?

- Mark

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

ask them!.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

What??? do u think BH and i are making this up???

[Guest 51Patty400]

I was just wondering what anyone could gain by shutting this forum down. If it happens, we will all just move to the next one and the next one. Lots of them out there.

It seems like someone would be really wasting their time to pursue this, so they must have something to gain by it. I just cannot figure out what it is.

- Mark

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

I can not make any accusations on intent. All i can guess is that the "55-56 Xref" ONGOING thread as well as other tech information shared here is threatening to certain merchandise/service providers. I mean the 55-56 xref is a very humble and rudimentary parts info source.

Recently some joker showed up in here posting that maybe some of us were related to Gomer Pyle or something because we tried our own custom fabrications or mdifications. The ONLY thing he offered was advice to replace with NOS parts. Parts that in some cases were inferior from the factory to begin with or no longer available OR such parts ever existing denied (while some of us have factory literature indicating otherwise) and THATS WHY we were trying to improve/improvise the parts, and not to keep the NOS vendors in groceries the rest of their life. Haven't heard much from him lately either.

Stay with us for another 1000 posts or two. U'll see.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I think what he is saying, Is that it's all about Money.

Some of those same people are also Vendors and Sellers of High Dollar parts, and don't like us finding and broadcasting other sources with lower prices.

If I got that wrong, someone please let me know?

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Rick, u got that right, sho' got it right.

[Guest Albert]

Rick you hit the nail on the head! Even on E-bay you know the ones out there for the fast dollar. I'am sort of a purest when it comes to the cars, Except when it comes to design defects, if we can make a better part, or work around, thats great. Like the Cord Coffin Nose has a problen with the front u-joint, the Cord people have found a moderen fix that gives them more relable car, and that we can all enjoy these cars longer, and pass the down to someone younger, as one person put it "We do not own these cars, we are only the curator"

[Guest Albert]

Is there a way we can appoint someone to manage this forum, as i have noticed that other forums have the ability to lock some topics to the top of the page, this way we can keep the cross ref at the top of the forum, and be able to delete the post" moved to top" all the time. Even if we all can not up date it, we could post it in a tempory post to have it moved where it belongs later.

[Guest 51Patty400]

I only discovered that Stuart works for Kanter today when I got an email replay from him about a part I was looking for.

Guess I was the only one who didn't know?

- Space

[Guest JT]

Post deleted by JT

[Guest JT]

Post deleted by JT

[Guest Rojo22]

Custom8Coupe, I do not get the personal attack? It is that kind of comment that we do not want to see. Information or Facts about the issue is what we want, not some inflammatory comment about your claims someone is illiterate. I am embarassed to see a comment like that in the forum, and I hope you apologize for becoming personal here on a public forum. YOUR judgement of another persons envy or shortcomings are not constructive and belies another motive.

The VAST majority have read the posts and have made decisions on what was said and how we process the information. We have quietly given respect for the need of someone to express themselves. That respect is given to those individuals on this forum that have given generously of their time to help others get cars working again, whether they are in a club or not.

I am personally sickened by the idea that a group of people are now being called upon to personally check in and support one side or the other. I also think it is morally reprehensible to call into question someones motives when they are defending someone who cannot defend themselves.

I would hope this thread returns to a respectful level. It disgusts me that this has degenerated to personal insults. I am personally ashamed of having to post in this thread, as I wanted to stay out of it, but could not see such blatant disrespect taking place.

[Guest]

Custom8coupe:My name is John Shireman I live in Jersey Shore Penna. and was a personal friend of Mr. Berry for about 6 years. It would be my pleasure to know your name and the place you call your home town.

In your eyes I maybe illerate and a juvenile, that doesn't really bother me. I have been called worse by experts. However Iam willing to bet that I know more about the major people who worked for Packard, and the general history of Packard than you do. I will also say the same for any other major brand of automobile that has been produced around the globe.

I have an idea lets start a new thread in this forum and see who is the best on auto history. An illerate juvenile like myself should be much of a challenge to you. I WILL BE WAITNG FOR AN ANSWER FROM YOU. Now you be sure and have a good day or what left of it.

[Custom8coupe]

Packard 53: If you believe that you can blithely state that what Stuart Blond wrote in his article in the Cormorant was non factual and a self-serving exercise designed to show him, his wife and his employer in favorable light, then you open yourself to critical analysis as well.

I did not say, precisely, that you were either juvenile or illiterate. What I did say, and meant, was that what you wrote was childishly self-centered and poorly presented. You clearly intended to harm Stuart's image and enhance your own. I must say that there seems to be far more emphasis on your contribution to this story (for all I know, correctly so), than memorializing your late friend. Please do not suggest that your comments about Stuart Blond were innocent and intended no harm. The observable reality is quite the contrary.

Stuart has been a dedicated and fair contributor to the Packard periodical experience and a friend of the hobby for years and I do not feel that I can sit idly by while you savage him.

I have no desire to engage in any contest, of any nature with you, as to do so will help this thread to become the "Tar baby" of the Forum. I visit here to share information, not to pick every conceivable nit in the product of another medium.

[Guest Clay2252]

Gentlemen:

I've been reading the thread entries, and it's kinda fun, but gee, we aren't advancing the hobby here, and some of the replies are a bit catty. I don't know Stuart Blond, but he does have a first amendment right to speak, and if one doesn't like it, ignore it. And forget it. This thread is getting out of hand!

An Oregonian currently transplanted to Iraq

[Guest cnbed]

Letters to the editor of "TPC" are always welcome. They are published on a space-available basis, and those that are published may be edited for purposes of clarity, grammar and/or space.

And, don't worry about misspellings -- I use spell-check!

[Guest]

Custom8coupe: I have come forwward and have told you my real name and home town.

WHY HAVE YOU REFUSED TO COME FORWARD AND DO THE SAME

JOHN F. SHIREMAN

JERSEY SHORE, PENNA.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I will be your Second.

Shall it be Swords or Pistols at 10 paces?

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I will be your Second.

Shall it be Swords or Pistols at 10 paces?

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

Might I suggest that in keeping with the Packard spirit that the duel be conducted with spears. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will gladly donate two from the front fenders of my Super Clipper to put an end to this debate!

In the immortal words of that great black American Rodney King (if only that he managed to get his Hyundai Excel to exceed 100mph)"Can't we all just get along?" <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Custom8coupe: I have come forwward and have told you my real name and home town.

WHY HAVE YOU REFUSED TO COME FORWARD AND DO THE SAME

JOHN F. SHIREMAN

JERSEY SHORE, PENNA. </div></div>

OK, OK, take it easy. Step back from the computer, take a deep breath, relax. No need to get into a shouting contest over all this. Why does anyone need to know who you are and where you live--are you inviting him over for a fist fight or something? One's name and location has nothing to do with having a valid opinion, does it? I'm sure you've all seen the picture about arguing on the Internet and being retarded (if not, Google it--it'll make sense then). <span style="font-style: italic">That's where we are now in this discussion. </span>

Seriously, guys, this has been blown <span style="font-style: italic">waaay</span> out of proportion here. I may be an intruder on the Packard board (don't own one, but plan to own a '34 Super 8 in the future), but I've read this thread with great interest and amusement. I even sought out a friend with Packards so I could read the article in question to put this discussion into perspective. I've been inclined to write a response here several times before, but restrained myself because 1) I'm an outsider and 2) I don't know any of the people involved. This is getting out of hand and I thought that perhaps I could lend a different view to hopefully ease tensions a little bit.

So if anyone wants an outsider's perspective, here's mine: Stuart Blond wrote the best article he could with the information he had. No writer sets out to write a deceptive or discriminatory story, and most try to include as many facts as possible. I also think that Stuart's story achieved this.

The flip side, is, of course <span style="font-weight: bold">Packard53</span> and his more intimate knowledge of the subject. Unfortunately, this knowledge, however meaningful to him and potentially to Packard fans, wasn't presented to his satisfaction in the article. So he set out to correct the record. But what he ended up doing, probably not intentionally, was making it seem as though the article didn't pay enough attention to <span style="font-style: italic">him,</span> not Mr. Berry. That really cheapened his comments considerably, and probably set the stage for feelings like those <span style="font-weight: bold">Custom8coupe</span> has expressed. My gut says that this isn't what <span style="font-weight: bold">Packard53</span> wanted, but based on what he's written here, it's about what he deserved. His posts nit-picked irrelevant details and eventually it just sounded like celebrity name-dropping and "Hey! Look at me! I knew him too!" self promotion. Some folks find this distasteful and are more sensitive to it than others, hence the long disagreement.

The bottom line? Mr. Berry was probably a great guy who had a lot of wonderful things to share with the Packard (and auto) enthusiast community. His passing is a shame, but it's good that his legacy has been formally recognized and documented.

Ultimately, <span style="font-weight: bold">Packard53,</span> Mr. Berry is who this is all about. It is not about you, even though you were obviously a close friend. You can probably add some additional texture to this story, which apparently hit all the high notes as it stands, but it seems that the only sins committed were sins of omission.

Just some thoughts from a (relative) outsider to all this.

PS: My name, location and personal E-mail are all available in my profile. If you're good, you can even find my home address and phone number on my web site, if that's what you need to recognize an opinion as legitimate.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Matt, you are NOT an outsider. We, and that includes Packard53 as well, welcome all opinions here. Your point of view is just as valuable as anyone elses, and we're glad to have you here on the Packard forum <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

However, for your own sake and benefit, go buy that Packard NOW - time's a-wastin'! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yep, you better Hurry, cause I've been look'en for that '34, <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Myself.

[Guest]

First of all let welcome you to the forum.

Lets me say from my point of view what cheapens the Blond story about Brad

1. The fact that Stuart's Claims Mr. Berry's 48 had been repainted twice, which indicates that it had been restored

2. The false claims of Brad's visits to the Packard factory and proving grounds.

3. Not giving credit to those people who made his visit possible

4. To quote Stuart that the story was to about Brad. Well it seems that he had no trouble in mentioning him and his wife several times in the story as well as his employer. Plus two whole paragraphs telling of the purchase of Brad's 53 for his employer. It seems to me that Stuart used the Berry story to blow his own horn alot, and give his employer alot of free plugs.

Yet I get blsated for telling of my involment with Mr. Berry which I think is crucial to telling my side of the story, but yet Stuart gets a free pass on this issue.

5.What you might consider my so called nit-picking of ireelevent details may seems like a monior thing to you, but to me these are important to me, as well as his omissions from the story, in my view serves to cheapen his version.

I want to THANK YOU for coming into this forum and stating your views, for which I respect you for that, but I feel that I had to respond to you with my views on the matter.

PS: I see that the National Buick event will be held in New York State this year. Which I might ad that I will be going to for an afternoon of taking pictures and asking questions

[Guest]

Brian: I am just letting you and some of the other people in the forum know, that I took your advice. I sat down at the computer for several hours, over a couple of days, and wrote a letter to the Editor of the TPC, commenting on his story about Mr. Berry. On March 1, 2005, I sent the letter to Stuart via the U.S. Postal Service Service Certified Mail. In todays mail March 7, 2005, I got the green certified slip back today with Stuart's signature on it. This provides me with proof that Stuart received and signed for the letter.

Brian, I sure hope that this letter gets printed in the TPC in the near furture, so that the readers of the TPC, might have a complete story of Brad and his final act of kindness, to the Comunity of Jersey and the Lycoming County SPCA. I would like to also say that if the letter does get published, that it will put an end to this matter.

Stuart, since you have had a couple of days to read my letter, maybe you would like to come in to the forum, and make a few comments. Such as does my letter get published and when that might happen.