Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 The phenolic spacer, that I suggested, is made made from many layers of cotton fabric in a resin material. It is easy to cut and machine, and does not conduct heat much (simular to wood). It's usually a redish brown color. It's simular to modern fiberglass but uses cotton cloth instead of glass fibers. But like I said you should try stacking gaskets with a thin sheet of stainless steel in the stack. There is a kit, for the Q-jet, made just like that. That would be much easyer that making a phenolic spacer. But Like I said I think a lot of the Heat comes from the Choke heat tube. There, that's the last I'm going say on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Constellation - Rick's idea of stacking gaskets is a good one. Don't simply use an aluminum spacer. The hot rodders do this to increase the plenum area for performance. Aluminum is a great heat conductor, rather than a heat insulator; using aluminum would not help reduce the heat.Rick - while the purpose of the choke heat tube is to provide heat for the choke WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING, very little heat is supplied to the carburetor from the choke tube once the engine is shut off, as the vacuum supplied to the tube which draws the hot air is shut off with the engine.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constellation Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 carbking,Would you use a 1/4 Stainless Steel plate as well as two gaskets, one top and one bottom ? Would This work just as well as the Phenolic Spacer ? Previously you said that you make Phenolic Spacers ? Where can I buy some Phenolic Material 1/4" Thick ? And would this be better than the Stainless Steel Spacer ?I know I ask a lot of questions. Either way this is not going to be a hard thing to get cut out. As I stated earier, I have access to some very High-Tech Machining equipment. I could have one made for the Packard style 4-GC that would look like it came with the car. Thanks,Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Jon The Hotter the Carb is while the Engine Is Running, The Hotter it's going to be after shuting off the engine. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> So you have this little purculator pot sitting there on top of engine, just boiling away. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Constallation The stainless sheet in the Q-Jet kit is almost paper thin, It just acts as a heat barrier but the gaskets that go above and below it are thicker than normal. About 10 times thicker than a normal 4GC gasket.I think you could stack many thinner gaskets to get the same effect but it would probably be better to make gaskets to fit from thicker material. I know O'Reillys sells thick gasket material like that. I made Intake and exhaust gaskets for my '37 using it and it worked great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 On my 54 Patrician the WCFB carb has a plate of thin steel that bolt to 3 of the carb mounting bolts shielding the intake manifold from the bottom of the float chambers. Does any one remember the picture of the Packard with the clothes pins clipped on the fuel line??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constellation Posted January 8, 2005 Author Share Posted January 8, 2005 Rick,I remember that years ago my Dad had a 54 Ford 6 cyl. Pick-Up that had multiple gaskets below the carburator. The Holly Single Barrel Carburator on it had a Glass Float Bowl. That was nice as you could see the gas level in it. I'll look around for that gasket material. I am even not going to give up in trying to find some Phenolic Material as well. Someone local must have some of that heavy gasket material around some where. This can't be a mystery and it can be done with gasket cutting punches, which I own. I also like the 1/4" Stainless Spacer Idea too. This may work. When I get one made I'll post the pictures. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constellation Posted January 8, 2005 Author Share Posted January 8, 2005 Brian,The more I've been diving into this the more I am beginning to find out you are probably right about the metal spacer. Now the question is which Phenolic Spacer comes the closest to that of the Packard style Rochester 4-GC for 1955 Packards and Clipper Custom. So far No Luck and where do you start. Locally there really are not any places where I can go searching to find one. Most of them are Moulded for a particular application. Now if I had a sheet of 1/4 or 3/8" Phenolic Material I might be able to make one, carefully boring the holes.Incidently, Ford used a Phenolic Spacer on the some of their vehicles back in the 1960's. However, finding one that would even come close to a Rochester 4-GC might be more difficult. For proper fuel mix, (in this case it should be a 4 Holer, I don't think an open spacer would work right) the bores in the carburator, gaskets and spacer should line up perfectly and should be a smooth transition from the carburator to the intake manifold. I like the Maple idea if all else fails. I am also wondering if some other tight grain hard wood would work just as well. That could be done. Is there a Plastic Material that can take Heat and gasoline and do the very same thing ? I see Plastic Spacers and even Nylon Spacers on line. However, I am leary of either because of heat from the manifold Cross Over. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Brian - Bakelite is made from asbestos fibers. NLA. However, there are some good thermoplastics out there. We bought some sheets used for electric furnace control panels, but these are too thick for this requirement.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bkazmer Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Bakelite is a phenolic thermoset, not thermoplastic. It does not have asbestos fibers in it, unless a specific grade were made that way to give it greater strength. "plastic" is about as specific a term as "metal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Yes, I have never seen Bakelite with fibers in it. What I have seen is solid Resin. (I guess Resin is the correct term?) It is just poured into a mold to form the part. I don't think you would want to use it for a Carb spacer. It will crack under pressure and I think heat would degrade it, also. I have seen Bakelite Knobs that are cracked from the heat of the Sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 There is a 4bbl spacer on e-bay listed as a 54, but 54 & 55 used the same WCFB carb so it should fit 55-56 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 There were some bakelite products made with asbestos in it. Unless you have something that is suspect tested I don't think you can look at it and tell if it contains asbestos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constellation Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Well you are not going to believe it. I didn't either at first. A friend has a sheet of 3/8" Phenolic Resin that he used to make spacers on Boat Engine Carburators and he gave me a piece big enough to make two spacers for a Rochester 4-GC. He knew about the problem with the gas as Boat engines suffer the same problems. The funny part of this is there was this piece of Phenolic sitting practically across the road from me and I didn't even know it.Now to make the piece, using the carburator gasket as a template. This stuff supposedly cuts like metal with a fine blade band saw and can be drilled. This will be a new experience.Bakelite is a registered trade name for a resin based compound, but came in various forms and could be colored. Moulded knobs, handles and electrical parts mostly. It replaced ceramics and wood in numerous applications years ago as it was easier and cheaper to make and thigs could be made more stylish too. Some did have asbestos fibers in it to make it heat resistant as on stove knobs and pot handles, it depended on the application. Shift nnobs on truck transmissions and coil insulators was one of the last Automotive uses commonly associated with Bakelite. Its been largely replaced by Plastics starting in the 1950's. Even Phenoilic is being phased out by glass based resins that do the same thing only better come to find out.There is always something new and better to replace whats out there.Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 With a band saw and a drill press you shouldn't have any problem knocking it out. I agree with Brian that one spacer is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Pushbutton Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Is your phenolic material that reddish-brown stock that has the fabric embedded in it? That is great stuff. We had sheets of varying thickness in the shop I worked at, and used it for many projects. You can cut it on a bandsaw, and sand it to tweak the final shape. It can be brittle. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constellation Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks Boys,The stuff is reddish brown in color. Wish me Luck.Thanks again from the Northern Zone,Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constellation Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 I just want to update you all on the progress on the Phenolic Spacer. I took the 3/8" Phenolic and had it cut and machined out using an original style Carburator gasket as a template. I also used High Temperature plastic bushings around the the stud holes as well, just like a lot of OEM spacers used to reinforce this area. I have now mounted this under the carburator using longer studs purchaced over the counter at AutoZone along with new, hand made gaskets that are almost exact duplicates of the originals. I am still in the process of testing this spacer. Please do not attempt to make this spacer on your own just yet. I wouldn't want anyone to try this and have something go wrong on their car on my say so until I have thoroughly tested this part. Afterall the Factory would have done the same before releasing a new Part and Part Number. So far all the results are encouraging. 1. All issues with the carburator building up a vapor pressure have gone away and the carburator remains cool. The Fuel no longer vaporizes in the fuel bowls.2. There seems to be no issues with carburator icing either due the car being run in cool damp weather. 3. It also seems that in all preliminary testing that I have performed that the overall performance of the Packard V-8 has actually been enhanced. 4. The use of this spacer has not caused any clearence problems with the Hood and the air cleaner. I promise that in the near Future I will post pictures of the spacer and the installation. I hope you will find this enlightening. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Great, Thanks for the Info. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Have you made a hole in the spacer for Nitrous Nozzle, Yet? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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