Rochester 4-GC Problems

[Constellation]

I have a problem, I am sending to the experts here. Maybe one of you can help me.

My 55 Custom Clipper is equipped with a Rochester 4-GC carburator. This carburator was rebuilt nearly 8 years ago. I did have trouble with the Needles and seats that came from Kanter.

This is the problem and its driving me insane. The car had a tremendous leak down. It has a new fuel pump and did it with the Old One so we may rule that out.

What I don't get is you almost have to prime it to start it sometimes and when it does start on its own it runs rich as heck even with the choke held open untill it builds up enough revs to clear it out. You can drive this car all day sometimes and not have a problem and other times it just Bogs out when you step on it. It has a tendency to sometimes diesel. Why I don't know ? The Idle screws are 1 and 1/2 turns out

It has good vacuume and there are no leaks to my knowledge. I've checked every thing. I tuned it up and it has new points, condenser and rotor and is timed perfect.

Is it the power valve maybe sticking. I just had it apart because the inside of the carb gets wet with gas and was advised it was a needle and seat issue and replaced them again and I checked the floats and the Float level and they are fine. It still gets wet inside the carb throat sitting hot especially around the accellerator ports. The car starts fine hot and runs super Idleing and even racing the engine. Then under load its sometimes fine and sometimes it runs like crap and still has a hesitation and will even stall sometimes at a stop light.

Why ? This carburator has been apart more times than I care to admit It even has a new accellerator Pump in it. So what is it ?

Thanks,

Bob

[Guest imported_Speedster]

With engine hot and throttle closed, If you screw the Idle Screws all the way in, to close them, what does it do?

If it continues to run the same, then you are getting gas from somewhere else (maybe leaking gasket).

I remember a problem I had with the secondary throttle valves not closing sometimes. There is a spring tension adjustment for them but I think mine was sticking at the shaft not allowing it to close all the way.

Does your carb have the Hot-Idle Compensator valve on top? I remember something about that causing problems if it is not opening and closing at the correct times.

[Constellation]

Rick,

No it will die out if I close the idle screws thats the funny thing. It doesn't have a Hot Idle compensator on the top either. This carburator is OEM to the car and not an off the shelf rebuilt unit. Identical to the one depicted in the shop manual.

Its been rebuilt by a someone who knows carburators and ran good for years other than the Neoprene points on the needles.

It could be dirt in the carburator causing this, a friend has advised. He said to blow out the Idle Mixture screws with Gum Out and try that. However, that doesn't account for the wetness around the accellerator ports. I wonder if there is a problem there and that that needs changing out. I have the parts to do it.

Thanks'

Bob

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

The BOWL MUST BE VENTED in some way. What u describe is either a plugged bowl vent, bad floats (test them) or excessive fuel pump pressure or bad needle and seat.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Constalation wrote:

"It still gets wet inside the carb throat sitting hot especially around the accellerator ports"

If that happens, engine off after a hard run, then the carb bowl vent is plugged. the bowl MUST have somekind of vent SOMEWHERE. WHn u turn the engine off after a long run the heat builds up in the bowl and forces gas out around any opening in the carb it can find because the vent is plugged.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

i looked at the MANUAL. there are two balogna sliced tubes at the very top of the carb that are clearly visible when u remove the air cleaner. Runn a wire or coat hanger down thru these tubes (not real hard) to see if they are plugged or not. These two tubes are the vents for the bowl.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

cheque heat riser on exhaust manifold to be sure its opening fully. Also try removing the choke to intake manifold tube as a test.

[Steve Brown]

I thought all the 55 Clippers came with Carter carbs. I know the senior cars had Rochesters. Or did they mix them up? My Panama has a 4BL Carter.

[Steve Brown]

Having thought on what I posted, I wonder if the Constellation had the Rochester because it had the larger V8. Does this sound right? The other Clippers - mine included - had the smaller engine, correct? So in that case would the Constellation have Delco instead of Autolite parts as well?

[Constellation]

Packard V-8,

The vents that you describe are clear. Actually there are 4 of them. Two directly on top of the bowl that are small and are cast in the Air Horn and the two that you describe. I checked them too and sprayed Gum-out down them. It might be a needle and seat problem, However, I doubt it. Gas never gets up to the sight plugs in the side of the bowl in either the primary or secondary bowls. The floats are set a little low so that would be ruled out.

Outside of something in the carburator body being Pourous what could be causing it ?

Steve,

Just to Clarify your inquirey, 1955 Custom Clippers came through with a 245 HP ( Slightly lower Compression)352, Cu. In. V-8 equipped with the same Rochester 4-GC just like the 400's and Patricians. The Caribbeans came through usually so equipped with 2 Rochester 4-GC's that had slightly smaller throats. All Super and Deluxe Clippers with 320's had the Carter that you describe.

Thanks,

Bob

[Steve Brown]

I had similar problems with my Carter, even after a rebuild. I eventually replaced the carb completely and at the same time added the electric fuel pump. At that point - about a year ago - the carb problems went away. So far so good.

[Steve Brown]

I always assumed that Packard bought from different suppliers - Rochester/Carter, Delco/Autolite - just to keep the competition alive and parts prices lower. Does that sound right? Otherwise why not have everything by one supplier as it would be easier.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I did have trouble with the Needles and seats that came from Kanter. </div></div>

And what was that? And it's now cured, right?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The car had a tremendous leak down. It has a new fuel pump and did it with the Old One so we may rule that out. </div></div>

Please define "leak down". Do you have an electric fuel pump also?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I don't get is you almost have to prime it to start it sometimes and when it does start on its own it runs rich as heck even with the choke held open untill it builds up enough revs to clear it out. </div></div>

Define "prime it to start it...". So when it's cold, but does start and it runs rich, this means that you had to hold the throttles wide open as well as the choke blade?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can drive this car all day sometimes and not have a problem and other times it just Bogs out when you step on it. </div></div>

So this problem sometimes also occurs when hot as well as cold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has a tendency to sometimes diesel.</div></div>

What grade gasoline are you using? Is the idle speed set at stock?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it the power valve maybe sticking.</div></div>

That's a good candidate! If it sticks "open" then you'll get a rich mixture at both cold and hot. If it sticks "closed" then you'll get a lean mixture when hot.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I just had it apart because the inside of the carb gets wet with gas and was advised it was a needle and seat issue and replaced them again and I checked the floats and the Float level and they are fine. </div></div>

There's a problem with viton needles with today's gas, but if you have brass ones then you're OK.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It still gets wet inside the carb throat sitting hot especially around the accellerator ports. The car starts fine hot and runs super Idleing and even racing the engine. Then under load its sometimes fine and sometimes it runs like crap and still has a hesitation and will even stall sometimes at a stop light.

Why ? This carburator has been apart more times than I care to admit It even has a new accellerator Pump in it. So what is it ?</div></div>

From all of the above and if your fuel pressure is OK and if you don't have a viton needle, then I suspect a sticky power valve.

[Constellation]

Craig,

The leak down is the gas leaving the bowl and actually backing down the fuel line. Hence, you can crank it over and over and it will not start after it sits for a day or so. Put a little gas down the carb and it starts right up and it will run. It has done this with both mechanical fuel pumps, the old one and a brand new one. There are no leaks in the fuel system either.

Gas I use 93 Octane Exxon. Not that 93 Octane from someone else wouldn't do it to.

The needles are Stainless Steel and the seats are Brass. The recent set I put in are in nice shape and are matched as well and are of the same quality. The Bowls were not overflowing before all though this mechanic friend of mine swore up and down that was the problem and they didn't again with the second set.

I do suspect the Power Valve. That could be it.

Upon further investigation the gas in the throat migrates from the area under the accelerator ports. I now feel that the gasket there may be suspect too. This happens only if it sits for a while Hot and by the time it gets cool its loaded with gas. If you don't start it for 2 days you have to prime it. Because by that time the gas has evaporated.

I changed out the long spring loaded stem for the power valve because the spring on it was in sad shape with an Identical good one. However, I have noticed a difference in the lengths between some of the ones I have. I don't know if it was a change or if the bowls were deeper. This style carburator was used until 1969 on all kinds of applications. This could be a problem that was solved.

This is One for the Books

The Viton needle points that you decribe came with the Kanter rebuild kit. This "New" gas with MBTE ate at them. Littrally they got so sticky, they glued the needles to the seats and would not allow gas to go through. This drove me nuts back in 1997. The Viton or neoprene Points on the needles would actually stick to my fingers as they were gooey . I changed them out with a matched set of SS Needles and Brass Seats and never had problems again. I have a witness to this who saw it. He didn't believe it. I showed the guy who rebuilt the carburator for me, he didn't believe it until he saw it himself.

The good people at the Packard Dept. at Kanter's were less than enthusiastic about my claim and said they never had a problem, which I doubt even though I never asked them to make good.

Thanks,

Bob

[55Connie]

<The leak down is the gas leaving the bowl and actually backing down the fuel line. Hence, you can crank it over and over and it will not start after it sits for a day or so.>

My 4GC does this too. I have an electric boost pump to fill the float bowl, which I have to use on just about every cold start. I'm guessing you're experiencing more than one problem simultaneously.

Is there a bolt-on Edelbrock?

55Connie

[carbking]

There is a lot of very well meant, but nontheless very incorrect information on this thread.

First, I believe the problems experienced by the thread originator are directly related to the fuel being used. The volatility of modern fuel is MUCH different than that for which the carburetor was designed to use. This creates hot starting problems (the engine is flooded due to evaporation and an over-rich mixture in the intake manifold) and cold starting problems (the evaporation continued, and the carburetor bowl is dry).

One learns to either install an electric pump for cold starts; or prime the carburetor with a couple of teaspoons of gasoline.

The hot start problems can generally be eliminated by using a different method to start the car. Forget what you have been told since childhood about holding the throttle to the floor to start a flooded engine. Instead, do not look at the throttle, let alone touch it when the engine is hot. Crank the engine for 3 to 8 seconds (this will vary with different engines) then GENTLY press the throttle down about one third. The car will normally start.

The Rochester 4-G series carburetors don't have "pensonalities". They either work, or they don't work. Intermittant problems such as described will be either fuel related (too much volatility, too much pressure, etc.) or ignition related (in this case I would bet on fuel).

Some other items discussed:

The original needles are NOT stainless, they are steel and WILL rust!

Leakdown was a term derived from much older (1930's) carburetors which had the fuel valve in the bottom of the bowl. If the valve leaked, then the bowl would drain back into the tank. The Rochester 4-G series has the fuel valve in the airhorn, hence it is impossible for the fuel to leak back into the tank (unless the automobile is being stored upside down <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).

Neopreme valves starting appearing in the 1950's and 1960's as they were more forgiving of rust particles in the gasoline than the steel needles. Accelerator pump skirts of neopreme started appearing in the 1960's because they are MUCH cheaper to produce than using leather (and much inferior also <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />). The compound used for neopreme has changed many times over the years, as the composition of gasoline (fuel) changes over the years. The older neopreme is not compatible with any of today's gasoline. The new neopreme is not compatible with MTBE and many of the miraculous wonderful superlative additives which are sold to put in the fuel tank with the fuel (including ethanol, which should be avoided whenever possible with older vehicles).

I have personally witnessed the neopreme tips and accelerator pump skirts actually DISOLVE in some of the aftermarket additives.

The problems with the neopreme did not come on as a uniform problem. When we started seeing problems years ago, it took awhile to see that the problems were confined to (A) customers using additives (we didn't know unless told) or ( customers located in the "save-the-planet" states (read MTBE). I can well believe Kanters did not think there was a problem 8 years ago.

Another recent (last 2 or three years) problem that has been blamed on neopreme is actually one manufacturers attempt to save money. One manufacture ceased "staking" of the fuel valves. This is a step that places a perfect chamfer on the seat orifice, helping the valve to seal. The hobbyist can duplicate this step when rebuilding a carburetor by doing the following: (A) obtain a small block of wood, a steel ball bearing, a drift punch, and a hammer; ( place the fuel valve seat thread down on the block of wood; © place the steel ball bearing in the seat covering the orifice; (D) place the drift punch on top of the ball and (E) whack (highly technical term meaning to strike briskly) the punch with the hammer.

Hopefully, this will clear up some of the misunderstandings, and allow the thread originator to start his car (at least hot).

If an electric pump is installed to help cold starting, remember that federal law (and this is a GOOD one!) requires that electric pumps MUST be permanently wired to an oil pressure switch.

Oh, and to the poster asking if there were a bolt on modern carb, the answer is NO! While some of the newer carbs may fit the bolt pattern, the bore pattern was changed in 1961, with the center to center spacing being increased (on the same size carburetor) one eighth inch from side to side (fender to fender). This is sufficient that the thottle plates will stick in the intake. Also the air cleaner size on the older carbs was four and three fourths inches, whereas the new ones are five and one eighth inches; so the air cleaner will not fit.

Jon.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

carbking wrote:

'...directly related to the fuel being used. The volatility of modern fuel is MUCH different than that for which the carburetor was designed to use. This creates hot starting problems ...'.

I've often heard this same claim from other experienced people. However, WHY IS IT that i have NO problems whatsoever???? 48 Indian, 56 Packard, 73 Chev, 88 Ford ranger, 56 cushman, 51 ferguson tractor. ALL of these are very original, vehicles with no modern updates to the engines. NO electric fuel pumps. AND i run them hard during hot summers and cold winters.

Altho i will agree that gas formulations have certainly changed over the years i cannot even remotely blame any fuel delivery problems i've solved on various vehicles on fuel itself.

[carbking]

Brian, you are correct that carburetor manufacturers addressed the percolation problem years ago. Not sure exactly when this was first addressed, but I know that Carter had the brass anti-percolater valves as early as 1936 on their WD-0 two-barrel carburetor.

As to your comment on metal needles in O.E. carb kits up into the 70's: you might be surprised if you pulled one of those and inspected the valve seat. As you would be aware, much "creative engineering" is done to avoid patent royalties. One of the carburetor manufactures imbedded a neopreme washer in the fuel valve seat (the orifice was the washer) and used a metal needle with the "resilient" seat. I personally never cared for these myself; however this gave a neopreme fuel valve with no royalties. We have been using the steel needles from these "resilient" fuel valves in staked brass seats with no problems. The neopreme in these seats is old enough it really has problems with todays gasoline.

Different carburetors and different engines handle the heat and the volatility in varying degrees of success. While I really like the Carter AFB, the aluminum body REALLY has major problems with hot soak. I had installed one on my Ford shop truck with 390 CID and had MAJOR hot soak problems about 20 years ago. Once, when I was quite exasperated when the engine wouldn't start, I jerked the top from the carburetor and found the bowl bone-dry and the engine had been running not an hour before. This is when I installed my first electric fuel pump and learned to stay off the footfeed. Still have the truck with the AFB and it starts great, both hot or cold. It has a manual choke, and of course that is much superior to the automatic choke. In general, 4 and 6 cylinder engines and straight 8 engines tend to have fewer hot soak problems than V-8's; as the heat is less concentrated at the point of carburetor attachment. Also, using a heat resistant spacer (we know asbestos is totally out of the question) rather than the paper carburetor mounting gaskets in some insexpensive kits also seems to help. We have been making mounting gaskets from Armstrong N-8090 material.

When one has difficulties, one is forced to learn <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jon.

[Constellation]

Carb King,

Thank you so much. I think I have gotten to the bottom of the Problem or at least part of it.

There was an experiment I did with this car. Largely because of your response. I let it Idle and get hot. It ran fine. When I shut it off after a few minutes I actually watched the Fuel bowl on the stock fuel filter empty out. Hmmmm. I took the sight plug out of the side of the primary bowl it was not over full as no gas came out of the plug, the float was boyant in that it was up all the way and the needle and seat was closed. With a small screw driver, I reached in and pushed the float down. Pressure but no gas entered the fuel bowl and gas returned to the fuel filter bowl. I then released the float. I again watched it because it was still hot and it happend again. I did the same thing again. I found this interesting. You are probably very right that the fuel when left long and hot enough was building up enough pressure to force the needle off the seat. This probably what was causing the Hot soak problem which in cold weather might cause the engine to be loaded with gas when it got cold.

Then I remembered one other thing that I had read some where about Fuel vaporization and it had to do with differences in summer and winter vaporization because of free Hydro Carbon- VOC release at the Gas Pump to protect the Ozone Layer. In the summer the Oil Companies raise the Vaporization Pressure to prevent release of free Hydro Carbons and VOC's into the atmosphere. In the winter its lowered to help cars start better.

I live in one of the So Called "Green" States, Massachusetts, which has strict HC & VOC regulations. I do not doubt this.

This starting to make sense as to why this went away in the summer and came back this winter. The other variable in this is the new pre-bent fuel line from the Fuel Pump to the Carburator I installed last year. I had problems last winter though it was colder out and didn't manifest themselves as bad. The previous fuel line was outside the water pump and water outlet cross over area and was out in mid air going to the fuel filter. Hence it never got that hot.

The other thing in this is the 53 Packard never had this problem. Because the carburator on that never gets as hot, because its not over a localized heat source as on the V-8, like you said. The fuel pump is heat shielded from the exhaust maniflold and the fuel line is out in the open.

It could be that to cure part of this I have to do two things. Re-route the fuel line so its back outside the water pump and crossover area. And heat sink the carburator better.

Where do I get this Gasket Material ?

Thanks again,

Bob

PS Thanks to everyone for trying to help.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I would think you could make a spacer/insulator from stacked gaskets with maybe a sheet of stainless in the stack. May have to get longer mounting bolts, tho.

My '37 has about 1/2" thick spacer made from some type of hard gasket material.

I have heard of spacers being made from phenolic and hard wood, to solve simular problem.

I doubt that anyone makes a plastic spacer, like used on Q-Jet, to fit the 4GC?

[Guest JT]

Bob, I had the same symptons as you with fuel leaking after hot shut off on a stromberg 2 barrel carb even after a rebuild by a good rebuilder of old carbs. I sent it back to the rebuilder and he again replaced needle and seat and checked float and bowl for any leaks. No problems found. Got it back and same problem. I discussed maximum fuel pressures with him and for my carb 3 lbs is about max. I checked the specs on an AC fuel pump for my car and as I remember it was rated about 4 or 4-1/2 lbs. I then installed a pressure regulator and set at on about 2 1/2 or 3 lbs and have had no problems since.

For $20 it might be worth a try.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Bob, okay, I have to bite - where is this sight plug in the side

of the primary bowl? Are you running a different 4GC - perhaps

a Caddy version? I have a NOS bowl and cannot see any sign of a

sight plug and don't remember that in the NOS carb I am running.

What am I missing?

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

TWO QUESTIONS:

1. Is the HEAT RISER on the exhaust manifold working?????? It must be OPEN when engine is hot.

2. Have u tried disconnecting the tube that runs from the CHOKE to the manifold???

I'm not familiar with the 53 engine. How does the carb get heat on the 53???

[Constellation]

Packard V-8,

The heat riser on the 55 works fine and so does the choke. On the 53 and all later Straight 8's. There is a Heat Riser stove built into Exhaust Manifold just aft of the carburator location that supplies heat to the riser for the Automatic Choke.

No I have not disconnected the Choke Riser as there is no real problem with it.

[Constellation]

Randy,

If you refer to your Shop Manual you will note the location of the plugs located near the top, side front and rear corners of the drivers side of the carburator. They look like 2 large Screws. Most early versions of the 4-GC had these and they were deleted on the later versions.

These plugs are handy actually. They have the purpose of being able to tell if the fuel level is to high if it runs out of the plug hole. In this case they had a Diagnostic purpose to tell me that the carburator was not full or overflowing when Hot. What it did tell me is there is some sort of Vaporization due to heat of the fuel that causes the fuel to back down the fuel line out of the fuel filter bowl before the carburator. When I released this pressure just enough to allow the fuel to come back into the fuel filter I was able to assertain there is a Vaporization problem in the line due to what I believe is too much heat being radiated from the water pump cross over.

What I think is happening and where the carbking is right is that to much Vapor pressure is being built up and allowing the needles to be lifted from their seats.

The Fuel line is a stock pre-bent fuel line I installed last year. The one that was on there before was outside of the Water Pump Crossover and not subjected to as much heat.

Thanks,

Bob

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Try it again with gas cap removed from gas tank.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Randy,

If you refer to your Shop Manual you will note the location of the plugs located near the top, side front and rear corners of the drivers side of the carburator. They look like 2 large Screws. Most early versions of the 4-GC had these and they were deleted on the later versions.</div></div>

As a point of reference, the 4GC on my 55 Pat (early production number) also has these "sight plugs".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These plugs are handy actually. They have the purpose of being able to tell if the fuel level is to high if it runs out of the plug hole. (snip)</div></div>

I've used them for exactly the same thing. Also, if one does not have an electric fuel pump, one can squirt gas into these holes with a squirt can to fill the fuel bowls rather than pour gas down the carb throat. Been there, done that before I installed an electric fuel pump.

[Guest Randy Berger]

Bob,

<span style="font-style: italic">They look like 2 large Screws. Most early versions of the 4-GC had these and they were deleted on the later versions. </span>

Thanks - I only have 1956 4GCs and that NOS bowl and none of them have the sight plugs - didn't check the shop manual <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Constellation

I think what was being suggested, by removing the Choke heat-riser tube you will be removing one of the Main Heat Sources to the Carb, which should let it run cooler. And if that cures the problem, then you will know if it is just an overheat problem.

[carbking]

The sight plugs were used on the 1955 Packard 4GC, but not on the 1956 Packard 4GC. Other makes continued to use the sight plug. It is a function of a specific carburetor, not of a year.

Jon.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Lets go with the fuel formulation problem. Ok. Then, whats the solution??????

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Solution is to Reduce Heat to Carb, with spacers/insulators between carb and manifold and maybe using a manual choke instead of heat tube type.

[Steve Brown]

I'm sure this will stir some people up, but how about trying some Marvel Mystery Oil? I've always heard the old timers say it helps with vapor lock because it makes gasoline less volatile.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Steve

MM Oil may be Good Stuff, but the problem is that no one likes having to pour in Additives every time you fill up. A more permanent solution is needed to this type problem.

[55PackardGuy]

Speaking of "filling up" remember that "oxygenated" gas with added ethanol will have a greater tendency to percolate. If you can find "clear" unleaded gasoline (it's available here in Minn. for use in collector cars, boats, off-road, garden equipment etc.) you may go a long way to solving this problem. Mobil stations seem to carry it most often. You have to look for the special pump. Sometimes it's reffered to as "racing gas."

BTW, I think re-routing that gas line is an EXCELLENT idea! Both because it makes sense in general and because it's something that has been CHANGED. My seat-of-the-pants diagnostics approach includes this question every time something goes wrong--what did I change? The fuel line on your Packard could have been re-routed for a REASON. Sometimes things that look like previous owners' mistakes were actually solutions to a problem arrived at after much pain and agony.

[carbking]

PackardV8 - the solution to the hot hard start problem is in my first post in this thread. The only solution I have found to the cold start problem (where the bowl is dry) is the electric pump. A phenolic spacer MIGHT (or might not) help, as it might help isolate the carburetor bowls from the heat. As someone mentioned longer mounting bolts might be necessary. One caviat to those who may wish to try this: generally speaking, one can expect slightly better wide open throttle performance with the spacer; HOWEVER adding a spacer of an inch or more can (and probably will) introduce idle issues.

I personally SOLVED the problem on my Ford shop truck by installing an electric fuel pump (for cold starts) and learning to use the alternate hot start problem mentioned in my first post.

If anyone comes up with a foolproof method other than above PLEASE CALL!!! I get this question in the shop at least 5 times daily from owners of many different makes of cars; would delight in being able to pass on any working answer.

Jon.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

carbking: can u supply parts for the Carter WCFB???? i mite be needing an accelerator pump plunger. Also, do u have any Linkert parts??? Probably need to post your email adress here or better yet your shop address.

Do u own a Packard?????

[Guest JT]

Bob, you might want to try insulating the fuel line with this type material:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stor...p;amp;langId=-1

I've also seen it for sale in hardware stores.

Another test of the system would be to install a tee fitting with pressure gauge in the fuel line between the pump and carb to see if your pressure is excessive.

[carbking]

PackardV8 - check my bio.

Jon.

[Constellation]

J.T.,

Thanks, You know the automakers used this same woven Fiberglass composite material to do the very same thing for years. I actually have some of it as insulation on the lower end of the choke heat riser that I got off a a 79 Ford Van in the Junk Yard. The stuff is good and would work. Armor Flex which is a black foam material may also work. I have thought about some of that as well.

The Phenolic Spacer that the carbking speaks of. Is it a hard Plastic material ? I want to know more as to where to get this material and what it is really made of? What is the best way to cut it ? Or would a 1/4 inch thick or more aluminum plate like some of the Hot Rodder's use work. I have access to some very sophisticated machining equipment. I wonder.

Thanks,

Bob