lead or no lead

[johnnie276]

Should I add a lead additive to the fuel for my '64 Olds?, the engine is a 394ci., i know in '64 they had leaded fuel, I run lead in my '40 chevy, seems to run fine,,, talking to guys in the club, some say do add lead some say don't, and others say it doesn't matter??,, anyone's opinion on this would greatly appreciated,,,,,,,, thanks........

johnnie

[rocketraider]

If the 394 will run without pinging, you can probably get away without it. If you intend to run it the way it was meant to be driven, you probably need it. It is a 10.5 CR iron-headed engine that was designed for 100+ octane. I have to mix a potion every time I fill up my 64 Starfire. For that matter the Toro wants it too. It is so nice to pull the Hurst and Ninety Eight up to an 87 or 89 pump and they're happy with it.

My experience is that high compression Olds engines need more than 93 octane. You can try running one heat range colder plug (AC 43 or equivalent vs the 44) or experiment with the advance curve, but there aren't as many proven curves for those distributors as there are for 65-later versions.

You may find that installing a Mallory, Jacobs or Pertronix electronic ignition module and an MSD control box will help.

[johnnie276]

Thanks Rocketraider, i need to run it awhile to see if it pings or not, haven't got it on the road yet, waiting on an insurance card,, and i've been told by others about the octane issue, i guess I will be making potions up too at the gas pump,,,, it smokes a little, i'll see if that gets any better after it's on the road,, most likely will need valve seals like you said,,, also need to put exaust on it, both sides, still has the original,,, thanks for the advice, i will be back.......

john Habecker

[rocketraider]

If the J-I still has its chambered pipe/front & rear resonator exhaust system and it is salvageable at all, keep it on there or at least save it if you have storage room. The rear resonators are not hard to find, and a LOT of digging might produce the front resonators, but the chambered sections are unobtainium.

A good muffler shop can make the chambered pipes out of stock tubing and some Walker Turbo-Tubes if you can convince them what you want to do. Otherwise, you'll have to settle for stock tubing custom bent and a pair of good performance mufflers.

If the muffler guy hasn't done an early 60s Olds, he might comment about the exhaust pipes being two different sizes. No fear, it was SOP at Olds.

[johnnie276]

Thanks for the heads up on the resonators, i'm going to print out your post and take it with me,,, the mufflers in the back are pretty much shot, and the right side pipe was ripped out of the manifold during shipment,it looks pretty well rusty,, i'll know more when we get it on the lift,,, thanks again for you advice, it's greatly appreciated,,,, a little off the subject but i just spent all 4 days over the turkey rod run in daytona, on fri. and sat. there were 10,000 cars, i walked the show for 4 hours both days and didn't see one J-1,, are they a scarce car?, or is it nobody wants them?,,,,,,,, thanks again....

johnnie

[rocketraider]

The J-I is a desirable Oldsmobile but after 40 years there aren't many left of the original 16,000 or so built. Put it this way- at an Oldsmobile National meet, you might see one or two. A 65 (6552 made) is even scarcer.

[johnnie276]

Thanks again Rocketraider for your help,, i'm sure you'll be hearing from me again,,

johnnie

[ogster]

Lead fuel additive was one of the greatest hoaxes ever pulled on the American public. Initially lead was added to gasoline to up the octane and was also touted as an upper engine lubricant. Hooey!!! What lead did was poison the environment(think about it) and cause the automobile engine to wear out sooner(neccessitating frequent replacement). The function of oil is to create a barrier between metal parts to reduce wear. Let's add metal to the fuel to lubricate the metal engine parts(yeah, right)!

By example, modern vehicles do not use lead and can run easily to 200K miles without major repairs, the spark plugs last longer and the oil is changed less often(another ecological and economic benefit). Cars of yore ran 100K(maybe), they needed to be tuned every 6,000 miles or so and a 3,000 mile oil change was a ritual.

So my advice is to keep lead additives out of your tank and run a high octane fuel if you need to.

Ray

[rocketraider]

Metallurgy back then was different than it is now. TEL was used to cushion the valve to seat contact area on the heads, and without it the valve seats WILL recede into the head if the car is driven harder than leisurely.

Around 1970 or so, the carmakers realised they could induction-harden the valve seat areas or install hardened seat inserts and run their engines on unleaded fuel. Compression ratios dropped in 1971 which negated the need for octane boosting additives. But I can guarantee if you try to run 93 octane unleaded in any cast-iron engine with >9.5:1 CR, that engine is not going be very forgiving.

Soft, slippery metals such as lead, lithium, molybdenum, zinc or sodium are very effective metal to metal lubricants and are routinely added to high-pressure/high-performance petroleum-based lubricants.

I have started running Diesel-spec engine oil in all my old cars for that reason. Diesel formulations still have the metallic additives that reduce run-off during storage and provide essential start-up lubrication. Current gasoline-exclusive oil formulae no longer have those additives. A newer car that is driven every day with little chance of oil run-off can get by without them because the engine metallurgy is way advanced from 15-25 years ago.

Before an argument ignites about Diesel-spec oil being unsuitable for gasoline engines, all you need do is look at the API rating on the oil container. Rotella, Delo, Drydene, all of them meet API SL (highest gasoline rating) as well as CH-4 (highest Diesel rating).