Buick Dealer Showing some Old School!

[BigFella]

BqUICK from the performance section sent me these pictures of his 70 Electra 2-Door being honored at the Fox Buick Dealership in Gang Mills NY! It is a low mileage survivor in incredible condition and looks like the twin of 70 Electra 's car that was on the cover of this months Bugle. I saw BqUICK's car up close a few months ago and it is immaculate. We even pulled the back seat and recovered the Build Sheet! The original owner babied the car in every way, even using baby oil to keep all the rubber seal fresh and plyable. We took a drive through Watkins Glen in this car and I realized what my Electra *should* drive and sound like! Woof!

[Reatta Man]

Too bad other Buick dealers don't do this. A local Chevy dealer had a pristine '55 in his showroom. The local Red McCombs Ford used to keep a vintage Lincoln convertible and Mustange coupe in the showroom.

Lots of Buick dealers almost act as if they are afraid of the old, $4,000 solid, 300 hp, chrome and flash Buicks to be up against their dark colored, stripped down $30,000 no-chrome....oh, wait a minute, I think I just figured this out....

By the way, what an incredible looking car....the owner of that beautiful king-of-the-highway road beast has reason to be proud......

Joe

[Guest 70 Electra]

What a gorgeous car!! I hope you will add it to your website, along with some text on its background.

In response to my convertible appearing on the July Bugle cover, I've received a couple of interesting letters. One is from a Florida gentleman that has a light green 225 coupe that is a 25K-mile survivor. I owe him a return letter, but will no doubt surprise him when I tell him I had a chance to buy the car twice (from 2 different owners) before him, and am actually very familiar with it. It is truly a sweet car! I will encourage him to contact you so it can be added to your excellent website.

Relative to the car dealer display, I have a good friend that owns a 4,500 mile 1964 Impala coupe. It spent several years on a showroom floor in the late 1970s-early 80s. (yeah, I know it's not a Buick, but man-oh-man what an incredible car!)

[BigFella]

Cool! Yes I have *lots* of pictures of BqUICK's 70 Electra. I will be doing a pictorial for it soon.

Hey check out the pictures SMartin put up from Plano in the "Plano Nationals" topic. Is that your Electra or is there another one! :-)

[Guest 70 Electra]

Nope, it's not my car. I'm embarassed to say mine's not been out of the garage since last August.

I'll have to check out the pictures of Plano.

[HurstGN]

Several years ago, Carlisle Productions invited me to put my 82 Grand National on display for their "100 Year Anniversary" of the automobile. I was to be in Phoenixville PA the following week for another show and didn't want to drive the car back and forth across PA for the shows. Joe at Phoenixville Buick offered to store my car for the week, in the showroom. When we returned to put the car in the second show, graciously hosted by Joe as well, Joe told us he could have sold the car 10 times during the week. My car was in good hands for the week and it helped draw in a few customers to Joe's dealership. Maybe more dealers should consider placing a classic in the window once in a while to stir things up a bit. In my case, it was mutually beneficial to Joe and I.

[BqUICK]

John,

Thanks for posting photos of my 1970 Buick Electra 225 Custom Coupe. I really like Jane Fox and her Fox Auto Group. She does a lot of commercials here locally and I think has a very positive image. I know that times are changing and our American people demand the foreign stuff but its refreshing to see a Buick dealer that actually sells Buicks/Pontiacs/Cadillacs and promotes them on the front row at that location.

The '70s nickname is Janine and she is special. This car belonged to a veteran in Lancaster, SC. The leather key case has a veteran's identification number in the event the keys were ever lost. The case was in, strangely enough, the same condition as the car, old yet new. The old man was an auto wholesaler and rarely drove this car. The owner died about 4 years ago and left this world without having driven this car more than 16K miles. It clicked 20K a few months ago.

It was too far for me to travel so I had a local BCA member check it out for me in SC. When it arrived I was shocked and disappointed. Obviosly the car had been repainted to somehow look original. My heart sank and guts felt kicked in. You know the feeling. Either I had been conned or it was really somehow original. No scratches, no dents, unreal top, & interior. The gaskets were soft and the glass looked new, like the windows were never down. I pulled off the skirts, they were so clean I laid them on my leather coat. My body man looked at her then looked at me and asked me "How many original low mileage cars have you seen before?" Not many I answered. "What you have here is called a SURVIVOR" "Its all original" "See, here are the crowns in the paint, these raised ridges" What was that, I asked as he pointed to the edges of the doors and trunk. "It shows that the car has never been buffed out before." "Its all original, its a survivor" he said again. The next week I put it up on a lift and was amazed at the condition. Some chipped paint and surface rust but really clean. It had those funny looking old twisted shocks but drove really tight.

Hmm. The neighbor who had bought the car after the old soldier died said the owner told him that "she was always hand washed and dried. Never machine washed." "He'd put baby oil on her after a wash" I remembered. "Never driven in the rain" "Always garaged" "It was driven out of the county one time." She sat in a used car lot on consignment for a couple of months and when I showed interest on E-Bay they stored it indoors.

When the car was sold to the neighbor about 3 or so years ago, he figured on making it safe to drive. It had sat for a good while when the owner got sick. His boys would follow the washing and oiling ritual as I still do today but it was not driven for awhile. All the reciepts add up to about three or four in total, perhaps ever. All recent hoses, belts, plugs, & wires. Some old dry cleaning or other reciept from years and years ago thrown in. Original brake shoes. They went to give it a brake job because the cylinders had frozen. Well they pulled off the drums and the shoes were still new so they left them on! The tires were original bias ply so they figured those were unsafe and got rid of them. The rims showed where the hub caps were pulled off only 3 or 4 times, including when I put the Sport Wheels on, perhaps a tire change or rotations I guess.

Tom Wagner races a 1969 Buick Wildcat and lives nearby. He helped me set the timing and dwell. I took her to the track and ran a 16.214 at 85.68mph. She beat a Lincoln Continental Mark VII with the fuel injected Mustang engine running 16.356 @ 85.68. I had picked up .5 sec after Toms tune up. Janine was a very impressive sight under those New York International Speedway Lights. She cruised home and got about 17+ mpg. Good girl!

[Guest 70 Electra]

BqUICK,

What a beautiful car, and a great story. I hope to see photos and a write-up in the Bugle sometime in the future. Congrats on having a survivor and having the discipline to maintain it as it deserves!

[55PackardGuy]

BqUICK,

What a great discovery! It's the same color as our '69 was, but that had a white top and tan interior (and four doors). You sure know what to do with your cars--use them and enjoy them! You've increased the odometer 33% from what it registered in the car's first 30+ years, and given it the "experience" of an official timeslip. I'm embarassed to ask, because it might be a stupid question (as I don't know the engine options in 1970), but does it have a 455 or 430? Either way, it's a gem.

[BigFella]

It has the 1970 version of the 455 in it. Here are some pictures I took of the engine bay on my trip.

[BqUICK]

John,

Thanks for putting up the photos of the engine compartment and answering Guy's 455/430 question. There have been many debates over which engine actually performed better. 430 has a top end advantage and fuel economy versus the low end torque of the 455. Basically the same block with a different bore. I will now have an opportunity to investigate the performance of both types in detail as I own both a 1969 and 1970 in both fairly stock condition.

Greg, I have always admired that 1960 LeSabre and the wonderful article descibing the sustained high speed capabilities of the 1960 model. The '70 coupe, Janine, ran 10 laps at Watkins Glen last week. Some in-car video will be available for your enjoyment soon. Your '60 brings back memories of the first Buick I can really remember, a 1959 Electra 225. Your cars are really beautiful! I shall work to keep my Electras in as good a condition.

Michael

[55PackardGuy]

Michael,

A comparison between the '69 430 and the '70 455 would be most interesting. As long as they are geared the same, it should make a pretty accurate test. Just wondering if the 455 in 1970 retained the compression ratio of 10.5:1 that the 430 had, or if it was lowered that first year. Many manufacturers didn't go to the lower compression until '71 or '72 as I recall, so could this be a "special" 455? The high-compression heads (Stage I or Stage II) came out later, correct? They were somewhere around 11:1 as I recall. This is more than idle curiosity, as if I am in the market for an early '70s Buick, it will narrow down my shopping list.

[BqUICK]

Guy,

I believe that there is 10.0 to 1 in the 455 in 1970. The 400 & 430 heads had smaller chambers, as I recall. Their compression ratio was a point or so higher because of this. (Actual compression probably varied somewhat.)

The 455 buick block was as light as the aluminum Chevy block and had more power than the 454, 427, 428, 426, 460, or other 455s etc. Basically, Buick big blocks were the last designed by the big 3 in that era. No magic, just the latest engine design. Most of the Chevy, Pontiac, & Olds hardware consisted of warmed over designs from the 50's.

New engine programs cost millions, even in the '60s. The others had literally thousands of power adder options and marketing glitz but still could not match the '70 GS 13.38 quarter mile times! Even the massive 4,700 lb Buick Electra could manage low 15s with the 430 and could became a lethal 11 second street sleeper with the right engine work.

A 1970 455 STAGE 1 GS Convertible Buick is the most collectable. 430 cars are not GS cars, are obscure and not appreciated. A super rare 430 dealer option 1968 & 1969 Stage I or II (yeah that's right! In the '60s, 400 & 430 Stage I & II options were based on the cam, heads would come in 1969 for the 1970 model year and the 455 only. Stage II heads came even later, '71 I think!)would be very very valuable in any body it came in. Good luck with your search. What are you looking for?

[55PackardGuy]

Michael,

Well, now that you mention it, I'd like a '69 Electra 2-door ht with 430, and if I found one with a dealer option Stage I or Stage II cam setup all the better!

The 430 specs I have are 10.5:1 compression. Very healthy, but it sounds like the early 455 was close--a little carbon and who'd know the difference? However, didn't the standard 455 go to lower compression to meet emissions in '72 or '73? (Thus making '71 my "cutoff" year.)

Interesting how in some years "Stage I" or "Stage II" just meant different cams, and in later years they meant different heads. This is really something to watch out for. And then, what were the differences between Stage I and II heads? And, if that ain't complicated enough, were there different cam options available with them as well? It sounds like you could write a book about it. Call it "Stage Fright."

I well remember when my Dad finally got sick of the 454 in our '74 Chevy pickup and replaced it with a 430. The front end went up about three inches--we hung the spare tire up front to even it out! I've heard people refer to the Buick bb's as "boat anchors." You could anchor a much bigger boat with the Chevy bb's. In fact, I have heard that the 430 was actually lighter than the SBC. Never looked it up, though.

Thanks for the info.

[BqUICK]

GS,

I do not know if you go by "GS" but I thought it was Kool! Hey you are right about the "unknown" potential of the 430. There is a nice link on 430 gas mileage where people are documenting 22+ mpgs in 430 powered 1969 Electra 225s.

I have personally documented a best of 21mpg in my 2.56 geared 4,700 lb 1969 Electra Custom Convertible.

There were special Buick "430 STAGE II" engines which really blew people's minds. Imagine here you are back in 1968 ordering a GS 400 and its illegal for you to get a car of that size with anything more than 400 cubes. Well, you could get a 430, STAGE II cam, 11 to 1 Forged TRW pistons, B4B Aluminum Manifold, Mickey Thompson Super Competition Headers, Mallory Dual Point Distributor, some trick head work, a few other little tricks that some of the West Coast Buick boys were using to spank SS 409s with Invictas, including 4.44 Buick gears from a Flexible Ambulance, and you had low 11s in 1969. That is the stuff no one talks about.

The Buick performance story is really atypical. It was the owner, not scores of Madison avenue marketing wienies, that gave Buick its reputation on the street.

Sure

The 400, 430, &455 Buick blocks were the last big block motors designed and built by any of the big 3 in that era. They were inexpensive, light (within 50 lbs of a SBC 350 and about as much as the Aluminum ZL-1, believe it or not!)and powerful. There are people that still tell stories about 1969 Electras terrorizing the street racing scene in the '70s with 430s on nitrous, before people knew about nitrous!

"Uncle Buddy", "Hydro", "Pop", "Joe Booga", "City Boy", "Pee Gee" were some of the Buick racers and organizations that dominated the streets in those days. There were certainly limitations, such as core shift, oiling related failures, water pump failures, spun cam bearings and the like. Scotty Guadagno, who raced a street legal 4,700lb documented 11.7 1970 Electra was part of that scene. He and Pee Gee Performance helped to define the Buick Electra mystique back in those days. He is now the top dyno man for Pat Musi's shop in New Jersey. He built the engine for my Electra GSX.

Car Craft noted that for up to $8,000.00 there is no more powerful engine that you can build. Not Chrysler, Not Chevy, Not Pontiac, Only Buick!

God Speed

[55PackardGuy]

Michael,

Thanks for all the great history! If I find my dream '69 it'll probably stay stock. It's hard for me to think of ways to improve on such a fine example of automotive craftsmanship--maybe lack of imagination?

I think the 430 gas mileage thread was actually one I started based on my experiences with a '69 Electra 225 4-door hardtop that consistently broke 20 mpg. The car was purchased with 115K miles and performed flawlessly from day one. The engine was never touched except to replace the plastic timing gear BEFORE it went out. I drove the car from Minneapolis to L.A. and back in July of '78, including through the desert during the day with the AC on! (at least downhill) It was a trouble free trip. In fact, the only major repairs ever needed on the car in the 5 years we had it were the rear axle which broke (!) and looked like it was flawed from the factory (rust in a crack), and the TH transmission modulator which blew out--a mess but not a big deal. The next owner of the car had nothing in the way of major repairs. I know that because he was local and my father worked on his cars--it was never in the shop. It finally went out to pasture after a hailstorm hit it, with over 200K on the clock.

The car actually wasn't that fast off the line. Part of the secret to the gas mileage was a lot of timing advance, and I'm sure it had highway gearing. It was a great cruiser, but under acceleration it was "ping, ping, ping" all the way. Probably carboned up, too.

Anything will break if you race it, but under normal service, these cars seemed to be almost indestructible and completely reliable.

Yes, "GS" is a good set of initials for a Buick enthusiast. I'd noticed that myself, but no one else ever has mentioned it. If I find a 430 GS it'll be hard to resist!

Thanks again for your post, and taking time out from your Pursuit to reply.