55PACKARD Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I just picked my car up from the guy doing my brakes..By the way he rebuilt the complete tredal vac system booster and master cylinder adjusted my brakes flushed the whole brake system the car stops on a dime and can crush it <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but seriously it stops a million times better now..Anyway i asked him to look at how i can get my car lower all the way around he came up with this idea i guess its kinda like the adjustabe T-LINKS i guess..He wants to cut away the orginal t -links and weld in a adjustabe cam or bar of some sort so i can lower the car almost like a chrysler he said is this possible..He also said it might be possible to get it about 4 inches lower does this sound doable?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Without more info on the technical details, can't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 Well from what i know he wants to get rid of the t links and weld in some sort of boxed frame where the t-links sits and either weld in the chrysler part or make a threaded rod type of adjustment i think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac59 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Hmm. I suspect advice on custom type stuff on a Packard will be hard to come by, I asked someone for info on getting a Packard engine freed up and mentioned I thought I'd stick it in a Model A hot rod, for something totally different, rather than see the motor sit and rot, and haven't heard back yet.I do agree these year Packards look a little high, especially compared to other makes. It may be because underneath they share construction back to the '49's, if I remember correctly. But either way, lowering won't hurt the appearance any.Best thing you can do here is compare the Packard setup to the Chrysler - but it seems like these used two long X-shape torsion bars where the Chrysler has them in front and leafs in the back. Have yet to come across a 55-56 Packard on it's side or top to look it over, although if my collector friend finishes parting out this car with the bad frame I may get a good look. You can weld anything you want to, so long as you're not welding to the actual bars - I would think that heating them would be like heating conventional springs, and damage their 'springiness' changing the rate etc. -Two more things to consider with this is how it will affect the front end geometry and ride of the car afterwards.I don't think it would hurt the looks of one of these any to section about 4" out of the middle of it, vertically. It might start to look like the prototype '57 they built, actually, which would be the idea behind doing it - if I were going the custom route on one I'd start with photos of styling clays for the never-built pure Packard '57-'58 cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well from what i know he wants to get rid of the t links and weld in some sort of boxed frame where the t-links sits and either weld in the chrysler part or make a threaded rod type of adjustment i think.... </div></div>Why get rid of the T-L links when you can just make them adjustable?The Chrysler front Torsion bars were indeed adjustable, but were connected to the frame. This is completely different than the Packard T-L. I'd say that he doesn't understand the Packard T-L suspension and is just guessing.Even with adjustable front links lowering the whole car, you'll quickly run out of suspension travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Craig, the whole thing can be lowered neatly if you just take a torch and cut the main torsion bars just behind the rubber bushing located about mid-point of the main bars. The car will sit much lower without the need of additional welding or machine work <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It will also lower the front and rear at the same time.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Craig, the whole thing can be lowered neatly if you just take a torch and cut the main torsion bars just behind the rubber bushing located about mid-point of the main bars. The car will sit much lower without the need of additional welding or machine work <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It will also lower the front and rear at the same time.</div></div>Hey Randy, you're right! What was I thinking? Oh, one minor problem: just don't drive it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Harlin Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 You are both right, so while the tourch is fired up, wouldnt cost that much more to cut the roof off & the lowering job would be completed. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Hey guys i know you dont like slight mods done to these cars but even you have to admit they sit a little high i mean its almost as tall as my Chevy ST10 which is a 4 x 4 so i just want to bring it down a couple inches...I also know you guys dont like these cars to have some custom accents done to them i look at it this way the car is saved and being used every day and Every one know its a Packard.... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 55Packard, Lighten up - we're having as much fun with you as you are asking us the same question lebenty-leben times. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Lebenty-leben is an actual figure used by Pogo in a Walt Kelly frame of mind. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Craig, Does Bob Berg in Colorado make a torsion-level torch (say that fast three times)? I know he makes the T/L removal tool and the headlight switch removal tool. He also made the gridwork used on the 56 Senior grilles. With the younger crowd starting to notice Packards there may be a market for the torch. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />I wonder if any of these guys modified a see-saw when they were kids by placing the board directly on the ground thereby eliminating the fulcrum and those pesky physics laws. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packard8 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 The TL suspension is a pretty sophisticated piece of engineering. Attempting to lower the car by modifying the components could throw the whole geometry (caster, camber, travel) out of whack.A much easier approach would be to buy some low profile tires, maybe 225/50/15?s that will mount on your existing wheels. It would cost a bunch less and be easily reversible if you want to go back to stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Tweaks rather than torches. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packard8 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Guy,Here is a link to a handy tire size comparison calculator:http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.htmlBy going from a 75 series to a 50 series, you will lower the car by about 3?.(No comment on how it would look, tho?. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />)Cheers,John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac59 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Swap it even for a non-torsion level Clipper (55 or early 56, system was made standard mid '56), and you'll have a car that can be lowered by conventional means.Really make 'em mad and section it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_PackardV8 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 lay down under the front of the car and look near the back of the brake drum on the lower control arm. You will see a large rubber cone POINTING UP. How much clearence is there between the tip of the cone and the frame member it bumps against???? NOW, about 2 inches inboard of the rubber cone is a verticle post about 6 inches long. This is the TL LINK. COUNT THE RINGS on the TL link and report back to us. You might need to clean the TL link to verify rings exist. By using a shorter TL link (less or no rings) will lower the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packard8 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Really make 'em mad and section it, too. </div></div>Chopped, channeled, shaved, slammed & frenched with a 40,000 watt stereo that will crumble brick walls at 50 feet?..Might as well bag it and make it hop like a Mexican Jumping Bean too!!?lol. (I think I can hear Mr. Edward McCauley spinning in his grave). <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Thanks guys for the advice... By the way im not here to annoy or antagonize anyone, I just like the look of the Clipper so i bought it with out doing that much reseacrh. I dont re-gret buying it i do love the looks it gets and the way it drives, but let me tell you there is alot to change on these cars they werent perfect...Oh lets see the oil pump,the see -saw action of the suspension the trans problems,,,i can go on -and on and on..So i think by me changing some things im not destroying a car im making it personal to ME....If you guys like it original thats fine but i like mine slighty customized..Im sure you wouldnt like what i have done to it but when its done it will be one of a kind something no one can say about and old ford,chevy,chrysler they all have been done before,,,but when was the last time youve seen a customized PACKARD...I dont think there is many...I know someone is going to say thats for a reason you dont see them.... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But i think it makes the car more my CAR...if you guys understand what i mean..Im sorry if i affended anyone or hurt someone's feelings but i never came here to do that i just wanted to ask some people that owned them some questions to get me thru the process of getting it on the road..Thanks all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip)...If you guys like it original thats fine but i like mine slighty customized..Im sure you wouldnt like what i have done to it but when its done it will be one of a kind something no one can say about and old ford,chevy,chrysler they all have been done before,,,but when was the last time youve seen a customized PACKARD...I dont think there is many...(snip)</div></div>I like my 55-56 Packards slightly customized, so I have no philosophical problem with what you're trying to do. I'm probably as familiar with the T-L and how to modify it as anybody on this forum. Here's the bottom line: [color:"red"]You can't lower a 55-56 T-L by four inches by modifying the suspension and still have a driveable vehicle. You could probably lower it by 1-in with adjustable or shortened front T-L links. You could probably lower it a couple of more inches by using smaller diameter tires. This ought to get you where you want see it. [color:"red"] BUT, no doubt you'll scrape the frame when going over tall speed bumps or the equivalent and then front suspension travel will bottom out prematurely when traversing bumps. There's no free lunch.Like you said, it's your car, do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac59 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Actually, sectioning might make the car look more sleek, update the early 50s shell to a more '57-58 era look.But while I now intend to look for some articles on this suspension system to learn juat how it works and see if I can understand the WHY of it and just why lowering won't work, I would suggest again one of two things - to either do as suggested and replace the entire system, or swap the system out for the non-torsion suspension. Which, may mean finding a 51-55 parts car with all the pieces. Or, you could swap for another complete car, they certainly are out there. There was that place in Georgia intent on crushing like 100 of them too, if they have anything left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 WRT to T-L design, et al, see: Torsion Level -- how did it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 In view of what I know of torsion bar suspension, which I might add is not as much as some of you do. To attempt to lower one of the cars with TS has to be a FOOL to attempt something like that. They are complicated enough for people who do work on them, let alone to let some backyard nitwit mechanic work on the suspension and in the process ruins the whole suspension, and the car in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Harlin Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Just one more to add about the high roof lines these Packards had. Back then & before, Gentlemen wore hats. Most adds pictured men wearing them. The high roofs enabled them to wear a hat if they wished. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 Well B.H. i never said i wanted 56 taillights first off...2 if i was going to sell the car do you know anyone who wants it???? Remember this is a 56 clipper custom constellation 2dr... So im sure it has some value, oh yeah it has 51,850 orignal miles too..I'm not into going to the full custom scene either but if i was going to i will be doing an air bag suspension and i will be doing a 2 to 3 inch roof chop to it maybe....I dont know yet...will see.I understand where your coming from about keeping the car pretty close to stock and ever one has the own opinion to this,I dont what to get anyone upset i write here to get some answers like i said but i dont need people thinking i dont know what im doing i just never seen a car set-up like this so at first its confusing but im starting to get it now. And i go to the jalopyjournal to get custom help i thought though maybe someone might have tried some of the things i want to do...Thanks G..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Ok I know what you meant now about the 56 tailights, i think im going to try putting the 56 bumper with my atock tail's to see what it looks like i really love the back bumper on those car i mean mines nice but i like the flowing lines of the 56 bumper better...As far as customizing i dont know how far im going to go on this car i can tell you this the more i drive it the more i do like the torsion ride suspension <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />i just wish it sat a little lower thats all..Im going to need to do a trans swap over the winter because i think mine is starting to go but thats another story Thanks for your honest opinion's and your replys i will be talking to you guys soon with some questions i'll think up <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But thanks again...G.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCraigH Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Someone actually did a section job on a 1956 Exec and turned it into a custom. This was discussed at length on this forum and most everyone puked at the result. [color:"red"] BUT, if you want to see what was done, contact: Rod and Custom Magazine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 "G"That's a nice, low-mileage car ya got there. Have you ever posted pics?I agree wholeheartedly with Brian--fiddle with the tires and/or wheels first. You know what looks great on these Packards? OVER-sized tires. Big (sidewall) tires actually make the car look more compact, and fill up those big wheel wells.Any time you take a torch, or a saw, or a drill, or even a hammer for the purpose of "modifying" something, you gotta ask yourself, "what am I really accomplishing, and can it ever be un-done if I want it to be?"Use the Rule of the Wrench: If you can modify it with a wrench or a screwdriver, go ahead.I think it's amazing how many little touches can make a car "yours." And also how satisfying it can be to change it back to original a few years later--providing you still CAN. If you chop the top, well, that's forever. And the roofline is NOT particularly high in relationship to the body on these cars. Look close, and you'll see. Lowering the roofline will make the sides look even deeper in comparison.Visual tricks, such as those described earlier, were used to help make these cars look lower and longer from the factory.BTW: One of these tricks is fender skirts. You got 'em?<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PACKARD Posted May 30, 2004 Author Share Posted May 30, 2004 Thanks guys..for the help i will look into my T/L links to see how many groves i have...I havent gotten around to putting pictures up i will post some soon i promise just dont get mad when you see them they might not be up to your liking.... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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