EFI & electronic knock control on Packards

[WCraigH]

I decided to start this new thread because the other thread on wide bore spacing evolved into EFI discussion. I want to bring up another modern technology which should be readily adaptable to the Packard V-8, to wit: knock (detonation) sensitive ignition retard.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s one of GM's "patches" short of full blown computer controlled EFI which we have had for the last 10 years was:

1) An acclerometer (early) or piezo (late) knock sensor physically attached to the engine.

2) An Electronic Spark Control (ESC) module which processed the output from the knock sensor and sent a signal to

3) A magnetically trigger, high energy ignition distributor which would fire the spark at a possibly delayed time as dictated by the ESC in response to detection of knock from that sensor.

Since this is an active, open loop knock sensitive system, it is far superior to the mechanical and vacuum advance arrangement on Packards and everything else until about 1978. It is not nearly as good as what is on the computer controlled EFI with all those (O2, knock, EGT, throttle pos, etc) sensors we have today.

I am currently figuring out how to use one of these setups on my Pontiac TurboFORCE project.

But, this should be a problem awaiting a solution for us Packard owners with high compression V-8s. We should be able to install some relatively simple kit which will retard the timing in response to (undetected) knock overriding the total advance from the mechanical and vacuum advance in the distributor.

If you only drive you Packard V-8 to local shows and back, you don't need this. If you drive your Packard V-8 at highway speeds, up and over hills in hot weather, then you might need this.

I'm putting one together for my Pontiac TurboFORCE project out of local auto parts store stock. No computers, no laptop tuning. Just bolt it in.

Anybody want to hear more?

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

i don't get any spark knock even running with timing set at 10 degrees. HOWEVER, i run 93 octane exclusively.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i don't get any spark knock even running with timing set at 10 degrees. HOWEVER, i run 93 octane exclusively.</div></div>

PackardV8: I believe what you're saying is that you get no audible knock. This either means that you are short in timing from maximum power/economy and evidenced by "insipient knock" or you are actually getting some knock that you cannot hear (since you are several feet from the engine and noise is masked by engine output, wind, tires, etc, but this knock would be audible to a piezo knock sensor physically attached to the engine.

[6219_Rules]

Craig, I would be interested in how one might apply this EFI technology to a 6 volt system like the one on my '47 Cadillac. How might this be done and would it be overtly visible? Is it something I would want to do? I do not know if I will show the car seriously but I might like to as well as touring with it. My hope is to make it as reliable a car as any. Gas and environment savings are all important, but with all due respect, the car is run little by comparison to modern everyday drivers. My main concern is efficiency and long range power. I have the early EFI in my '77 Eldorado so I was curious whether or not something similar could be added to the Cadillac without undue modifications.

Incidentally, the specs for 1947 called for nothing less than 80 grade octane. I can run 84 or 87 without a problem, although I do run 93 through it because I am concerned about wear and tear on the engine. I also add a non-lead lubricant periodically.

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Craig, I would be interested in how one might apply this EFI technology to a 6 volt system like the one on my '47 Cadillac. (snip) </div></div>

As far as I know, the 6V would eliminate the possibility of any EFI.

You could always convert to 12V. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[WCraigH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to drift off-topic, but I guess this hinges on the outcome of your adaptation of HEI to replace the old point-type distributor. (snip)</div></div>

Brian: It looks like PackardV8 usurped your idea and is off and running...

[bernardi]

Craig -

I would be interested in a knock sensor if you can rig an inexpensive one. I hope to install water injection to permit maximum spark advance. The two should work well together.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

be careful of the water injection. You can wind up with rusted valve stems and guides. It happened to ME.

[6219_Rules]

12V??? Why would anyone want 12V??! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, no thank you. I have the car restored (all electrical that is) for 6V. It works really well...until you leave the door open or the brake lights stay lit (a problem with the stop switch) and then the battery goes belly up after a few hours. Sigh.

Otherwise the 6V system works beautifully. I just wish it were a little hardier.

Oh well I will look into a better carb. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[6219_Rules]

That's a good point...I had a cheap cutoff on the positive terminal but it did not give me a good enough connection. But I would like to put a good one in. Do you have any you might suggest? Would they be available at the local NAPA or ADVANCE?

Many thanks!