95 Riviera question

[Guest sintid58]

My daughter just replaced her hvac fan a month ago and it quit working again. She took it back to the repair shop and they said water got into the motor and ruined it. Does anyone have any idea where the water is coming from, or where we should start looking. I am about fed up with this car first the radiatior split open then brake problems(very costly had to replace 2 computers and both front sensors) then this problem with the hvac fan and now the brakes arent working right again. THe mechanic says it is the right front sensor lead that comes off the sensor.

[BUICK RACER]

Sounds weird to me, my Mom has a '95 Riv, with 60K, that I was driving on Sept 6th when it turned 60K, with only a few electrical problems. I sent this link to my friend Dave, that worked for Buick Technical Assistance back then to see what he thinks, he will either email me or respond on this DF as I told him he should get on here and lend a hand. I have a couple of '95 Riv shop manuals that i just acquired, if you are interested, $75 plus shipping, they are still available through Helm.com for $120. Let me know if you are interested.

[NTX5467]

As Roberta mentioned, these cars are pretty dang trouble free. The only water that "should" be in the a/c case would be from condensate from the a/c condenser. The motor has a rubber cooling tube/duct that also goes to another part of the a/c case for cooling purposes. If, perchance, the water drain was plugged up (which they can be for various reasons), that would not let the normal condensate drain out. I would think that before it got high enough in the case to get to the guts of the motor, it would make "watery" noises that would raise a concern.

Otherwise, the only other source of water would be the cowl area air intake. I suspect there should be some drains in there too, which along with some baffling in there, have the expressed purpose of letting rain water drain out before it can get to the air intake for the hvac system. If the vehicle has the replaceable cabin air filters, if water goes through them, they should be wet. This would be a good place to trouble shoot the suspected place of entry for the moisture.

In all of the ABS equipped vehicles I've seen come through the dealership, I've never heard of the wheel speed sensors "coming out" of the hub. If they (the sensors and related wiring) are secured properly to the suspension pieces, there should be NO force on them at all. Plus, if they are made with the hub, they're secured in there with adhesive (I suspect) that would keep them nailed down tight enough to not let the clearance spec between the sensor and the tone wheel change. I have seen instances where the wires might chafe, some foreign object might contact and damage them, or the connectors might become degraded for some reason, but not "coming out".

Similarly, that composite radiator is an extremely troublefree unit also. GM has been using them since about '82 and those composite tanks don't cause problems, but they might be more prone to impact damage than a brass radiator.

Unfortunately, the things you mentioned are things I've just not seen happen very much. Others might have other observations.

As for the ABS brake systems, some of the ABS modules and such do wear out with time. They are not inexpensive either, unfortunately, but in many instances they are pretty troublefree too. Someone mentioned a while back that flushing the brake system on an ABS vehicle every couple of years would prolong the life of the valves and pressure modulation hardware. This makes sense as it's usually moisture in the brake fluid that starts the degrading process.

As noted, these are some unusual problems. Therefore, it might take a little more in-depth troubleshooting to find out what is causing them. Something more than just replacing parts and saying "It's fixed" when the root cause of the repeated failures would also need to be addressed too.

Hopefully, when everything's put back "right", then everything will be OK.

NTX5467

[Guest sintid58]

I replaced the wire that they said was bad and guess what, didnt change a thing. You start the car put it in gear, the abs pump runs the lights come on you can feel the brakes apply lightly and after doing this a few times the abs warining light stays on and the traction control light off light stays on. Thanks for the offer of the tech manuals Roberta but if I dont get this fixed soon (after thowing $1800 at the brakes) I am going to get rid of the car and cut our losses. Already looked at a 98 Mercury Mystique.

[NTX5467]

First, the ABS should not be applying the brakes by themselves. That's a given. I also suspect that if you read the fine print on the bottom of the repair order of the shop that did the work, you'll find a "shop warranty" that probably should be invoked, even if they are reluctant to do so. In general, if they didn't know what they were doing with that brake system or how to properly troubleshoot it, and just can't seem to fix it, then some adjustments probably need to be made by them OR let them make arrangements to send the car to someone/some other shop that knows how to do ABS brake troubleshooting/repairs as part of their shop warranty. I would hope they were using GM or ACDelco parts and not some auto supply generic brand stuff.

The only time I've seen brakes apply themselves happened to be on a Buick with ABS. A quick lube facility put the wrong fluid in the brake system as part of their "top off the fluid" activity with an oil change. As the customer was driving along, the car started slowing down from freeway speed all by itself. The foreign fluid was making the rubber seals and such swell and was exerting enough fluid pressure on the brake caliper pistons to slow the car from freeway speeds to a complete stop.

The brake system computer will store trouble codes just as the engine computer will. I suspect your vehicle is new enough to have that capability, but I don't know for sure. If it does, then those codes need to be found and addressed.

On the surface, if the ABS pump is running and the brakes are lightly applying themselves, then the traction control portion of the computer is getting some bad wheel speed sensor information, thinking there is slight wheel spin and is applying the brake to slow the spinning wheel. It's probably the self-diagnosis portion of the computer that is turning on the lights too, I suspect.

Send me an email with details of what has been replaced, please. That sounds like a lot of money for just ABS brake parts, but I might be wrong.

For example, when the ABS motor runs all the time on a late model Chevy pickup and turns on the ABS light, you just put on a new ABS motor (was about $800.00 last time I sold one) and everything's fixed. I know the Riviera system has different parts, which is why I'd like to see the list of what has been replaced on the vehicle.

That Mystique you're looking at might have a Mercury nameplate, but it's not a real Mercury. Seems like it's really a Mazda in drag. Mazdas aren't cheap to fix either, from our experiences. Why not one of the rear wheel drive Cougars?

Thanks,

NTX5467

[Guest sintid58]

The reason the brakes apply lightly is that the traction control is telling the computer that one of the wheels is slipping. According to all I have read about traction control that is one of the first reactions the computer takes to a slipping wheel. At least that is what I am thinking. I have been taking the car to a local garage where the owner had been a mechanic at a Buick shop for 15 years. I took it to another shop and found out the new mechanic worked with the first guy and knows him. He said that the first guy is famous for throwing parts at cars to fix them and not actually diagnosing the problem. Should get an answer today about what the new guy thinks is wrong. We will see. A body shop friend worked on the fan motor and when he replaced the old(new) motor there was no sign of water in the motor. He ran the car for 2 hours with the A/C on and ran a garden hose over the front of the car and no water was apparent in the fan area. He also checked all the drain holes and found none plugged. We are thinking the fan motor was defective and are going to take it back to where it was purchased.

[NTX5467]

Thanks for that update! Hope things get straightened out, too!

NTX5467

[Guest sintid58]

Well here it is, the mechanic I took the car to found a strand of cord from a fan belt wrapt around the wire going to the right wheel speed sensor so tight it had shorted it out. He then put on a used computer and drove the car nearly 50 miles checking it out. It worked perfectly, just before my daughter got to his home to pick up the car he started it and tried it again. It did the same thing it had always been doing. He let her take the car and didn't charge her for the work but wants it back. I had a 1987 Riviera that I worked on for 2 years and as soon as I got one thing fixed something else would go wrong, never could get the wipers to work right and couldn't get the new switch I needed. I think I am done with Riviera's but wish I could get my daughter fixed. It is a beautiful car and she loves it. My wife and I had talked about buying one for ourselves but these two lemons are leaving a very bad taste in our mouths.