air tools

[Guest]

ok, tool question again. i'm looking for a good, but reasonably priced, set of air tools. i'm debating between craftsman, devilbiss, cambell hausfield, and husky. they all seem pretty much comparable both with features and in price (craftsman is often more expensive than the others, but i can get their stuff on sale right now). anyone got any suggestions? i'm looking for an orbital sander (or whatever would be best - jitterbug, etc), an automotive (or hvlp, or whatever is best for auto painting) paint gun, and an impact wrench. i'll proably get a hammer and eventually a die grinder, but these aren't as important to me right now. any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. you all really are a great resource for one getting started on this hobby. i'm looking forward to getting cracking on my 225.<P>thanks, jon

[86 2dr.ltd]

Well I guess you get what you pay for but I have gotten buy just fine with a Campbell Hausfield DA (dual action)sander.Dont buy a cheap paint gun.Most all of my other stuff is C H.My impact wrench is not really powerfull but it does the job for most things.<P>A good air compressor is the root of the air tool game.<P>Good luck!

[Guest oldtimer]

the way i look at it is, if you don't use them every day (like at work) the the cheap stuff will work good. most of the air tools you mentioned are made in the same place dispite the names. i have a cambell hausfield da sander and used it at night with a crappy water trap and it still works good. the key things on air tools are you MUST oil them before use, have a GOOD water trap (i paid $50 for one finally) and a GOOD air compressor (5-6 hp with at least 60 gal tank). because body air tools take ALOT of air to run, it will take 2 to 3 times as long to sand if you have a small tank. most of the time is spent waiting for the tank to refill. if you want to cut with the air die grinder, i would think again (that takes the most air to run). what i use to cut is a makita 4" angle grinder with a metal cutting wheel and you can get the grinder wheel to grind welds also (both at home depot) it takes a lot to stop that makita so make sure to use gloves and hold on TIGHT. i have a cheaper gravity feed spray gun (approx. $80) from harbor frieght tools and it works great (2 cars and 1 bike sprayed). just make sure the gun is CLEAN before you put it away.

[YellowLark]

<BR>If you are going to do any kind of paint or sandblasting work, you will need to run iron pipes across the room to trap the moisture. A simple attached water trap didn't work for me. The TIP company in Ohio has a catalog of sandblasting equipment and it shows a diagram of how to arrange metal plumbing pipes across the walls and ceiling to trap the moisture. You won't be happy until you deal with this.<P>------------------<BR>

[Guest]

ok, thanks for your help so far - it sounds like there's no real, important difference between the tools.<P>here's my situation: i have a 6 HP compressor with a 30 gallon tank, it delivers 8.6 cf/min at 40 and 6.4 at 90, which i figured would be ok for the most part (i could have been wrong).<P>in looking at the different sanders out there, i have found some (CH mostly) which require 10-12 cfm at 90 psi. on the other hand i have seen some (craftsman, husky, and devilbiss) which require only int he range of 4-5. they all have the same no load speed (10,000 rpm), but is torque proportional to n load speed? or is it proportional to cfm or is it proportional to neither? essentially, will the orbital or dual action sanders that only require 4-5 cfm do the trick?<P>by the by, i assume my compressor will allow me to run such a sander virtually uninterrupted, no? i would think it compresses at a higher rate than that, but i could again be wrong.<P>one more thing - should i oil my tools every time i use them or should i get an automatic oiler to put in my air line?<P>thanks all,<BR>jon

[Guest oldtimer]

you might need more of a water trap system it depends where your at, here in california its not that damp. with the air compressor you have you should see some lag with a da sander. when i was sanding my car at work with a 6hp 80gal compressor and i had to wait sometimes after constant use. you should oil daily especially if your in a damper climate.<p>[This message has been edited by oldtimer (edited 04-11-2001).]

[Guest]

i use mostly CH stuff. craftsman actually is often the same tool, with a different lable, so i buy those on sale if i can get them.<P>oldtimer is right. scrap the air-power die grinder or cutter. i bought a 4 1/2 inch craftsman angle grinder (factory refurb) and chucked my small air cutter in the trash <P>get an electric die-grinder as well, and you will be all set.<P>i only use my compressor for filling tires, spraying paint, and running impact wrench or hammer.<P>allan

[Guest]

I use air tools to make a living and most of these posts are very true. The key is to treat the cheap tool well! Oil it daily forget about the in-line oiler and make sure it's free from water. <P>The compresser you have will need a LOT of rest while sanding and painting, both require huge volumes of air. <P>The paint gun that requires the least amount of air is also the most expinsive, a Platinum by Sharpe at $450.00 needs only 8.2 CFM most HVLP guns you will find need 12 or more. A non-HVLP would be a better choice. The HV in HVLP stands for High VOLUME remember. <P>My last bit.....I have never said to my self..."Damn I wish I would have bought the Cheap tool". <P><P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[Guest John Chapman]

Anyone have experience or advice for those of us with small portables about using auxilliary tanks to extend usable air time?<P>Or would the money be better spent on higher compressor capacity?<P>------------------<BR>John Chapman<BR>BCA 35894<BR>1965 Skylark Convertible (Some Assembly Required)<BR> jmchapman@aol.com

[Guest]

John, they really don't help you very much, my 60 gallon tank is emptied in short order with an air sander or HVLP gun. You have to have the pump to back it up. <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[Guest]

does anyone know about ampro? i saw an hvlp spray gun made by them for about $80 that only consumes 7-9 cfm. but they're the brand carried by advance autoparts, so i don't know.<P>thanks again,<BR>jon

[Guest]

The rock bottom for AMerican made guns is $150.00 so first off we know it is off shore and I do't mean German! Some of these cheapie guns actually work pretty good, being they copied a well known brand to the tee to make it. But I have no experiance with this one, sounds a bit to hopefull to be true.<P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[Guest John Chapman]

Thanks, Brian...<P>Somehow, I'd figured that'd be about the situation. I'll just keep going and see how much I really use the compressor setup.<P>Cheers,<BR>John

[Guest]

Hey John, a 60 gallon 6 HP compresser is now about $400.00. It will be the best money you ever spent on a tool. I Just got onw my self after fighting with a little "beach ball filler" and I ame VERY happy with it. <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[Guest John Chapman]

Brian,<P>$400? Brand, model and vendor, please.<BR>110V or 220V?<BR>My little beach ball filler was about $280 from Sears, and still looks brand new... might not lose much at a garage sale.<P>John

[Guest oldtimer]

i got my cambell hausfield compressor from home depot for $398 2 or 3 years ago ( i think they're at $450 to $490 now). its a single phase 5hp 60 gal. 220v (seems like 220v tools are cheaper).

[Guest]

John, Oldtimer is on the mark, I HATE "Home Depot" but you can't peat the prices on these compressers. <BR>As far as selling your beach ball filler....I couldn't sell mine in an ad in the paper for $100.00. I was glad I didn't because I was able to donate it to a guy in a Street rod club I am in who didn't have one and is building a "no-Buck" car. He has a 1932 Ford truck with exactly $33.00 in it! With buying and selling and swapping parts...$33.00. Yes you can build a car for cheap. <BR><P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[Guest]

I've been doing body work for over 20 years. I don't own a DA, their a thing of the past. Get a orbital sander. Harbor Freight has one for 69.00 that I bought for one of my helpers, she use's it daily. She has a C/H Dual action sander that she refuses to use any more. A Ingersoll-rand 4151 is real good for the money. A lot of your moisture problems come from running that small compresser to hard. If your doing body work part time a 5hp 60 gal. will probable work. You'll have to remember that they have duty cycles. If you run a line from your compresser to a 30 gal tank, then a water trap it will give the air time to cool down ,the water will settle in the 30 gal tank and you can drain it . Maybe this will help a little.

[Guest]

HWY 5, you are right the "palm sander" is the way to go. The first time I used mine I couldn't believe how you could actual "block" with it, it is a super tool and not so noisy and tiresome, but there still are uses for my good old N/D "DA", it is much more aggressive than an orbital for fast cutting and the grinder mode is still my method for finishing up my metal finish work. Or for metal finishing for chrome. <P>------------------<BR>buickfam@aol.com<BR>Life long Buick Fan.<BR>1965 Skylark H/T<BR>1965 Gran Sport Convertible<BR>1948 Chevy Pickup with 401 Buick.<BR>"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[Guest]

here's one more question - can't promise it'll be the last:<P>with sanders (i'm looking at DA sanders) what determines the torque? craftsman and husky make da sanders that consume only 4 cfm whereas cambell hausfield (And i think devilbiss) da sanders consume 13 cfm. i'll probably get the craftsman or husky one because of the size of my compressor, but will the others have better torquing? is torque proprtional to air consumption? i assume its not proportional to free rotating speed (all of them have the same free speed)<P>thanks again,<BR>jon

[Guest Schieber]

Hey everybody! Just wanted to chime in here. I have worked in the air tool industry for the past six years and I have a few (hopefully) helpful points to contribute to the discussion above:

PSI - First and foremost you need to make sure that the compressor is actually giving you 90 psi of pressure while the tool is running not while at rest. If you only set the dial to 90 psi watch it drop when you activate the tool. Set it a little high with the expectation of the pressure dropping 20 psi or so during use. Keep in mind that almost all air tools are designed to be used at 90 psi so if you're not feeding them 90 you're not realizing the tools full potential.

Moisture & Lubrication - Regarding moisture in the lines, aside from the obvious recommendation to drain your compressor tank often, you might want to consider an inline air treatment system known as a filter, regulator, lubricator combo. Not only do these units dry the air, but they also clean and lubricate it which all but guarantees longer life for your air tool. They come in 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 inch NPT sizes and are also modular. If space is an issue go with the "piggy back" model which stacks the regulator on top of the filter. You can also select self draining models and just have the accumulated water drain out of a tube into a bucket.

Sanders - As the gentleman above mentioned the DA (dual action sander) is a thing of the past. The ROS (random orbital sander) has replaced the DA and delivers superior performance. When choosing an air tool keep in mind that the old adage of "you get what for you pay for" truly does apply. In the industry we separate the tools into "maintenance grade" and "production grade." The maintenance grade tools come from Asia while the production tools are built right here at home in the USA. An excellent maintenance grade tool is the Ingersoll Rand 4151, however with these types of tool, when they break you pretty much just have to throw them away. The main benefit of the production grade tools is that you can rebuild them with a simple kit offered by the manufacturer Ingersoll Rand, CH, etc... For an awesome quality sander that should last you a lifetime check out the cyclone series by Ingersoll Rand. For the extra $40 bucks you might as well go for the goods! Additionally, with the production grade sanders you can choose either a 3/16" orbit or 3/32" orbit depending on if you are doing rough or finish work. They also come in either aluminum or composite bodies depending on your preference.

Well that's all I have, if you have any questions feel free to email me at mark@intlairtool.com or via my contact page. Thanks, MWS.