Derek56 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I have a 56 buick special with manual gearbox i have an issue with gearbox oil leaking from the front of the gearbox where it bolts to the bell housing. recently the clutch was replaced as it had become contaminated with oil due to the weep hole being siliconed up but there didn’t seem to be any front seal to the gearbox that could be replaced and didn’t think the leak would be so bad as it is when it was put back together as it is throwing out a lot of oil every time it’s driven ( it has not been over filled) . Photos show the amount of oil after a 10 mile drive that has leaked. Has anyone else had the same issue and how did you overcome this. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The input shaft requires a seal. Remove the transmission and see if there is groove in the shaft by the bearing and slinger. If so, a ring seal goes there. If not, you will need to make a seal to seat inside the oil sling. I have run into both types. One being a 54 trans and the other a 55. I have pictures if you would like. Also, if you overfill some oil will travel up the throw out bearing support getting into clutch. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) I went ahead and posted the picture. Depending on the input shaft your manual has there is either a groove in the shaft for a seal or no groove at all(1955 manual and probably later years). In this picture you will see a black rubber ring type seal( I made this rubber seal) surrounding the groove on the shaft. However, use a cork ring seal (these can be gotten at Northwest Transmissions and I believe OldBuickParts.com) for the groove area on the shaft. Now, if you do not have the groove for the seal in the shaft(1954 3 speed) you will need to create a seal to be placed inside of the oil sling. Looking at my picture you will see a cork seal behind behind the ring seal and it just fits inside of the oil sling. As much as we hope these do not leak there is always a drip every now and then. The one drip does not cause an contamination of the clutch plate. Dumping of oil certainly ruins the clutch disc. I recommend you get a new one when sorting out the new seal. And, do not overfill the manual. If you do the oil will find it's way out of the clutch release bearing support when you park the Buick. Which reminds me, did you get the gasket and compression ring that sits behind the clutch release bearing support? Edited October 31, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Here is another thread that will help you visualize what you need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 20 hours ago, avgwarhawk said: The input shaft requires a seal. Remove the transmission and see if there is groove in the shaft by the bearing and slinger. If so, a ring seal goes there. If not, you will need to make a seal to seat inside the oil sling. I have run into both types. One being a 54 trans and the other a 55. I have pictures if you would like. Also, if you overfill some oil will travel up the throw out bearing support getting into clutch. Nice one many thanks I will pass this on to the garage that did the clutch see what the say 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Derek56 said: Nice one many thanks I will pass this on to the garage that did the clutch see what the say 👍 Let me know. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 2:29 PM, avgwarhawk said: Let me know. Thanks! I have spoken to the garage that fitted the clutch and they dont remember seeing a cork seal or a rubber on the shaft. Going to pop it on their ramp next week and check oil levels etc had a look at northwest and old buick sites but can’t find cork or rubber listed for the 56 any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derek56 said: I have spoken to the garage that fitted the clutch and they dont remember seeing a cork seal or a rubber on the shaft. Going to pop it on their ramp next week and check oil levels etc had a look at northwest and old buick sites but can’t find cork or rubber listed for the 56 any ideas? The clutch is now contaminated. Needs to come out anyway. There is a seal for sure. It is shown in every exploded diagram of these manuals. Call NW Transmissions.937-442-2811 Have the body and tail case numbers handy. When my input shaft seal had basically perished the gear oil dumped out of the nose and contaminated the clutch. Not until a new seal was made by me did the issue stop. Later on I discovered that the O-ring cork seal is available. Edited November 13, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 This is my 54 transmission. The seal on the shaft just ahead of the oil sling is visible. It sits in a groove. Later years the groove is not present but the seal went closer to the base of the input shaft. The inside of my bell housing is covered in oil with the failing seal. The transmission would make a puddle just like yours. New seal installed. Problem solved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 Thanks for that to be honest the guy who did it was not aware nor was I I supplied all the parts and didn’t know about this bit i appreciate your help I will email them as I’m in the uk think it will be easier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Derek56 said: Thanks for that to be honest the guy who did it was not aware nor was I I supplied all the parts and didn’t know about this bit i appreciate your help I will email them as I’m in the uk think it will be easier Also, check to see if he recalls the casket that sits between the bell housing and clutch throw-out bearing support. There is also a compression ring that sits behind the throw out bearing support. These can be gotten at NW Transmissions. I learned the hard way as well. This is from NW transmissions: Edited November 13, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) Also have him check this link for the 56 manual. The first picture of the clutch set up has an arrow pointing to the input shaft base by the slinger where the seal is to be intalled. . The cork seal goes here. When I installed mine I added some bearing grease to help it settle in when first ran. https://www.hometownbuick.com/1956-buick-clutch/ Edited November 13, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 I took the photos you posted and he said he didn’t remember seeing them and we came to the conclusion that is why they had siliconed sealed the gearbox to the bell housing and filled the weep hole with it forcing the oil into the clutch place and bell housing. Can’t really blame the garage as he had never seen one before and he did ask me to supply all the gaskets etc. appreciate your help Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Derek56 said: I took the photos you posted and he said he didn’t remember seeing them and we came to the conclusion that is why they had siliconed sealed the gearbox to the bell housing and filled the weep hole with it forcing the oil into the clutch place and bell housing. Can’t really blame the garage as he had never seen one before and he did ask me to supply all the gaskets etc. appreciate your help Many thanks I used just a fine layer of silicone sealant to hold the gasket between the bell housing and gearbox. The gobs of sealant as seen on my gearbox created issues well. Kinds of stinks to have to do the job over but I can tell you from experiencing just that...it went a heck of a lot faster! Let us know how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 I will do many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) On 11/13/2019 at 9:37 PM, avgwarhawk said: I used just a fine layer of silicone sealant to hold the gasket between the bell housing and gearbox. The gobs of sealant as seen on my gearbox created issues well. Kinds of stinks to have to do the job over but I can tell you from experiencing just that...it went a heck of a lot faster! Let us know how it works out. Hi avgwarhawk i have just received the oil throw cork gasket washer spring clip and gearbox gasket from north west transmission as you recommended will update you when the work starts thanks for your advice 👍 Edited January 30, 2020 by Derek56 Mistakes (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 The input shaft at the base by the oil sling, is there a groove in the input shaft? If so, this is were the O-ring cork gasket is placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 I dont know yet will come back to you when its out and let you know fingers crossed 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Derek56 said: I dont know yet will come back to you when its out and let you know fingers crossed 👍 If there is no groove in the input shaft you will still be ok. I have a 55 transmission with an input shaft that has no groove. I cut a circular gasket to fit inside the the oil sling. Just used a sheet of cork and double it up for some thickness. It worked quite well. Not a drip. This area is not a high pressure type situation. A simple gasket will work. Also, what oil weight was used? The thicker gear oil works best from my experience. I have no doubt you will get it sorted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 We used the oil that was on the home town buick details quite thick i think i have a sheet of 6mm cork i ordered just in case i had to make one. fingers crossed i can get it into the workshop soon and they can get it apart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 1:58 PM, avgwarhawk said: The input shaft at the base by the oil sling, is there a groove in the input shaft? If so, this is were the O-ring cork gasket is placed. Hi gear box is finally out this is what the garage sent me any ideas new bearing maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Do not plug the holes and reinstall. Oil is supposed to go through the bearing to lubricate. The clutch throw out bearing support has a channel notched to channel the oil back to the sump through the hole. The oil sling on the shaft slings oil back away from the input shaft. There needs to be a O-ring seal installed on the input shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) Please give me tonight to take pictures of my extra transmission and throw out bearing support. I will take pictures of how assembly should look. Another items that can stop a lot of this is a solid input shaft bearing. I believe Old Buick Parts has one. Edited April 2, 2020 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 minute ago, avgwarhawk said: Please give me tonight to take pictures of my extra transmission and throw out bearing support. I will take pictures of how assembly should look. I have a new seal is this correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Derek56 said: I have a new seal is this correct Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 Thanks will pass on info to the garage appreciate the assistance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 We will start here. The red arrow is the input shaft oil sling(metal) you received in the mail . The red rectangular box is the round cork seal you received in the mail. Note the position of the cork seal on the input shaft. There is a groove here where the seal will sit. IF the groove is not there(as it as on my 55 manual) push the cork seal all the way to the base of the shaft where the metal oil slinger is located. It will serve the same purpose in this position. I will post pictures tonight or tomorrow that will detail the throw out bearing support, drain and specifically a clip that must be installed behind the throw out support bearing. That is also in the small kit you received in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 My shaft has a rubber seal on it but no cork ive asked for a side on photo tomorrow to show you thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Derek56 said: My shaft has a rubber seal on it but no cork ive asked for a side on photo tomorrow to show you thanks Sounds good. Interesting the rubber seal is there but it is leaking. With that said, I'm thinking the real issue may be the compression ring that goes behind the throw out bearing support and is sandwiched between the bell housing and the transmission. Without that compression ring oil can flow past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 Ive sent your reply’s to Dave whos doing the work thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 He said the compression ring is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Derek56 said: He said the compression ring is there Was it installed when the he put the transmission back in originally or he now has the ring now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 It was on the car originally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 41 minutes ago, Derek56 said: It was on the car originally Ok, got it. I will take pictures of my assorted parts and how I assembled each that resulted in good sealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek56 Posted April 2, 2020 Author Share Posted April 2, 2020 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) This is the throw out bearing support that butts up against the transmission housing. The red arrows are at the drain back for the oil that passes through the bearing as your mechanic noted. There is only one position this support can be mounted as the bell housing as a small indentation for the drain back channel to fit. I'm sure you mechanic noted this. Edited April 2, 2020 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 If your mechanic would like but not really necessary, he can cut a gasket (see my blue gasket in the picture) or simply apply some RTV forma-gasket for some extra leak proofing this area of the throw out bearing support. Do not use much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) This piece is very important. You said your mechanic has one. You may want to replace it as it does provide some spring action and helps keep the throw out bearing support steady. This is sandwiched between the throw out bearing support and the face of the transmission. Without this all is lost. Note the piece is not flat but has a bend around the circumference. This allows the part to be compressed but allows some movement when working the clutch. Here it is behind the support of the throw out bearing and will be sandwiched between the bell housing and transmission. How it should go together. Edited April 2, 2020 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) This is how to position this compression ring so oil that is passing through the input shaft bearing to lubricate can drain back into the sump in the transmission. Even if the ring closes some once installed inside the bell housing(there should be a groove. Will need to close the ring and tap in behind the throw out bearing support), there is enough clearance to allow drainage of oil back into the transmission. This is not a high pressure situation like a automatic transmission. It is simply plugging areas that oil can find a way out but also giving the oil a place to go. Edited April 3, 2020 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Here is the cork seal tucked away inside the metal oil sling. If your oil sling looks ok then leave it. If your mechanic decides to replace it with the new one in your kit it is fairly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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