Pontiac Oakland Cabriolet history

[Oldbart]

I would like to ask if anyone knows the correct history of the Pontiac Oakland Cabriolet. Some of what I have read seems to be wrong. I read that the Oakland cabriolet debuts in 1928, then Pontiac has a model in 29 the same year they both get the big 6, then the crash and cabriolets are dropped in 29, later Oakland is dropped and Pontiac survives. Then I see cabriolets for sale that are 30’s, very confusing and does anyone know the number of cabriolets built?

 Thanks 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Oldbart (see edit history)

[Guest]

There are no "Cabriolets" listed in any of my literature for Pontiac or Oakland.  The only references to "Cabriolet"  are in the advertisements for "The Cabriolet, Body by Fisher" in the 1929 Ads that I have (same ones as you have show.  Both Oakland (style number 8810)and Pontiac (style number 8960) list a "Convertible Coupe"  which looks like a Cabriolet in 1929.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Guest (see edit history)

[PONTIAC1953]

4 hours ago, Tinindian said:

Firstly there is no such thing as a PONTIAC OAKLAND or an OAKLAND PONTIAC.  The car that was to become "Pontiac" was designed by Chevrolet and then offered to both Oldsmobile and Oakland to do the final development.  Both declined because the car could not be built within the cost.  Finally it was give to Oakland as Chevrolet was exclusively OHV.  The "New Pontiac Big Six" in Series 6-29 and continued in Series 6-29A and then updated as "The New Series Pontiac Big Six"  engines were exclusively Pontiac and had nothing to do with Oakland.  Both of these Series had hotchkiss drive and Oakland rear axles because the torque tube rear ends from Chevrolet were not strong enough.

There are no "Cabriolets" listed in any of my literature for Pontia or Oakland.  The only references to "Cabriolet"  are in the advertisements for "The Cabriolet, Body by Fisher" in the 1929 Ads that I have (same ones as you have show.  Both Oakland (style number 8810)and Pontiac (style number 8960) list a "Convertible Coupe"  which looks like a Cabriolet in 1929.

 

Well the Pontiac was not designed by Chevrolet, Alfred P. Sloan put the Pontiac development into motion, Fisher body would make the bodies to be SHARED with Chevy, and oldsmobile engineers helped with the design of the L head six cylinder engine. From 1926 to 1932 the Pontiac was Oakland's companion car, the division was renamed the Pontiac motor division in late 1932.

 

[Guest]

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Edited July 31, 2019 by Guest (see edit history)

[PONTIAC1953]

8 hours ago, Tinindian said:

The original drawings were done by Chevrolet at the direction of A.P. Sloan and his advisors. Then it was offered to Oldsmobile and Oakland to complete the design work which they declined.

Would like to know where you learned this story from, I have studied the Pontiac history for 46 years, have never seen this story in all the books I have or have read.

[PONTIAC1953]

With Oldsmobile already having the Viking, it makes no sense that they were also offered the Pontiac. 

[Oldbart]

17 hours ago, Tinindian said:

Firstly there is no such thing as a PONTIAC OAKLAND or an OAKLAND PONTIAC.  The car that was to become "Pontiac" was designed by Chevrolet and then offered to both Oldsmobile and Oakland to do the final development.  Both declined because the car could not be built within the cost.  Finally it was give to Oakland as Chevrolet was exclusively OHV.  The "New Pontiac Big Six" in Series 6-29 and continued in Series 6-29A and then updated as "The New Series Pontiac Big Six"  engines were exclusively Pontiac and had nothing to do with Oakland.  Both of these Series had hotchkiss drive and Oakland rear axles because the torque tube rear ends from Chevrolet were not strong enough.

There are no "Cabriolets" listed in any of my literature for Pontia or Oakland.  The only references to "Cabriolet"  are in the advertisements for "The Cabriolet, Body by Fisher" in the 1929 Ads that I have (same ones as you have show.  Both Oakland (style number 8810)and Pontiac (style number 8960) list a "Convertible Coupe"  which looks like a Cabriolet in 1929.

 

 

Firstly try not to read too much into it or assume, I missed a break, so what I meant to type was Pontiac/Oakland Cabriolet, as the brands were related, Oakland came first and GM brought in the Pontiac name to fill price gaps, in 26, and to their surprise the Pontiac priced above Chevrolet but below Oakland a tad but with Oakland features sold quite well, in fact by 29, GM sold 163,000 more Pontiacs than Oaklands. By 31 GM decided to drop Oakland and keep Pontiac.

 

In the 20's all the GM divisions were starting companion make programs to fill price gaps between models, so it went Chevrolet (cheapest) then Oakland but a huge gap was there, the Pontiac was priced in that gap, Oldsmobile got the Viking, Buick got the Marquette and Cadillac got the LaSalle, none of the companion cars survived the depression BUT Pontiac not only did it took over the Oakland slot and Oakland was dropped. 

 

My question was directed soley at the Cabriolet history because what is written makes no sense to what I see in ads or being sold, one site claimed the Cabriolet was a one year 29 model and was dropped half way through 29 due to the depression, I see ads for Oakland and Pontiac Cabriolets that are before and after that year. I have not not been able to find anything definitive about the Cabriolet model, it's build numbers, it's span of years, etc. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, pontiac1953 said:

With Oldsmobile already having the Viking, it makes no sense that they were also offered the Pontiac.

Viking was only 1929-31.  Pontiac was the first "companion car" by GM beating out both LaSalle and Viking.

[PONTIAC1953]

5 minutes ago, Tinindian said:

Viking was only 1929-31.  Pontiac was the first "companion car" by GM beating out both LaSalle and Viking.

Yes, but in 1926 the Viking probably was already on oldsmobile's engineers drawing board. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, pontiac1953 said:

Yes, but in 1926 the Viking probably was already on oldsmobile's engineers drawing board. 

"In 1925, rumors spread of a new companion car to the Oakland line.  Ben H. Anibal, who had been chief engineer  for Cadillac, was engaged  by General Manager A. R. (Al) Glancy to design a completely new light, six cylinder car."  from the "standard catalogue of Pontiac" by Gunnell and Kowalke.

[Oldbart]

16 hours ago, pontiac1953 said:

 

 

 

plus the two ads I show above from 1929 clearly indicate below the pictures what they are, under each Oakland and Pontiac it states

The Cabriolet    Body by Fisher 

 

so even though you state no literature you have indicate a Cabriolet model, why would the ads call them that??  it just adds to the mystery eh?

[Guest]

PM sent. 

[Oldbart]

I guess my answer is no one knows the history or has any documentation about it.

[PONTIAC1953]

i would suggest you get a copy of 75 years of pontiac oakland, written by john gunnell, and the cabriolet wasn't dropped after 1929, the last year was 1932.

[Guest]

A compilation from Books in my library.

 

April 1, 1934 Master parts list Pontiac and Oakland Chassis parts

shows a cabriolet for Oakland in 1931 O/8 and for Pontiac in 1931 and 1932 P/6 and P/8

 

1925-1940 Master Parts Book Pontiac and Oakland Chassis parts.

shows no cabriolet for any year but does show Convertible Coupe for 1931 P/6 and O/8,

1932 P/6, P/8, 1933 P/8, 1934 P/8, 1935 P/6 and P/8, 1936 P/6 and P/8 in both Master and Deluxe and the same for 1937-1940.

 

1934 Pontiac and Oakland Body Parts

Does not list a cabriolet from 1926-1934

Does list Convertible coupe in all places where the Chassis parts book lists a Cabriolet.

 

“A History of General Motors” by Timothy Jacobs shows a picture of a 1934 Cabriolet.

 

“Identification guide Pontiac 1926-1966” by Thomas Bonsall

Shows a Sport Cabriolet in 1928, a Convertible Cabriolet in 1929, a Convertible Coupe in 1931,

a V-8 and a Six Convertible Coupe in 1932, a Convertible Coupe in 1933, a Cabriolet in 1934,

a De Luxe Six and a De Lux eight Cabriolet in 1935, 1936 and 1937, an Eight and a Six Cabriolet in 1938 and 1940.

“standard catalog of PONTIAC 1926-1995”

Shows a convertible cabriolet and lists a Cabriolet Convertible 2/4P 8960 in 1929, lists a Convertible Coupe 2/4P 31318 in 1931, shows a V-8 Convertible Coupe 2/4P 32368 and lists a Convertible Coupe 2/4P 32318 for 1932, lists a Convertible Coupe 2/4P 33318 for 1933, lists a Cabriolet 2/4P 34318 for 1934, lists and shows a Six Cabriolet 2/4P 2167AA in 1935, shows a six cabriolet and lists Cabriolet 2/4P 6BB, 2/4P 6BA and 2/4P 8BA in 1936, Shows a Deluxe Six cabriolet and lists a Cabriolet 2/4P 2667 and 2867 in 1937, shows a Cabriolet and lists 2/4P

2667 and 2/4P 2867 in 1938, lists a 5P 2667 and 2867 in 1939, shows and lists a cabriolet 4P 2667 in 1940.

 

After having worked in GM Dealerships for 14 years and comparing this data from 1925 to 1940 my conclusion is that GM and GM divisions never let the left hand know what the right hand was doing. In fact I am not convinced that they remembered what happened last year and had no idea what might happen next year.

I believe that “Cabriolet” and “Convertible Coupe” could have been the names used for the same vehicle in different years. The same situation with “Silver Streak”, a name plate on certain year Pontiac cars but never an actual model, series or style.

[PONTIAC1953]

21 hours ago, Tinindian said:

A compilation from Books in my library.

 

April 1, 1934 Master parts list Pontiac and Oakland Chassis parts

shows a cabriolet for Oakland in 1931 O/8 and for Pontiac in 1931 and 1932 P/6 and P/8

 

1925-1940 Master Parts Book Pontiac and Oakland Chassis parts.

shows no cabriolet for any year but does show Convertible Coupe for 1931 P/6 and O/8,

1932 P/6, P/8, 1933 P/8, 1934 P/8, 1935 P/6 and P/8, 1936 P/6 and P/8 in both Master and Deluxe and the same for 1937-1940.

 

1934 Pontiac and Oakland Body Parts

Does not list a cabriolet from 1926-1934

Does list Convertible coupe in all places where the Chassis parts book lists a Cabriolet.

 

“A History of General Motors” by Timothy Jacobs shows a picture of a 1934 Cabriolet.

 

“Identification guide Pontiac 1926-1966” by Thomas Bonsall

Shows a Sport Cabriolet in 1928, a Convertible Cabriolet in 1929, a Convertible Coupe in 1931,

a V-8 and a Six Convertible Coupe in 1932, a Convertible Coupe in 1933, a Cabriolet in 1934,

a De Luxe Six and a De Lux eight Cabriolet in 1935, 1936 and 1937, an Eight and a Six Cabriolet in 1938 and 1940.

“standard catalog of PONTIAC 1926-1995”

Shows a convertible cabriolet and lists a Cabriolet Convertible 2/4P 8960 in 1929, lists a Convertible Coupe 2/4P 31318 in 1931, shows a V-8 Convertible Coupe 2/4P 32368 and lists a Convertible Coupe 2/4P 32318 for 1932, lists a Convertible Coupe 2/4P 33318 for 1933, lists a Cabriolet 2/4P 34318 for 1934, lists and shows a Six Cabriolet 2/4P 2167AA in 1935, shows a six cabriolet and lists Cabriolet 2/4P 6BB, 2/4P 6BA and 2/4P 8BA in 1936, Shows a Deluxe Six cabriolet and lists a Cabriolet 2/4P 2667 and 2867 in 1937, shows a Cabriolet and lists 2/4P

2667 and 2/4P 2867 in 1938, lists a 5P 2667 and 2867 in 1939, shows and lists a cabriolet 4P 2667 in 1940.

 

After having worked in GM Dealerships for 14 years and comparing this data from 1925 to 1940 my conclusion is that GM and GM divisions never let the left hand know what the right hand was doing. In fact I am not convinced that they remembered what happened last year and had no idea what might happen next year.

I believe that “Cabriolet” and “Convertible Coupe” could have been the names used for the same vehicle in different years. The same situation with “Silver Streak”, a name plate on certain year Pontiac cars but never an actual model, series or style.

silver streak was the pontiac name and emblem for the six cylinder engine, silver8streak was the emblem and silver streak 8 was the name for the straight eight engine.

[Guest]

A quote from Wayne Sheldon in "20's Studebaker" under General Discussion fits this topic I think.

"

Marketing hasn't changed much in a hundred years (although I think it has gotten somewhat worse!). They  have always twisted language to give an illusion of something "better", "sportier", or simply something else you MUST have.

No wonder we today have so much trouble trying to figure out what we should call our cars! Is it a "two-door sedan"? Is it a "coach"? Or maybe a "five passenger coupe"? All describe the same enclosed body "forward set" two door car with folding seats in the front to gain access into the rear bench seat. Just different names by different marques, in different years of marketing."

Cabriolet and convertible coupe not mentioned but still simply marketing hyperbola.

[Guest]

A quote from Wayne Sheldon in "20's Studebaker" under General Discussion fits this topic I think.

"

Marketing hasn't changed much in a hundred years (although I think it has gotten somewhat worse!). They  have always twisted language to give an illusion of something "better", "sportier", or simply something else you MUST have.

No wonder we today have so much trouble trying to figure out what we should call our cars! Is it a "two-door sedan"? Is it a "coach"? Or maybe a "five passenger coupe"? All describe the same enclosed body "forward set" two door car with folding seats in the front to gain access into the rear bench seat. Just different names by different marques, in different years of marketing."

Cabriolet and convertible coupe not mentioned but still simply marketing hyperbola.