What is Old Car Recycling?

[Guest]

To The Members of CCCA:<P>In your meeting minutes of approximately October 2000 you talked about "Old Car Recycling". Who's cars were you planning on recycling? Do you mean recycling in terms of crushing? What did your organization mean by it?<P>I hope you are not naive enough to think that you were going to recycle "non-classic" cars (again referring to your definition -- not mine). <P>If by "recycling" you mean crushing were you after the pollution credits?<P>Len Trimlett -- ltrimlet@pacbell.net

[Guest]

You obviously have the minutes to that meeting. Can you give us the transcript to the section in question?<P>Peter

[Guest]

Why don't you ask your webmaster why those minutes were removed from the web site. Then maybe your club can answer the question. <P>Your minutes when previously posted referred to Old Car Recycling. It was about September 2000. You should know being a member of the club what was meant. I am the one asking the question.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Well Len, <P>Here it is again. Our use of the words "Recycling" was not what you thought. I think you owe the people on this Discusion Forum an apology. The folowing is my reply to you in another post:<P>"No problem, the reference was about "recycling" cars in CCCA Judging. We have been trying to figure out how to get cars that have won every CCCA award there is to come back to our judging events. For better or worse, many people feel if there is no chance of winning an award, there is no point in participating in any of our Grand Classics. We are simply trying to increase patrticipation in our events.<P>As a result, we have recently instituted a new class, effective January 2002, where cars that have received a CCCA Senior or Premier award may enter into "Senior Emetitus Judging" where the can once again be recognized for the preservation of the restoration.<BR> <BR>Until we came up with the term "Senior Emeritus Judging," we refered to this catagory as "recycled" cars, since they were once again entering our judging system.<BR>It was nothing more than that, and had absoluely nothing to do with the "crusher".<P>The reason the reference is no longer on the web site, is the CCCA National Board voted to remove the minutes from the site. They were not very popular with our readers, and represented a great deal of work on my behalf to post. In a good month 10 or 15 people would look at them. As the servent of the Board, I obeyed and pushed the delete button.<P>I am quite happy to not have to type the things any more.<P>Now you know."<p>[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: Chuck Conrad ]

[Guest]

Len,<P>I agree with Chuck, an apology is appropriate. NOT for your position on recycling or scrapage laws (I suspect a majority on this forum agrees with you on that issue). However, an apology IS due for your grievance directed at the CCCA for having something to do with statements made by the ACCC.<P>THE CCCA AND ACCC ARE NOT THE SAME ORGANIZATION! NOR ARE THEY RELATED!<P>I suggest you post your concerns about negative legislation to the appropriate forum -- <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=44" TARGET=_blank>Legislation</A><P>Thanks,<P>Peter

[Guest]

Peter,<P>You forget that ACCC is a member organization of CCCA. The answer on the apology is NO!!<P>Len Trimlett

[Guest]

To Chuck:<P>I accept your explanation of old car recycling but I am biased by what is happening in California here and now.<P>Thank you for the explanation. <P>In our ?60s Mustang? judged shows we have a similar problem. The problem makes people not want to enter in judged shows. People that have modified Mustangs are getting judged way down because they are modified. I know in particular of a Mustang Limousine that got 15 out of a possible 500 points because it was modified. However in my opinion that Mustang Limo displayed more class, style and elegance of workmanship than any of its ?restored? vehicle counterparts that were in the show.<P>Many of the Mustang and Camaro people I talk to feel the same way about participating in judged shows. If there is no opportunity to win, why participate?<P>In my case, my ?65 Mustang is modified but it looks stock. You have to look at the VIN number to know that the engine has been changed from a 6 to an 8. The T-5 Motorsport transmission will tell you it is modified. Since it looks so stock (though modified) it gets creamed by other more radically modifieds. I have no great interest to participate in judged shows because I know I don?t have a big chance to trophy. I don?t care. I would rather go to a non-judged show.<P>Your goal to get those vehicles that left the judging back into the system is a worthy goal. I would probably second the way you are approaching it.<P>Len Trimlett

[Guest]

Chuck,<P>Len states that "... ACCC is a member organization of CCCA." <P>Is he right?<P>Peter<P>P.S. HECK! Len, you explain the how the organizations are related... I find nothing on either of their respoective sites that relates the clubs together.<p>[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: peterg ]

[Guest]

As a member of the National Board of the Classic Car Club of America, I know of no relation, formal or otherwise, between the Classic Car Club of America and the Association of California Car Clubs. Just because a member of one is a member of another does not make for a "connection". Mr Triplett's comments are unfortunate in that they do nothing to further cooperation among the diverse groups within the collector car hobby. In my opinion, these comments have been destructive and unproductive. I would hope that further posts are declined.<BR>Jon Lee

[Guest]

Chuck: The following are the words of Doug Laue (Chief of the Bureau of Automotive Repairs) at the California Inspection and Maintenance Review Committee Hearing in Sacramento in February 2001. It would appear that the only way that can happen is if old cars are scrapped (crushed) for pollution credits to offset power plant pollution. Since it appears Governor Davis talked about it, it is only fair to assume that the above conclusion represents an official State of California position. After all Doug Laue is a State of California Official and this testimony is official testimony by a State of California Official. He works for the Governor and has not been fired. <BR>Do I agree with it? NO, NO, NO. Do his words bias my view of what is meant by ?Old Car Recycling?? YES, YES, YES. Is it something we as a car community must deal with? YES, YES, YES. It is real. Do I have reason to make those statements ---- YES, YES, YES. Do I accept your explanation of ?old car recycling???? YES, YES, YES. Do I apologize??? NO, NO, NO. Because it is happening in California and has that connotation in California.<BR>Scrappage of old cars is real and is in process in California. It is called the ?Voluntary Accelerated Retirement Program?. The State of California gives you $1000 for your vehicle, crushes it and then sells pollution credits to refineries and power plants to offset their pollution. <BR>A pollution credit transfers the right to pollute from our cars (that includes your ?classics?) to refineries and power plants.<BR>This is real and happening in California as well as all over the United States. It is fully sanctioned by the USEPA. It is part of the Kyoto Treaty ?.. And you want me to apologize????<BR>WORDS OF DOUG LAUE at FEBRUARY 6, 2001 CALIFORNIA INSPECTION AND MAINTENANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE HEARING<BR>INTERIM CHAIRMAN GANNON: The next item to take up -- <BR>MALE VOICE: Public Comments?<BR>INTERIM CHAIRMAN GANNON: Well, we'll have time for public comments in just a second, but I know Doug Lowery (phonetic), the head of BAR is here and also Pat Duray(phonetic), and I would like to invite either one of you to address our committee such as it is today if you so choose.<BR>I know there were issues that were raised this morning with respect to some of the recommendations that we have made. It's fairly clear now that we are going to have to review these recommendations that have not been acted upon when we have a quorum of the committee at our next meeting, hopefully. And given that fact and in light of the fact that we are going to be going through this again, certainly if you wanted to defer comments to another meeting that's fine. On the other hand, we would invite any comments that you'd care to make today with respect to the recommendations.<BR>We did discuss the scrappage and I understand that that was a matter that the Governor was touching on earlier today, so Mr. Lowery, the floor is yours if you'd care to take it.<BR>MR. LOWERY: Thank you Acting Chairman Gannon, committee members. Doug Lowery, Chief of the Bureau of Automotive Repair.<BR>I understand that you are fixated on the '66 through '73 issue and the inclusion of those vehicles in the bi-annual smog inspection program and that that is one of the staff recommendations of this committee.<BR>Clearly we're going to be needing more vehicular pollution reduction as we begin to generate more electricity using plants that don't quite meet the air quality standards, so anything that we can find including the inclusion of those vehicles is going to be very seriously entertained including inclusion of those vehicles into smog check program.<BR>We're very sensitive, though, to the owners of classsic cars from that era, genuine classics, cars that are driven to events, cars that are shown, and if we can find a way without creating a loophole to allow those vehicles to continue to be enjoyed by all of us without the necessity of going though a bi-annual inspection I think that would be beneficial to us.<P><BR>

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

>>Len states that "... ACCC is a member organization of CCCA." <P>Is he right?<<<P>Actually, I'd never heard of ACCC until Len brought them up. Of course, I don't live in California, either, so maybe that explains my ignorance. ACCC is certainly NOT a division of CCCA and as far as I can tell they are not members either. They aren't listed in the 2001 CCCA Members Roster. It is possible that some of their members may also belong to the CCCA. Of course, <B>anybody</B> can be a member of CCCA. Even Len could join. He would then get a printed copy of the minutes of every CCCA Board meeting delivered to his mailbox. He'd also get a roster of members every year so he could tell exactly who is (and who is not) a member of CCCA. He might even be able to get his facts right.<p>[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: Chuck Conrad ]

[Guest]

Note to Peter:<P>These recent, rambling, marginally incoherent, largely inappropriate and wholly irritating postings concerning definitions, recycling and the like are to me offensive and distracting. Is there a place, unrelated to the simple pursuit of old car enjoyment that they can be sent?

[Guest]

Chuck,<P>Feel free to to delete this thread. I would... but it's really your call. <P>Peter

[Bill Stoneberg]

Peter & Chuck,<BR>I would be careful deleting posts. It might make more waves then just leaving Len alone.<BR>I can see hime now posting on "What has happened to my other posts ? You must be censoring me."<BR>That could get nasty. Len has good ideas but very poor execution. <BR>My 2 cents.<BR>Bill

[Guest BillP]

Bill-<BR>If ever someone begs to be censored, it is this clown Len. His ideas are not good, his execution is lousy, he is deceitful and he doesn't really know much about old cars, classic or otherwise. <BR>He belongs on a park bench where his rantings can be ignored. <BR>If I ever sink to that level, I hope that someone would have the decency to help me not be a burden, laughing stock even, on my betters. BillP

[Guest BillP]

All-<P>In a cooler moment, it occurred to me that my previous post may have violated one or more strictures of the registration agreement. I speak specifically of the limits on defamatory or abusive language. In this, I have erred and not served my fellow hobbyists in a postive fashion. <P>Allow me to restate my position in a more reasonable and conciliatory tone.<P>Mr. Trimlett may be an excellent resource for those whose interest in classic automobiles involves debates on unrelated definitions, obscure state law and alternative viewpoints regarding use of the word 'recycling'. <P>Sincere apologies to all. I will stay within bounds in the future.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

I have seriously considered deleting Len's posts, but I think they simply speak for themselves. Deleting them would probably serve no good purpose.<P>Besides, you have to admit he has been very good for traffic on our otherwise pretty sleepy discussion forum. I've always been amused by the marketing skills of P. T. Barnum. I'm sure he would approve of keeping Len around. <p>[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Chuck Conrad ]

[Guest]

Thanks to BillP, I have also rethought my earlier comments. At the recently past CCCA Board Meeting, Chuck and I and a couple of other Board members rather enjoyed recounting our "Trimlett Adventures" on this discussion board with those who are not internet connected. It was rather fun actually. So, thanks, BillP for getting me to rethink, and I will try to appreciate opportunities no matter from where they originate!<BR>Jon Lee

[Guest]

As a CCCA clubmember and occasional visitor on this site,I must say that this has been entertaining.What I've seen here only makes me ten times more glad that I joined the CCCA.It's a real pleasure to associate with intelligent,articulate people who really care about furthering the old car hobby as a whole,and see the authentic preservation of the rare "survivors" of our world's automotive heritage as an important task.<BR> We are all in this hobby together..there will always be diversity,but as long as we all keep the big picture in mind..PRESERVATION..hopefully the hobby will survive.