Questions from a pre-neophyte

[Guest]

Since I've never entered a vehicle for any "real" judging outside of local shows, I qualify as not even a neophyte yet; however, I have a question that may seem stupid to the old hands but here goes anyway: What is the purpose behind the policy that the exhibitor of a car that has had some deductions not be told what the deductions are for? Is it to encourage intensive individual research, i.e. to discover on his/her own that the regular man was out sick the day & shift that the car was made: his substitute was left-handed; consequently, all the cotter pins on his side should have the heads to the left of the castle nuts?<P>Or is the reason more mundane: to eliminate a potential source of arguments on the field?<P>Or to protect a judge from bodily harm?<P>I'd really like, someday, to enter a car in an AACA-sanctioned show. Personally, 100%authenticity is more important than a $9,000 paint job on an (originally) $900 car (this is why the research thing appeals to me), but not many seem to share that sentiment. I've seen assembly line photos and moving pictures of wheel-less cars dragged across floors, bare fasteners showing, crooked convertible top seams, jamming into railcars, poorly fit body panels "persuaded" with sledgehammers, etc. If 100% authenticity is the goal then show cars should bear their birth scars, but it does seem that 100% perfection instead is the show restorer's goal. So what's a pre-beginner to do? Do individual judges exhibit preferences in these areas?

[ronbarn]

For AACA judging, authenticity is very important. A vehicle will get a lot more deductions a lot faster for non-authentic items than for cosmetic or maintenance irregularities. However, I assure you that the direction of a cotter pin will not cause a deduction, but use of a regular nut where a castle nut with a cotter pin was original will cause a fairly minor deduction unless there a lot of them.<P>We are well aware that there were irregularities that sometime occured on the production line. However, to insist that during a restoration the owner or restorer recreate a production error that cannot be documented would be absurd. We do know that for some vehicles, for example Cushman scooters, production welds were generally very rough. We make no deductions for those. Again, if during a restoration the owner has a more proficient welder fix a frame component, we will not deduct for a better weld. That would also be absurd.<P>There are several reasons for not revealing scores. The most fundamental reason is that it is not the responsibility of the judges to do the research or tell the owner how to do a better job. That is the sole responsibility of the owner. Another reason is that if we tell the owner the score of a vehicle that did not win due to the point spread then we would have to justify the scores of the competitors - where would we stop. And then there is the time factor. Since we must judge all the vehicles, process the results and make the awards all within about seven or eight hours, time is critical and there simply is not enough time to point out every detail to every owner. So you say that may be true at Hershey or some of the other large meets, but what about a smaller meet. Our rules and procedures are consistent for all meets. That consistency is the reason that our system has worked so well. A good vehicle that does well at a smaller western meet will do well at Hershey, generally. The only difference is that there may be more competition, not necessarily better competition. <P>If an owner does not get the award they are going after, they can get a copy of the judging sheet with areas where there were deductions marked, but not the actual points deducted. In addition, the Team Captain should tell the owner if there is a major deduction noted by the judges. Generally this is no surprise to the owner since they generally know far more about their specific vehicle than the judges.<P>I highly recommend that before you start showing your car, attend a judging school (you will be given a Judging Manual at that time or can order one separately) and serve on an Apprentice Team, and if interested in learning more, actually judge a few time to see how our system works and what the judges are looking for. Hope this helps for a start. Am sure others will provide some comments. <p>[This message has been edited by ronbarn (edited 10-24-2000).]

[novaman]

I agree with Father Ron, attending a judging school would be a good idea. I started judging 13 yrs ago. There is a lot to learn about what we are looking at and how to deduct points fairly. the whole judging process is easy but very scary the first couple of times out becuase you want to be fair and also the first time jitters. I know of people the get ready to show thier car with the convert. top down. that's a no-no. I'll tell the owner they should put the top up and why, before the judging starts. I personally don't walk the ailse my class is in so that I feel I can be fair, but that's my perferance. the people who do things like put the top down, etc., just don't know anything about the judging and it is this group of people that would be wise to attend a judging school, even if they don't judge afterwards.

[Guest]

Wow; I got more information than I hoped for. I agree that a judging school would really benefit a novice. I'm also happy to learn that a copy of the sheet (no points) is obtainable to the owner at a later date; that makes a lot of sense as it enables the owner to do some more specific research; this is valuable as the primary sources often charge for access. Thanks; I'm feeling encouraged.<P>By the way: the cotter pin thing was only my feeble attempt at humor . I am fanatical enough to take that sort of thing seriously, though.