Restorer32 Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Anyone have any experience with new front wheel bearings with nylon cages? Installed a set in a 47 Caddy, the cages disappeared (melted) in 150 miles. A check of BCA website reveals that these cages are good for 250 degrees only. Didn't think I had the bearings any tighter than I usually set them..anyone else have this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Never seen anything but STEEL bearing cages...I just had to get a new set of wheel bearings ...was very disappointed to see that the TIMKEN number....brought me JAP bearings (are ALL our jobs going over-seas)...but the bearings appeared to be of good quality and identical to the timkens<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 My supplier, Kaman Industrial, researched Timken, BCA, as well as Chicago Rawhide and tells me all 3 are going to nylon cages...solved the problem by sourcing the bearings from OlCar Bearings but suspect this will become another ongoing problem...any thoughts on how tight to make front wheel bearings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Restorer 32,<P>Are we talking roller or ball bearings here?<P>All the service literature I've read over the years warns against "pre-loading" roller bearings, as opposed to ball bearings, which do require some "pre-load".<P>("pre-load" on a wheel bearing would be running the nut up finger tight, and then tightening it further with a wrench- either to a torque spec or "until the next castelation lines up with the hole in the spindle". Most of my roller-bearing front ends suggest running the nut up finger tight, then backing the nut off a slot or two and then installing the cotter pin, which leaves the hub with some slight "in& out play", but when the weight of the car is on the wheels, the bearing cones are forced outwards against the spindle and nut/washer.<BR>Check your car's appropriate shop manual for specific instructions.)<P>If your front wheel bearings are getting hot enough to melt a plastic bearing cage, I would suspect that either the bearings are too tight, there's insufficient grease, or the brakes are dragging, or any combination of the above. <P>I'm not crazy about a plastic-caged bearing either, but that kind of heat would concern me.<P>If you have a bearing specialty company in your area such as "Bearings Unlimited" (check your Yellow Pages under "Bearings"), they can possibly fix you up with some older stock steel cage stuff, if you provide them with bearing number or dimensions.<P>It was sad to drive through Lancaster PA a number of years ago and see the Bower Bearing factory abandoned and silent...<P>Good luck!<p>[ 08-05-2002: Message edited by: DeSoto Frank ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted August 6, 2002 Author Share Posted August 6, 2002 We're talking ball bearings, plenty of grease, no brake drag...guess I had them too tight although on a 100 degree day cages that melt at 250 don't leave much of a afety margin do they? Just thought I'd give others a "heads up" to a potential problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 i have an '01 Dodge full size pic-up 1/2 ton 2wd. with some kind of 'sealed for life' front wheel bearings. NO locking castle nor cotter pin. The flanged nut looks like cheap die-cast with markings 'Do Not Resuse'. The left front is a little looser than what i like. Tightening the nut with a 3/4 drive rachet 28" long will barely budge it. Looks like we need to get updated on things to come in bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Still not sure what you guys are talking about. While some cars have ALWAYS used BALL bearings for wheel bearings, most heavy duty applications use ROLLERS ( I believe this was ALWAYS the case with Packard ).<P>I agree...shouldn't have a wheel bearing that has ROLLERS with any serious pre-load. So they shouldn't get hot...well...that's fine for cars with drum brakes...but what about DISC braked vehicles...they get HOT HOT HOT. Sounds like I better stock up on steel-caged wheel bearings for my airplane...those little discs get DAMNED hot after a high speed landing on a short runway.<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted August 6, 2002 Author Share Posted August 6, 2002 My question/concern is not about ball vs. roller bearings but rather steel cage ball bearings vs the new nylon cage ball bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Restorer 32,<P>I don't know what else say, at this point... the only time I've had a ball wheel bearing come apart was on a 1954 Chevy 3/4 ton truck; we pulled the front drums off to work on brakes, and when the right front hub came off, all the balls from the inner bearing rolled out and the cage was in two-halves, split like a clam shell.<P>At this point, if you can get the steel caged bearings, use 'em. Did you notice any heat bluing on the balls from your nylon- caged sacrifice?<P>When you do get all-steel bearings in there, it might be worthwhile to take the car out for a good run, and when you return home, pop the dust cap and outer bearing and stick a Taylor digital instant-read kitchen probe themometer into the hub and 'Take its temperature'. These thermometers run about $10-$12 at the average kitchenware store.It'd be interesting to know just how warm your front hubs are getting...<P>I'd seriously consider sending those nylon bearings back to the mfr and asking them to explain why they failed? I mean, a 3-piece ball bearing assembly with outer race, ball race, and inner cone is a pretty specific item: it's a front wheel bearing, and I highly doubt they were used on anything but drum brake cars and trucks, so it doesn't sound like the product meets the required design specs!<BR>(Unless these nylon caged things are for lawn & garden tractors, or something along those lines that neither runs at high speeds or is sublect to brake heat.)<P>What else can one say? Looks like the world is "going to hell in a Plastic handbasket"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted August 9, 2002 Author Share Posted August 9, 2002 Replaced the nylon caged bearings with old stock steel caged design, all is well. Failed bearings were from a major manufacturer, BCA I think, and were what the catalog called for for a '47 Cadillac front wheel bearing. The point is, perhaps we did have them a bit snug but steel would have provided a bit of a safety margin. Live and learn I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Something to consider... vertually ALL front wheel drive cars that use replaceable bearings (not the hub assemblies referred to above) use a double row ball bearing. All of them that I have serviced have nylon cages and I can't recall ever seeing a cage melted. Since these bearings carry the weight of the engine and transaxle and are subjected to the heat of modern disc brakes, I think they would be more likely to fail than those mentioned on the Caddy. Also, they are a sealed bearing and are not able to be periodically repacked with grease.<BR>I would have to believe that the problem was a defective bearing, installed too tight or not properly lubricated. Were the bearings smeared with grease when installed or were they actually PACKED with grease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 packed...just as I've done dozens of times before...conclusion seems to be I must have had them too tight...and would have gotten away with it on steel cage bearings but not nylon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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