1925 touring car

[Guest john69]

Can any of you gents tell me what details define the "special" touring car for 1925, as opposed to the "standard". My '25 has 20" disc wheels, nickle plated radiator shell and bumpers, and four curious vertical strips on the back of the backseat, which I presume were for some sort of luggage tie down. If any of you have a picture or sample of the top strap tie down hooks, I very much need to know what they look like or to procure one or a pair of them. I have had the car a little over a year, and have about 1,300 miles on it so far; when I got it, the engine had been apart and out of the car since at least 1975.

John york@napanet.net

[MikeC5]

Hi John, welcome to the forum. In addition to the items you mentioned, I believe the parking lights (on the cowl) were extras. I'm in the middle of restoring a '25 touring car but the upholstery is really ragged and I don't see any evidence of strips you mentioned. Please post some photos of your car when you get a chance.

[Guest john69]

Hi John, welcome to the forum. In addition to the items you mentioned, I believe the parking lights (on the cowl) were extras. I'm in the middle of restoring a '25 touring car but the upholstery is really ragged and I don't see any evidence of strips you mentioned. Please post some photos of your car when you get a chance.

Yes, my car has the cowl lights too, and apparently had original step plates as well, but only one original one came with the car, so the previous owner replaced all with modern ones. I will get some pics to post soon.

John

[Guest 1930]

I believe Mike is correct concerning the cowl lights as being an indicator, the step plates though I believe are always going to be an add on possibly by dealer or owner later at some point.

There are some other indicators but for the life of me I just cant seem to remember them now

[Pete K.]

Welcome John! I just found my '25 touring about 2 months ago, been very busy with it too, getting it cleaned up and so forth. I believe the "special" models had the parking lights on cowl, with plated rims and plated front and rear bumpers. Radiator shell would be plated instead of black paint too. I don't think the strips you speak of are Dodge Brothers accessories, I take it they are vertical strips on the rear of the body? I've seen them on other makes of old cars. As far as the top strap tie downs, do mean the iron brackets that mount to the outer body to hold the top bows? (when the top is lowered.) They can be very allusive parts to procure! You can read my past posts here on this forum to verify what you may be referring to as "top saddles". I'm in the process of making new, replacement brackets and saddles now, for the '25 and other years, including the roadsters. Also, I was under the impression that the '25 Dodges had 21 inch wheels, compared to your 20" disc wheels. I suppose it doesn't really make that much difference, if they're nice and straight wheels, "use 'em!" I would...Best regards, Pete.

[Guest john69]

Be assured, there is no "rodding" in my blood; this is my 3rd 4 cyl Dodge, starting with a '26 that I had in high school in the early 60s; it just sold several weeks ago on E Bay, and is going into a restoration shop, then into a fire apparatus museum in Pa. The only thing I have done to my present car, is to install turn signals, using all original tail light parts and the cowl lights; this for safety! The step plates were an original acessory, perhaps, but I note that the running boards were (factory) punched with square holes to accomodate them, and the one that came with the car was identical to the ones pictured in the DB accessory brochure.

[Guest john69]

Welcome John! I just found my '25 touring about 2 months ago, been very busy with it too, getting it cleaned up and so forth. I believe the "special" models had the parking lights on cowl, with plated rims and plated front and rear bumpers. Radiator shell would be plated instead of black paint too. I don't think the strips you speak of are Dodge Brothers accessories, I take it they are vertical strips on the rear of the body? I've seen them on other makes of old cars. As far as the top strap tie downs, do mean the iron brackets that mount to the outer body to hold the top bows? (when the top is lowered.) They can be very allusive parts to procure! You can read my past posts here on this forum to verify what you may be referring to as "top saddles". I'm in the process of making new, replacement brackets and saddles now, for the '25 and other years, including the roadsters. Also, I was under the impression that the '25 Dodges had 21 inch wheels, compared to your 20" disc wheels. I suppose it doesn't really make that much difference, if they're nice and straight wheels, "use 'em!" I would...Best regards, Pete.

My '26 Dodge had 21" wheels (wood) spoke. What I need are the hooks that connect the rear top straps to the body, which has eyes that accomodate hooks that would be about 1/2" wide and perhaps 1/16" thick. I am also looking for top saddles as well; I do know that Meyers has the mounting shafts that connect the saddles into the body itself; let me know when you are able to supply the saddles!!! Another unusual thing with my disc wheel car is that the rear bumper is split into "bumperettes" that only protect the back fenders; I suppose they thought the spare tire and wheel made a good bumper in and of itself. Yes, vertical strips on the rear of the body, made of cast aluminum.

[Guest 1930]

Be assured, there is no "rodding" in my blood; this is my 3rd 4 cyl Dodge, starting with a '26 that I had in high school in the early 60s; it just sold several weeks ago on E Bay, and is going into a restoration shop, then into a fire apparatus museum in Pa. The only thing I have done to my present car, is to install turn signals, using all original tail light parts and the cowl lights; this for safety! The step plates were an original acessory, perhaps, but I note that the running boards were (factory) punched with square holes to accomodate them, and the one that came with the car was identical to the ones pictured in the DB accessory brochure.

Good to hear, Pete has it right as well concerning the chrome grille shell as another indicator but not sure myself on the bumpers. I have never owned a Dodge earlier earlier than a 29 so all of my referances are from books and talking with guys like you.

I like the idea of using the cowl lights as front turn signals and installing the rear signals in the lights is the way to go as well.

I would like to see these holes if its not too much trouble, no rush

[Guest john69]

It would be pretty difficult to show the step plate holes, as I have put new linoleum over them; the new step plates did not have the same hole pattern, so I centered them on the original square hole patterns. As to the cowl lights for signals, I used thinned out paint to tint the bulbs sort of amber colored to match modern practice. Tp controll the signals, I bought a double throw switch from Ron Francis Wiring that is specially made for the purpose and allows for blinling on one side or the other without interfering with the other lights functions; I still need to make a visible indicator for the interior of the car to remind me to turn them off after the turn.

[MikeC5]

I think I know what you're after on the top strap tie downs. There was a pair on fleabay a few months ago and I thought I had saved the image (got out bid). I can't find it though. They were simple, flat sheet metal and would be easy to have made (can someone post a photo and a few dimensions)? Interesting about the bumperettes. I don't think I've seen these before.

[Guest john69]

I think I know what you're after on the top strap tie downs. There was a pair on fleabay a few months ago and I thought I had saved the image (got out bid). I can't find it though. They were simple, flat sheet metal and would be easy to have made (can someone post a photo and a few dimensions)? Interesting about the bumperettes. I don't think I've seen these before.

Yes, that is what I am looking for, the sheetmetal hooks that you allude to; If they were on fleabay a few months ago, I'm surprised that I missed them, although I do know that "dbracer" did sell a set sometime back; he's looking for the pics too, but no luck so far; even though they can't be seen, I'd like to make them look original; I've loked in the parts book, but it does not detail them.

[Pete K.]

AH... Those hooks! Here's what's been holding the top straps in my '25 for many years by the look of them. The only trouble is... they're not sheet metal! About the top saddles, yes, Myers Dodge Parts does sell the split shaft parts---for the ORIGINAL top saddles, which are not reproduced. I am in the process of making special arms for the Dodge body sockets and using adjustable aftermarket iron and leather saddles with leather straps for the replacement of the large iron top saddles. They are not the Dodge originals, but they'll work and look pretty good too. They won't cost so much either, nor come with rust pits.

[Guest john69]

The tabs that come up through my seat back through the tack strip do not have the round hole that the pictures show on your car; they seem to be about 1/8" high X 1/2" wide, that is a slot rather than a hole, but maybe I need to dig a little deeper and see what is underneath. I might also mention that my car is a '25 model year, but was built in about mid 1924; did Dodge ever build two cars exactly the same, I wonder? It might be an idea, that if the tabs are detachable from below, to make new tabs that would accept the snaps that are shown in your picture. I saw pictures of one '25 sold on e bay some months ago, that had an inner liner between the rear curtain and the front side of the tackstrip that hid the straps entirely; Is the picture you have posted showing original work? Thanks, John

[Pete K.]

John, I'm sometimes confused on what's original and what's a very old replacement or restored on my Dodge touring. I'm sure of one thing is the top was replaced a LONG time ago, and now it really needs a new one, but it will have to do since it's not in the budget. My top strap hooks look like something you would find in an old hardware store in the 1950's. I don't think they've changed much since then either. They do hook onto small rectangular slotted tabs behind the rear seat. All the wood and metal top bows are original. My Dodge's serial # is A 388850, a series 1925, 12 volt car, with a series date of mid July, 1926. I seem to recall Packard used the same "series" designations for their cars too. I'm beginning to think the same as you concerning Dodge building two identical cars!

[MikeC5]

I did read somewhere (maybe here) that it wasn't unusual for production improvements to by made as they were ready. If so, many minor details could be different on cars 2 years apart in build date. The flat brackets I saw looked much less expensive to make that the hardware on Pete's car, leading me to believe he's correct about the hardware store origin.

[Guest john69]

One thing that I noticed is that the metal tabs shown in the picture are different than mine, in that mine have a rectangular slot and the picture shows tabs with a larger round slot. The snap hooks seem to me to have the right look, although there would be no need for them to have swivels, as they do, which might indicate that they have been replaced, as you suggest.

I will try to take a few pictures of the tabs and the bumperettes and post them today.

John

[MikeC5]

Here's a shot of what mine look like..

[Guest john69]

This metal tab is the same as the ones on my car; can anybody supply a picture of the hooks that match it? I tried to post a picture of mine, and the bumperettes today, but was unable to do so; I guess we'll try again; any hints as how to go about it? We loaded the URLs on the appropriate page, but it came back and said that it was unable to do so on account of some security issue; it's a mystery! Thank God that the Dodge Brothers cars don't depend on computers!

John

[Guest 1930]

I did read somewhere (maybe here) that it wasn't unusual for production improvements to by made as they were ready. If so, many minor details could be different on cars 2 years apart in build date. The flat brackets I saw looked much less expensive to make that the hardware on Pete's car, leading me to believe he's correct about the hardware store origin.

You read correct Mike, early D.B cars did not make yearly changes but instead made changes to their cars as soon as the changes were proven to be a go

[Guest 1930]

This metal tab is the same as the ones on my car; can anybody supply a picture of the hooks that match it? I tried to post a picture of mine, and the bumperettes today, but was unable to do so; I guess we'll try again; any hints as how to go about it? We loaded the URLs on the appropriate page, but it came back and said that it was unable to do so on account of some security issue; it's a mystery! Thank God that the Dodge Brothers cars don't depend on computers!

John

John I may be incorrect but the warning you are getting is on account of the picture being too large, I have also experienced this same type of warning and although the verbage does not point in that direction that is the issue. says something about a security token whatever that is if Im not mistaken

[Guest 1930]

There is a post here John that I believe will give you what you need, the guy only made a few posts, he was from CT. but I do believe he showed these hooks you are after, real nice guy, he showed a picture of himself and part of his family in their car and I made the comment that they looked like the Bevery Hill Billies if that rings any bells for anyone to find that thread and help.

[Guest john69]

Any idea when that might have been? Does anybody out there remember anything that might lead me to the post?

John

[MikeC5]

I searched through the forum on everything top-related I could think of but couldn't find it.

[Guest 1930]

Ill see if I can find it, I just hope Im thinking of the right part you need the picture of

[Guest john69]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you can find it!!!

John. If any of you would like to see the pics of the bumperettes, send my your e mail address, and I can send the pics directly; we are working to figure out the proceedure to post them on this forum, it seems that our file size is too big so far. John york@napanet.net

[Guest 1930]

I searched through the forum on everything top-related I could think of but couldn't find it.

Mike, ( or D-2 as you have a good memory as well ) someone made a post a while back about some sort of tensioning strap for the top, no-one knew the answer, this guy comes out of the blue and posts a bunch of pictures of is very original car, ( this guy seemed to have all the answers ..........Machinest Bill, this is the same guy that gave his opinions on wooden wheel re-spoking which I clearly disagreed with ) shows a triangle shaped deelio that has something to do with the top, gave a great photo of some sort of pin I think attached to the side of the body and I believe within that pin photo was a good picture of these hooks.

The guy lived in Ct, showed a picture of himself and his wife, maybe early to mid fifties in age, looked like they were dressed up for show ( no offense ) and I commented I think about wheres Ellie May or Jethro or something like that.

Does that help, spent a good deal of time searching but have not run across it yet myself.

[Guest 1930]

Ok John, thanks too Bills number of posts it was easier to find by searching his history, unfortunately the pictures will not help, the post will be found here, sorry I guess I cannot help......http://forums.aaca.org/f143/what-319678.html#post981878

John, I love a good mystery so if you cannot get your answer please let me know and I guarantee I will get you those pics, if you do find your answer, please post your results here so we can all learn something.

Edited June 10, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest john69]

I did read somewhere (maybe here) that it wasn't unusual for production improvements to by made as they were ready. If so, many minor details could be different on cars 2 years apart in build date. The flat brackets I saw looked much less expensive to make that the hardware on Pete's car, leading me to believe he's correct about the hardware store origin.

I wonder if you could possibly make a sketch from memory of what this thing looks like?

[Guest john69]

I tried a message to machinist bill, but they do not recognise the name. John

[Steve Redelman]

Hello Jason, I think you may be looking for me, but I am from IN. I just may fit the Jethro and Ellie May comment. Ha Ha! But I am 60 thanks for the complement (early 50's?). The pictures that you saw would be of my 21. Here are some shots of my 2 Dodge Brothers. Steve

[Guest 1930]

Hi Steve, nice to hear from you again, I must have my pictures/info mixed up, I went thru all of your posts and I dont see you dressed up and I dont see a Ellie May or Jethro comment either. This guy was from CT also, I remember that because I am originally from there as well.

You still look like your in your early to mid fifties though if that helps

Can you help with what this fellow is looking for, not knowing the early cars as well as you I cant be of any more help at this point

Youll notice I said in post 21 ......real nice guy........that was defanitely reffering to you so how about it

Oy yeah, goes without saying prob but nice cars

Edited June 11, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest john69]

If my dodge had a new top, it would look just luke the car pictured (that has a top), some color, etc. Could you send me a picture of it to my regular e mail address, ands perhaps a detail picture of where the top straps meet the rear seat back, showing the hook that fastens the straps to the body loops? John york@napanet.net

[Guest john69]

Looking closer at this car, the only difference I see is that mine has the bumperettes, and this one has the full width bumper in the rear.

John

[Steve Redelman]

Hi Jason and John, I found some pictures of the hook that attaches the rear bow to the body on the 25. I sold this top on the bay to a gentleman out west but still have some pictures of the sheet-metal hooks. Any help I can be just ask. I will have to start a new post and ask some questions about the performance of my 24 and this is another story. Also thanks for the complement, Jason and the other posters on this form are the best for helping us guys out with information! generally I can find out most everything I have been looking for in the old posts. Thanks again Steve

[Guest john69]

This is the magic picture that I have been looking for!!!!! I think from this, I can scale up to something that will look correct on the car; again, many thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John

[Guest 1930]

Thanks Steve, another mystery solved

[Guest john69]

I am posting some pics showing the bumperettes on my '25, and also the job that I did installing stop lights on both sides, using original Dodge parts by rebending the arm and inverting the liense plate holder bracket to match; it looks like it belongs there, and exactly matches the originaql L.H. lamp and bracket.

[MikeC5]

News Flash! I asked Tom Myers what he knew about these strap ends and he is getting repros made. He figures they will be ready for sale in about a month. Photo is from Tom (an original, it appears).

[MikeC5]

Nice looking car John! I like those bumperettes. I don't think I've seen them before on a DB of this era. Same for the vertical trip pieces; maybe both were period accessories? The blue body color looks good too. Any idea what color code by any chance?

[Guest john69]

Apparently miine are different than these; look at the earlier post by Steve Redelman; these are the ones that my car takes; I have scaled them and made templates, and will cut them out of 16ga sheet metal.