A plethora of 1919 Dodge Brothers convertible coupe questions

[Guest brian j]

Hi. I've fielded a handfull of questions about my 1919 DB, of which are posted in several posts i have done recently. I'm going to try to condense the answers into this one post. And i have a few questions of my own. First, it was asked to see my toe board tag. Here's a pic

[Guest 1930]

I have not seen an early one, wonder why they went out of their way to mention battery? Thanks

[Guest brian j]

Next, it was asked how much wood in the body, i think. There is actually quite a bit of wood in the body, some is original, and various pieces have also been replaced. I have attached some pics to give an idea of the overall amount of wood. In the past replacement of the wood there may have been changes to the species of wood used. I'm going to try to document the species of "confirmed" original wood, as i get into this thing, and i'll post that information in the future. A question i have????......Pictured is a piece of the original floor wood with a stamping 8 PC 10666 . It may be hard to read from the pic. Is there a significance of the stamping? The wood in the trunk is painted a yellow color, that i'm not sure yet if it was originally painted, or someones handiwork.

[Guest brian j]

Here's the stamped wood 8 PC 10666

[1936 D2]

Photo 100_1167.jpg... What is the electrical push button for? ( Electric door locks? - Maybe a pistol compartment release? :eek: )

Oops. I AM looking at the driver's door. Did not realize they were front opening. I would then guess it is the electrical horn button as "1930" has suggested. Are we right?

Edited March 16, 2012 by 1936 D2
Added info (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

On my 29 Chevrolet Fisher ( body builder ) would etch into the wooden floorboard numbers, some of their numbers that only they were able to use, my guess would be these are the same.

Dont lose them, neat

Edited March 16, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Photo 100_1167.jpg... What is the electrical push button for? ( Electric door locks? - Maybe a pistol compartment release? :eek: )

Good question, I believe they had the horn button mounted on the door up until such and such serial number but pass door makes no sense

[Bob Scafani]

here are some photos of my coupe. mine like yours does not have a removeable pillar like the 1917-1918 coupes. This one was originally owned by Lois Knowlson Dodge. She was the first of Horace junior's 5 wives.

[Guest brian j]

Here's a pic of the striped mohair seat, in a place that hasn't seen the sun. In the center of it is a sample SMS fabrics came up with as a close match should i ever decide to re-upholster the seat. It is wool, not mohair, and i'm not inclined at this point to buy a bolt of it yet. I'm still searching.....

[Guest brian j]

I'll address more questions later. For now i'll post more pics. I have before and after pics of the paint on the car. As you can see the finish is a crackly looking light gray with a greenish hue. The whole car was painted with a cheap lampblack finish at one time, and i believe this has preserved the base color. i I chose a couple of areas where the finish was not as deteriorated, and applied a rubbing compound to bring back the original tone. Pictured are the results. It appears to be more of a military green color. If you look closely at the pics you will see the remnants of a professionally done black pinstripe along the beltline. Is there a possibilty that this car may have once been involved in the " 1919 U.S. Army transcontinental convoy" that used Dodge Brothers cars to demonstrate their abilty to travel militarily cross country?

[Guest 1930]

All literature that I have states the Blue Black Cream combo like Bobs car above but of course he dosent have the wires so different color. Bob could prob. answer any question you might have

[Guest brian j]

Here's some pics of the mystery rear side windows. They look like they should be able to be lowered....... almost. You can see the strap in the slot at the base frame. In another pic i show the strap partially pulled out. I can see if the Dodge Brother had decided to use currently made parts to make a non- removable "convertible" coupe top. But it doesn't make sense to me they would build and install a lowering strap on a non functional window. They could have just as easily trimmed the non functioning window without a lowering strap. There probably is more to this than meets the eye......

[Guest brian j]

Here's a pic of the seat. It could very well be considered a 3 person coupe because of the width of the seat on the passenger side. They just wouldn't be able to fit 3 people of "my"size.

[Guest 1930]

Going to bed now Brian but I do have some things to add that might help you so stay tuned till tomm. Thanks for the great pict.

[Guest brian j]

For the first question....i may have an answer. I read or heard somewhere the early DB cars would charge the battery at a high rate, and that it was sometimes required to disconnect a cable due to overcharging. This would necessitate regular topping off of the electrolyte due to "battery boiling". Distilled water probably wasn't available everywhere, so, it is reminded on the tag as a maintenance of importance. I think the Dodge Brothers wanted their early electric start cars to be noted for the reliability of the electric start, so they were stressing vigilance of the battery maintenance. I'm sure a lot of people of the day detested hand cranking. Makes sense to me......but i could be wrong.....

[Guest brian j]

In the Book of Information Dodge Brothers Motor vehicles 1919 edition, Pg. 39-on it explains the stuff i was just talking about in good detail. One suggestion for overcharged battery even says to leave the lights on with the vehicle not running, in order to bring the battery charge back down

[Guest brian j]

Answer to question #2 is yes, the button on the driver door, it's for the horn

[Guest brian j]

Question to Bob Scafani. Does your car have the same striped mohair as mine? Could you post a close up pic of the pattern? Also, i'm still not convinced yet that my car was supposed to be blue black and cream. I could be wrong but the olive green paint still looks original to the car to me, along with the black pinstripe under the beltline. I'll be doing some more research to try to find a definetive answer to that. I'm going to try to see whats UNDER the green somewhere. The pics i posted are a bit light due to my camera flash, but in natural light it's a solid medium olive color.

[1936 D2]

Are you sure the seat material in your car is not a Broadcloth instead of a Mohair? I was always under the impression that Mohair was one color per bolt (no stripes) - one pattern or no pattern. Single loop buttons were commonly used for trim and holding the Mohair upholstery in shape. Bob Scafani's door panels look like Mohair. Maybe I am "all wet" on this idea.

Edited March 17, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

If it is Broadcloth than it is not original. Book says Mohair for this year and model

BTW I saw a Broadcloth ( like Brians ) on a Nash ( maybe ) might be wrong about the make, that had a pattern so intricate that I wont forget easily.

I had never seen and prob. never will see a prettier fabric inside of a vehicle. Maybe I still have pict. somewhere but I dont know where.

Edited March 17, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Question to Bob Scafani. Does your car have the same striped mohair as mine? Could you post a close up pic of the pattern? Also, i'm still not convinced yet that my car was supposed to be blue black and cream. I could be wrong but the olive green paint still looks original to the car to me, along with the black pinstripe under the beltline. I'll be doing some more research to try to find a definetive answer to that. I'm going to try to see whats UNDER the green somewhere. The pics i posted are a bit light due to my camera flash, but in natural light it's a solid medium olive color.

I understand what you are trying to say Brian and I would serach it out for myself as you are doing but back then you REALLY did not have alot of choices and early literature states that was what was original for your car.

Wheels match that already

[Guest brian j]

Yes it's definitely a mohair, with a pretty long nap to boot. I just realized the pics make it look 2 dimensional, like broadcloth. That's why i'm having such a hard time accepting a replacement cloth, the cloth looks so good on that car. For they day, they really had some style.... And Jason, i'm keeping in mind what the colors SHOULD be on that car, but somethings nagging at me about this olive that needs more detective work.

[Guest 1930]

quote......... but somethings nagging at me about this olive that needs more detective work............thats the way to do it for sure cause you just never know

[Bob Scafani]

the blue paint is original and has been overpainted. it is clear in the photo of the trunk area edges. also could the number 8 PC 10666 be 3 PC 10666? that would make sense being the body number 3 passenger coupe 10666. I'll look at mine.

[Guest 1930]

Here's some pics of the mystery rear side windows. They look like they should be able to be lowered....... almost. You can see the strap in the slot at the base frame. In another pic i show the strap partially pulled out. I can see if the Dodge Brother had decided to use currently made parts to make a non- removable "convertible" coupe top. But it doesn't make sense to me they would build and install a lowering strap on a non functional window. They could have just as easily trimmed the non functioning window without a lowering strap. There probably is more to this than meets the eye......

Brian,Id be willing to bet that with some effort those windows will go up and down, I can see the channels on the sides and whiskers.

There has to be some sort of locking mechanism for the glass that would hold the glass up into position but I cant help you on where that might be.

[Guest 1930]

Here's a pic of the seat. It could very well be considered a 3 person coupe because of the width of the seat on the passenger side. They just wouldn't be able to fit 3 people of "my"size.

Like I had mentioned Brian, early D.B literature states that that capacity was changed from 2-3 paasenger affective with serial # 258458. This would be your car if memory serves me.

[Guest 1930]

Next, it was asked how much wood in the body, i think. There is actually quite a bit of wood in the body, some is original, and various pieces have also been replaced. I have attached some pics to give an idea of the overall amount of wood. In the past replacement of the wood there may have been changes to the species of wood used. I'm going to try to document the species of "confirmed" original wood, as i get into this thing, and i'll post that information in the future. A question i have????......Pictured is a piece of the original floor wood with a stamping 8 PC 10666 . It may be hard to read from the pic. Is there a significance of the stamping? The wood in the trunk is painted a yellow color, that i'm not sure yet if it was originally painted, or someones handiwork.

So that is a Fisher body Brian? Do you see a tag maybe lower cowl.

[Guest brian j]

Thanks Bob. Although it appeared to be the blue black around the trunk in the pics, i discovered the olive paint was actually painted over a brown oxide primer, which for certain wasn't available in the 1900's The black you see around the trunk is actually a "black" paint that was painted sometime prior to the olive, and also has a modern primer underneath. I was just looking in all the wrong places. After CAREFULLY (this time) looking the car over, i was able to find small sections of painted wood on the door frame that had what appeared to be original paint. I scraped off small pieces with a razor blade, and found underneath, a grayish white hue, but VERY thin to none could be seen. I'm assuming this could be a lead based primer, and may have somewhat absorbed into the wood. So i snorted the primer dust up my nose to see what would happen. JUST KIDDING!!!! I just wanted to see if you are paying attention!!! I have a twisted sense of humor, my wife tells me. At first it appeared black, but after compounding, it appeared to be a black color in poor light, but in sunlight, had a distinct DARK DARK blue hue. Probably the darkest blue i have ever seen. Is this how the original color was? It's a dark enough blue it could easily be mistaken for black in the shade. Anyway it now looks as if you are ALL right. Although i don't anticipate painting the car in the near future.......i am planning on painting the spoke wheels. Is there a modern paint that matches the proper wheel color? Also Bob, could you send a close up pic of your mohair seat pattern? I found after exhaustive research there is no mohair fabric available anywhere in this pattern. At this point i have found where most mohair today is being produced in places like the Netherlands, China,etc. This may be a fools errand, but i'm going to try to see if i can get this fabric re-produced in a limited quantity. I may find that i can get it done, but it will be cost prohibitive. I won't know unless i try.......and i'm just stubborn enough to do it.

[1936 D2]

Brian... Any possibility your seat fabric could be removed, professionally restored, then returned to the car? There may be places (like museums) that know of a process for deep cleaning and possibly repair that may be a better deal than having specific mohair created someplace overseas. A side benefit is it would still be "all original" once completed.

[Guest brian j]

Here's a pic of the body tag on the outside cowl area.

[Guest brian j]

I did clarify that in another post, i don't remember, which..... but my intent is to keep the seats intact, clean the fabric, and try to save it. But the seat back on the passenger side is pretty bad. I would be trying to get the cloth re-produced, and store enough of it away to re-do the seats in the future, but only if absolutely necessary, with enough extra cloth to repair the passenger seat back, as best i can, again, if necessary.

[Guest 1930]

Here's a pic of the body tag on the outside cowl area.

Thanks Brian for this, I have no idea where to begin with this but will try and dig up some info.