Oakland or Oldsmobile? Who was top dog?

[ford_1919]

I'm confused... It is my understanding that in the 1920's GM began adopting a marketing strategy that emphasized a tiering of cars in terms of price, features, and quality. So...Initially, which car, Oakland or Oldsmobile was considered "closer" to the Buick? I have a 1925 Oakland that from the information I have, cost more than the same body style/year of Oldsmobile - But didn't the Oldsmobile have more status than the Oakland? I've seen some references to the contrary, but can someone address my confusion. Perhaps this tiering approach took several years to work out as who would be perceived to be on top and closer to the Buick. Any insight is appreciated. :confused: Erik (ford_1919)

[poci1957]

Erik, I think it did take a little time to work out the system. It appears that in 1925 Oakland was positioned a little higher than Oldsmobile, a few old ads look like an Olds 2dr coach was advertised at $1065 and an Oakland $1465. Then in 1926 when the Pontiac came out it was positioned below Olds and was a big hit, outselling Oaklands and soon becoming the primary product for the division and firmly setting it's place below Olds and above Chevrolet.

You may be aware that Olds had a companion car too, the Viking, and Buick had the Marquette, both came out around 1929. I do not recall how they fit in, but there was a little overlap and those two did not last long.

[ford_1919]

Thank you very much for the reply. I'm finding this time in GM's history very interesting and I am working on my (quick and simple) response to people who ask "What the heck is an Oakland?" So far, most are just surprised that the car was a GM product. I've been reading about Alfred Sloan's influences and it does seem there was significant effort in tweeking the final details, especially where the companion car models would eventually fit in, or not... follow the sales trailsl. Speaking of history... Sad to think about it, but I wonder when we will have to say "Remember when GM made a car named a Pontiac? How about an Oldsmobile?" :eek: It's tough getting old!

[Guest]

I think you will find that in the beginning, April 1909 Oakland becomes completely under GM and at that time you already have is Buick and Olds. In 1910 Cadillac joins. Chevrolet comes in 1917 and Pontiac comes in 1926. Pontiac is a companion car to Oakland Like La Salle is to Cadillac. Later where La Salle folds back into Cadillac, Oakland does to opposite, it folds into Pontiac.

In 1921 GM hierarchy looks like this from a price stanpoint: Chevrolet 490,Chevrolet FB, Oakland six, Oldsmobile six, Oldsmobile eight,Buick six, Cadillac eight. also the Scripps-booth six. and Sheridan four. These last two will go away soon.

By 1925 it will look like this; Chevrolet four, Oldsmobile six, Oakland six, Buick Std six, Buick Master six, Cadillac eight cyls. But there were price gaps between Chevy and Olds and between Buick and Cadillac. Notice the order change between 1921 and 1925. The filling of these two gaps created La Salle and Pontiac. With the discontinued Oakland by 1931 Olds moves up slightly to fill the void from Oakland.

Don

[poci1957]

By 1925 it will look like this; Chevrolet four, Oldsmobile six, Oakland six, Buick Std six, Buick Master six, Cadillac eight cyls. But there were price gaps between Chevy and Olds and between Buick and Cadillac. Notice the order change between 1921 and 1925. The filling of these two gaps created La Salle and Pontiac. With the discontinued Oakland by 1931 Olds moves up slightly to fill the void from Oakland.

Don

That is all correct, Olds and Oakland were very close, the Olds started at slightly less money and Oakland ended up slightly higher.

Ford 1919, if you are interested, some of the best GM history of this era comes from the man himself; Alfred P Sloan's 1963 autobiography "My Years With General Motors" which should be easy to find in your local library system. A really interesting book, see what you think, Todd

Edited January 27, 2010 by poci1957 (see edit history)

[Guest]

Yes, yes. Another super book is the book about Willie Durant called the Dream Maker and the one I'm reading now "Chrome Colossus" by Ed Cray.

Funny I always thought until reading these books that Oakland was lower than (well it was at first) Olds.

Don

[Guest]

The answer to the question is both depending on place in time. Look at today. Pontiac-Olds and Oakland no more, I would have never thought my two favorites would be gone.

The question today is; Is this a indication of the middle class going away?, or a division (Chevrolet) that was allowed to invade into a higher class that was reserved for Pontiac and Olds.

One thing for sure, GM has thrown away the formula that worked.

Don

[poci1957]

The question today is; Is this a indication of the middle class going away?, or a division (Chevrolet) that was allowed to invade into a higher class that was reserved for Pontiac and Olds.

One thing for sure, GM has thrown away the formula that worked.

Don, you have hit the nail on the head here, a subject I have thought about a lot. As a student of both the current car world and the past I have been stunned at GM throwing away such a brilliant system that made it so successful for so long. Lots of people (who often know little) say there were too many models, badge engineering, etc, and there were, BUT......

Badge engineering also can provide economy of scale AND additional profit on the base car. Fisher Body had body sharing in place since the 1930s and it saved GM billions over the years. IMO the key was that the upgraded car had to be desirable enough to make the customer see the value of the upgrade. The Oldsmobile had to make the customer WANT to spend the extra money to upgrade, and thus it's image was also maintained as the upgrade car.

IMO in the 1990s people "traded up" on everything else, clothes, home appliances, etc, and Olds and Pontiac should have been ripe for growth. But they weren't. The cars did not command enough additional prestige to make the system work, and they should have.....it had worked in the 1970s and 1980s very well with Cutlass Supremes and such.

The other problem was GMs rampant layoffs and early retirements. They merged divisions to eliminate overlap and factories and soon enough no one including the division General Manager knew what a Pontiac's identity was. And if they did know they did not have enough manpower or clout to make hotter products happen (where are you John DeLorean?).

So look at what we have now. There is a Camaro but no Firebird, because GM would not spend an extra $200 million to market one. It could have revitalized the whole Pontiac division, but the lady General Manager did not have the power or vision to fight for one. So 80 years of history and a nameplate that somehow still has some street cred dies. Olds is long gone. Buick is a shadow of what it was when my grandfather found prestige in an Electra 225. Pathetic.