Insurance Values, Are they realistic?

[Tacoma]

I've observed the dialog of many of our members who have had insurance problems after an accident in trying to determine an equitable payout. It would be interesting to know from what documents the insurance companys are using as a basis for the values and the payouts. IE: are they using some internal document that only they have access to. I know they do when repairs are involved, but total value may be another thing like the local Kelly Blue book, NADA or something else.

I post this mainly that it should be an important aspect of what we should be (AS THE BCA and REATTA DIVISION)focusing our efforts on. As a Reatta collector I believe the values to be more in line with "Blacks, Cars of particular interest, or thoes listed in Cars That Matter". The questions I have are: 1. What documents are presently used by the insurance company's, 2. Why are they taken to be more valid than what we feel they should be from the later books above. 3. How do we get the insurance compainy's to use the higher values. It is obvious that either the company's documents are wrong or Cars that matter or Black is wrong. It might behove us to form some type of an official committee as an official arm of the BCA and form an attack plan and challange them (Ins Co's, and all the Books as to the validity of their data, and let them justify their numbers. Sometimes the court of public opinion carries weight, especially when you challange someone as to their credability. Everyone can't be right, given the spread in the numbers.

IS THIS A FIGHT WORTH FITING? Your thoughts please.

Jerry in Tacoma

[Booreatta]

Jerry I have both of my cars insured with Grundy with and agreed value policy with no deductable. The cars are always garaged and are not driven daily. I have never had a claim so I cant tell what they would do but they would be on the hook for the agreed value. most of the issues with ins companys come from daily drivers. With a car as nice as yours I would look for an agreed value policy

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I'm interested in this too. I can't get collector car insurance from like Grundy, cuz they're figure I'm not old enough and/or I drive my car too much (like 20k miles a year). I do keep full coverage on it with State Farm though

[wwebb]

For what it is worth, I recently had another older car that was struck while it was parked and the insurance company totaled the vehicle. They determined the value not by looking at any appraisal guides such as NADA or KBB, they found others for sale in my state with similiar mileage and said that was the value. In reality, it was low but it was not worth the fight in that instance.

[Guest tomt]

I did not go with Grundy or a similar firm because I had a loss (my flammable TR-6) within 5 years. I found that Farmers has a collectable division, where I carry my agreed value policy. They are not comparable in price to Grundy, but they were within my own current insurance. State Farm may have such a division, talk your agent.

[Tacoma]

Thanks guy's for the comments. I suspect that if you have an agreed value that there are a number of restrictions that go along with that type of policy. To understand agreed value policies better could you list some of these restrictions if any. I have heard that some not only restrict milage but also the type of driving done, IE: Only to and from a car show, or emergency or if your primary vehicle is broke down or to a repair facility. Must be a locked garage; No other drivers but YOU. But what if you'r in an accident on a sunday afternoon and you decide to have let your wife drive the 50 miles home because you had a little too much to drink. are you covered. The question is what happens to your coverage if you violate any of these restrictions? Will your insurance tell you to go pound sand.

I have coverage on my 90 vert with Geico along with my other two cars so I don't worry about these agreed value restrictions, but I do worry about how they would value my car.I have a call in to Geico now asking them not only to tell me my value, but also how they would arrive at it.

I would think that if we all aked the same questions that our answers would be very interesting and varied. Lets all call and see what they say.

[Roadster90]

TACOMA....good thread sir. We that care, really do need to research to become MORE informed in this / these area/s....AND NO, Insurance values are not realistic or FAIR. I was just proposed a value of $3293.58 as a total loss figure that included licensing and tax. Now if I wanted to keep my coupe there would be a $450.00 deduction for salvage leaving me with a wrecked vehicle and $2843.58 cash to repair it with. The vehicle in question is almost pristine. Realistic >>> Fair ..... not hardly IMHO. I of course and did not accept the offer and will fight.....I will keep the forum informed.

Would like to see this thread, and the one have have going to continue....on the thread I have going presently, there are multible EXCELLENT / NOTEWORTHY and greatly appreciated replies.

[Booreatta]

Jerry there are some restrictions and here they are

Cars must be kept in a locked garage

no drivers under the age of 25

there in no mileage restrictions

the actual policy states the the cars must be used in exhibitions, parades, club activities of other functions of public interest or to and from club functions. It also covers the cars of trips to the Nationals

and it is not used for regular day to day driving, and you have back up transportation for day to day

there is also towing for trip interruption coverage and glass breakage

I insure both cars for less that $400.00 a year. and my wife and drive one anytime she wants to and she told me to say that

[Tacoma]

UP-DATE

I just returned from my local Geico adjustors facility,and having spoke with Andy, The head adjuster, Here is the essance of our 45 min conversation. Washing state (and I assume other) requires that insurance companies use outside (third party) adjustment figures. They do this by using the repair and value figures supplied to them by a national company called "CCC Information Service Group Inc" out of Chicago. Web site CCCIS.COM. CCC supplies their service to over 350 insurance companies and 15,000 Collision centers nation wide. CCC is an ackronim (sic) for Certified Collateral Corporation. The have 2 basic data programs they sell. The first is a system called "CCC Value scope for the basic value of an automobile and the other is CCC Pathways for the cost of parts and labor.

Andy stated that when a vehicle comes in an adjuster looks at the vehicle to determine the parts needed plus labor and when a vehicle gets to the point that it's close to the vehicle value figure (He didn't give a percentage figure) then it's considered a total loss. At this point they don't take into consideration condition or milage.

The adjuster will then get into the "Judgement Area" This is where he looks at milage and condition. He says they look at the local market for like replacement vehicles. NOTE: He did say something interesting though about CCC. He said that they pull a lot of their "Auto Values" from Auto Trader. as their source, I asked him whether it was AT's asking or the actual sold price, and he said their figures were based on the published asking prices. As you know Auto Trader is based on a mix of private and dealer listings,and the dealer listings have profit built into them a little more than a private asking price. One would think that these prices would tend to reflect a higher value.

We then got into the Reatta Arena. He had never seen one. We got to talking about NADA,KBB,Black's, and my "Cars that matter " book which I happened to have with me along with my Photo alblum of my Reattawhich I showed him and we talked about. When looking at values He said that none of these books come into play, ONLY CCC.

We talked about how Customer and Adjuster values differ many times and that many cases wind up in court. He and I both understand these things.

His bottom line is this: Adjusters are willing to negotiate with you but you have to have back-up data to do it. His recommendation is this: If you have a vehicle you feel is worth more than the figures in the CCC system you need documentation whereby you can prove your position. This would include Detailed Recent photos that are dated.(Some cameras have dating capability).Or possibly from a recent car show.They must be detailed and clean enough to show all aspects of the vehicle inside and out. Low usage must be proved, possibly from oil change receipts, or repair recipts from others. Awards and or Trophy's. In other words YOU must provide proof that it was an exceptional vehicle and worth more than what they could provide you.

Regarding Salvave value he said you have an option. They will pay you what an agreed value less the salvage value. This is determined thusly: You both agree that the value of your 1990 Reatta Coupe is $7,400. He says they call around to the salvage auction yards (Here it's Coparts)Coparts will hold the vehicle for auction or make a determanation as to an estimated auction value. Lets say it's $1,800. The insurance company will then offer you a check for $7,400. or a check for $5,600. and you keep your reatta.

Summary: It seems as though CCC is the big player in this game. Also I like the idea of a simple letter from an attorney, but you wou shoukd be prepared to give your attorney the same data. IE photos etc to prove your case. I would be interested to see postings on what you all have found out. Jerry

[Tacoma]

Chuck

Sounds like my wife. Is Helen a good driver? HaHa, But would you be covered to the local market, or what if an accident were your fault. Wouldn't you be hung out to dry in the Kansas sun?

Jerry

[Booreatta]

Jerry I am not sure I will have to get out the policy, you raise some interesting points. I will check how to handle things if I am on the road> More later

[Guest DAVESWF]

I have my 90 low-mileage convertible insured with Hartford. I do drive the car most days ( when I am in FL) but mostly short trips, with less than 1,000 miles/yr. I tried Grundy, they told me they would not insure a 'daily driver', and would not insure the car if there were 2 drivers in the house and only one 'other' car (since my wife and I both drive, we would need the REATTA and 2 other cars).

When I contacted Hartford, they said they would insure it for whatever amount I wanted (and of course I would have to pay more), as long as I had an up-to-date appraisal and current pictures of the car proving it's value. I also save ebay listings when a similar car sells for 'big bucks'.

[Guest TommyH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nic walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TACOMA....good thread sir. We that care, really do need to research to become MORE informed in this / these area/s....AND NO, Insurance values are not realistic or FAIR. I was just proposed a value of $3293.58 as a total loss figure that included licensing and tax. Now if I wanted to keep my coupe there would be a $450.00 deduction for salvage leaving me with a wrecked vehicle and $2843.58 cash to repair it with. The vehicle in question is almost pristine. Realistic >>> Fair ..... not hardly IMHO. I of course and did not accept the offer and will fight.....I will keep the forum informed.

Would like to see this thread, and the one have have going to continue....on the thread I have going presently, there are multible EXCELLENT / NOTEWORTHY and greatly appreciated replies.

</div></div>

Wow, mine was just some hail damage, almost 160,000, and not too good, but they gave me $3900. Then again, if I wanted to keep the car, it was $1400. there was no damage what so ever to the glass.

[Tacoma]

Some very good replies folks, Keep the comments and information coming, especially ones regarding what the insurance company's are telling you. The more we know of how they operate the better armed we are to fight for better compensation; and better we know what type of coverage and in what amount is needed on our part. Jerry