Fred Zwicker
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Posts posted by Fred Zwicker
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I am doing a body-off restoration of my '54 Buick Special Riviera 2dr. Hard Top and have the complete differential, axle and drive-shaft off the car. It has been cleaned up and ready to repaint. In cleaning up the rear-end, noticed that the area of the front side of the center part was painted red oxide. My mechanic said that GM used to get the parts from outside sources and that he has seen this before and that it should be painted the same (red oxide) to be technically correct. The rear side of the pumpkin is black. We also noticed a very small amount of red oxide paint on the closed drive shaft, but not sure if this should be semi-gloss black enamel or the red oxide. There are also two angle struts - assume these were black ??
I am also wondering about the correct color of the brake backing plates. Most paint them black, along with the frame, but others say these were zinc or cadmium plated or even unpainted (not black). Any ideas on this?
As we are going to paint this soon, could use some advice. See pictures. Thanks,
Fred
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I doubt if Soda Blasting will do much, as any type of blasting does not work well in removing anything soft, such as undercoating, or in this case the tar paper. Soda breaks up on impact and cannot be re-used, so even if it did work on the tar paper, it would be extremely expensive. I have years of experience with abrasive blasting and can assure you that I am correct in my observation.
I have run into the same thing on the tar paper, which I like to remove so that the sections inside the door and especially on the floor boards and inner trunk panels can be taken down to at least close to bare metal and painted as was done originally, and also to be sure there is no rust or holes under the tar paper. Once in awhile I get lucky and the paper pulls off easily. Most times I have to use a putty knife or old screwdriver and pry the stuff off, followed by a wire brush and sometimes by a rotary wire brush. After that, I use solvent to wash down the entire surface. Once I get the tar paper and crud off and have the areas primed and repainted, I like to add a stick-on type sound deadener to keep things nice and quiet - this is inside the doors, floorboards and inside the trunk. The carpet and trunk lining covers the sound deadener, which does not show.
Using a heat gun to remove the tar paper might be better than a propane torch, as it is not a good idea to use the torch method around the gas tank. I try to stay away from using a torch in a body shop environment, as there are too many hazards in the area. I also have fire extinguishers in our shop at all times.
In my opinion, there is not an easy answer.
Fred
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OK Fred, Black over Gray it is. Not sure about Mick, but I can live with it.
Be reminded that the full name is Gull Gray Metallic. What you may have had mixed thus far may not have had any metal flake added?? Metalic paint always helps with colors such as gray to help brighten and reveal and show off any contours such as the arched fenders and the rear fender contour that follows the sweep spear on your Special. So it will be important to insure the paint has the correct size metal flake in it. Too big of a flake will definitely set it off as being incorrect though. I am attaching a scan of a large Gull Gray paint chip. If you need to borrow it let me know and I'll git r to ya. Also attaching a picture of a Gull Gray Metallic estate wagon.
And I too would encourage you to leave the original data plate with the car. There is no problem whatsoever with the original 01 code showing. And also,these colors are very hard to get just right. I have never heard of points being taken off when a paint is just a shade off of original,either dark or light.
Agreed on all counts - I will be doubly sure to specify Gull Gray Metallic, although yesterday for the first time, I opened the one pint can from Automotive Touchup and did a test section (with small artist brush). I am sure it was metallic, but will probably do a spray test tomorrow to be doubly sure before ordering in a gallon. I have the can on my computer desk at home and the label says, "Basecoat GMC 05", which according to my research is correct. I will also be sure to specify that the metallic not be too big of a flake. I ran into this same issue when painting my '39 LaSalle convertible in Oxblood Maroon in 2007-2008, so know exactly what you are talking about. That car won a 1st place Senior at the CLC Grand Nationals and at Glenmoor in 2008, as well as Best of Show at the Cleveland Regioinal show in 2009, so must have been OK. For the Buick, the original data plate will be left on the car, as suggested, as well as saving about $250-$300 Buick Dollars (as you say.)
I know that you have been pushing for all black and appreciate the pictures that you sent separately. Having Mick Jagger singing his song almost pushed me over the edge, as the Rolling Stones are my favorite all-time group. However, even if Mick Jagger paid me a personal visit, he still couldn't convince me, as for previously stated reasons, I just don't like an all-black car - in fact had the car been all black when first found, doubt if I would have purchased it. When you see a Darney paint job with the gray and black top you will forget all about black - I promise. Also pictures will be sent to you as the job progresses. I guess the first step later this week will be to flip the car on our rotissierie and remove the undercoating and paint and spray the Gull Gray on the underside of the body and the fire wall. This will get things moving - we have a long way to go.
More pictures of this restoration can be seen at Tip Plus Corp. dba Tp Tools & Equipment | Facebook Arrow down to the pictures of the '54 Buick restoration.
Fred
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Thanks for your thoughts Bob.
I appreciate your research on this and will consider this advice. Yesterday I stopped at work after the big Canfield car show and flea market (found not one thing for a '54 Buick and there were plenty of parts). I drove my 1947 Ford Convertible to and from the show onFriday and Saturday and drove back in the rain. A very big show this year - seemed almost as busy as Carlisle.
After leaving the show yesterday, I stopped at work to check out my two actual paint samples of '54 Buick Gull Gray. We had a local guy mix the 1st color sample, and it looked like Grainger steel shelving gray, so we were discouraged. However I had another 1 pint sample from Automotive Touchup.com (New Orleans) and it seemed to be quite different from the first sample and seemed to be very nice - appropriate for the car. I have a feeling that the first sample was made up "by eye" based on the original color chip and the second sample was made from the original formula - their invoice said, "GMC, ALL MODELS, 05-Gull Grey Met".
I am convinced that if we go with a gray/black combination, the gray must be an original '54 Buick color, even though undoubtedly their are other metallic grays that might look better. If we were doing a quick paint job, it may not have mattered as much, but with a body-off restoration it seems as if I have no choices, other than all black, which I do not like. In fact, had the car been even a perfect all-black color when I found the car, I would probably have not made the purchase. The gray/black combination was so striking that I bought the car on the spot. Not being familiar with the '54 Buick color combinations, thought that the color was correct, as it looked period correct, but later determined that it was not the correct gray color offered in 1954.
So here is my plan - Carlsbad Black top and Gull Gray entire bottom of car, which would be an original choice in 1954. Not sure of the cowl tag issue as yet, but will try to do some more research. Area below side trim will remain gray. After a year or two, if I still feel that the black in that area is necessary, this can be done in our shop in one or two days, as not necessary to dismantle the car as it is at present. Picture shown below is about what I should expect.
Fred
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Thanks again for the assistance - everyone has been a big help. My plan (as of now, but subject to last-minute change) is to paint the car a factory combination of gull gray on entire bottom of the car and black roof. The Black/Gray/Black was on the car when purchased and I have not had anyone not like that combination, but in spite of preferring that choice, am leaving the black off under the side trim, as was not a choice in 1954 (was a choice in 1955).
After driving it awhile and possibly showing it, could always add the black below the trim in one day in our shop, but probably won't miss the black once car is completed.
I plan to order a new plate on Monday, but can someone give me a little guidance on what numbers mean on my plate at present and what numbers should be furnished (unless Trim Tags already knows).
Fred
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Thanks Checker and Steve earlier, who also mentioned changing the cowl tag to match the paint selection - You are both correct. And I am incorrect in my heading of my post, mentioning Vin Plate (should have said cowl tag or cowl plate).
On the '54 Buick the Vin # is on the frame (I found it yesterday) and is stamped on a small tag attached to the driver's side door jamb (towards front of car). The cowl tag is attached to the passenger side of the cowl up high on the curved part of the firewall.
If I end up painting the car a combination of black top over gull gray (which I believe to be a correct and available color combination for a 1954 Buick), I will probably want to have the cowl tag corrected to suit.
Does anyone know who I can contact to have this done? Attached is a picture of my existing cowl tag (not the Vin # tag). Maybe someone can clear up what the numbers and letters mean.
Thanks, Fred
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I seldom sell a car, but when I do so, if I am rubbed the wrong way by a potential buyer, I back off quickly. I once sold a 61 Continental convertible at a very friendly price to a young fellow many years ago who was sweating when he counted out the money, telling me it was the most expensive car he had ever bought, but he wanted it so badly. After he handed me the money, I counted out $500 and handed it to him, telling him "Here is your $500 rebate". Had he tried to chisel me, I wouldn't have even sold him the car, let alone given a "rebate". That was about 30 years ago and he still has the car.
One other time after selling my 1939 LaSalle 4-door about 35 years ago, a young fellow stopped in at work, asking if I had any extra parts, as he was restoring a 39 LaSalle coupe. I had a complete 3 pc. grille, original Cadillac heater and some other good stuff and gave him everything for $45. Years later he stopped in at our tent at Hershey and showed me pictures of the car and thanked me for my help. This made my day, as it sure is nice to help fellow restorers, especially those who are starting in the hobby.
Over the years, have had cases where parts were sent to me without charge, to help me out and I have done the same for others. Not everyone is in this hobby for the money. We need to help the younger guys in every way that we can. Sometimes I have had times when I bought a part or parts and was told to just send whatever I though was a fair price. I can tell you that in that case, I probably sent more than what the seller would have asked for, so as to be fair to those who offer help. It's only a hobby.........
Fred
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Thanks for all of the interesting input.
My plan (if I stay with the black/gray combination) would be to paint the top black and the body metallic gray, including gray below the side trim. If it looks good with black top and gray bottom, that will be close to the what was an original option in 1954 so should be a good compromise. If it doesn't look as good as before we started, or needs some help, the area below the side trim can be painted black to match the posted pictures, even though not an option in 1954. We have a full-time restoration shop at work and can easily make this change in one day - not a big deal.
I am builiding this for my wife, and neither of us likes a black car, but so many keep telling me that I should stay with the color on the Vin plate (all black). I have seen pictures of the same car in all black and it looks great, but when a black car gets dusty it doesn't look so hot, not to mention the difficulties in keeping it in showroom condition.
At work we have a small car museum (www.tpcarcollection.com) and many people visit. Of all cars on display, the gray/black 1954 Buick has always been most everyone's favorites as they love the color combination, even though that car was one of the lowest cost vehicles on display. That will change once the restoration is completed, as costs are soaring.
I really appeciate all of the comments on this and am looking forward to posting pictures of the car when completed.
Fred
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Buying a car from a friend is really tough. I have a friend who buys antiques and one trick that he often uses with smile on his face after some negitiationg - "Can you come up with a friendlier price"? This is a nice way of saying that the price is too high, without hurtring anyone's feelings.
One thing that I sometimes do when buying smaller items at a flea market or antique mall is to inquire about the price from a vendor several times, trying to get to the bottom line if possible. Then just before leaving, stop at seller's booth one more time with car keys in one hand and cash in the other, telling seller that you have to leave, but if he (the seller) will take $XXX you will take it now. This works more often than you might think.
If buying a car and the deal is a really good one, best to furnish a cash deposit on the spot and write up a receipt, bringing the balance as soon as possible. It is surprising how a great deal can turn out to be a no deal once seller's relatives hear about the car being sold, or if a better offer comes along. Often a seller will say, "I don't need a deposit - your word is good" Don't go for this - give a deposit and write up a receipt. Seller can still refund your deposit if a better offer comes along, but most will not do so.
Last week I was at the car corral at Carlisle and there was a nice 1929 Model A Tudor for sale at a fair price. I waited about an hour for the seller and when he arrived (unfortunately) there were several others looking hard at the car and also waiting for the seller. I immediately mentioned that I was interested in the car, but could we discuss it without an audience. So we walked some distance away and made the deal. Imagine how things would have deteriorated had someone else barged in and topped my offer by even $100. Atached are pictures of the Model A which we will be converting into a vintage police car to join our 1931 Chevrolet vintage taxi cab.
See www.tpcarcollection.com for more pictures of our cars in Canfield, Ohio.
Fred
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I am doing a body-off restoration of a 1954 Buick Riviera Special 2dr. hard top. I am debating about the body color, which previously was medium metallic gray with black top and black under the front fender and door side trim. Painting the bottom lower part (below side trim) of a '54 Buick black (or any other color) was not a correct option in 1954., although is often done, as it looks good.
In spite of being the incorrect color combination, I have never ever received so many compliments on a car. We have a car museum at work, and even though this car was the lowest cost in the group, it is most everyone's favorite. It looked so good that I was hoping to stay with the same color combo. However the Vin plate shows car was originally all black and I have a picture of the car when it was black, which is attached and which I do not like. I am not at all a fan of black paint, and is also so hard to maintain, but now that we are going so far, am thinking that to match the Vin Plate (all black) we should consider going that route. We can handle the necessary block sanding and buffing for a black car, but I still do not like black. Several pictures of the car in the previous gray/black combination are attached for comparison purposes.
My preference would be to paint the car a metallic gray close to the original gull gray (which no one locally can match so far) and a black top, with no black below the side trim. so as to be close to an optional original color combination in 1954. Even though this black/gray would not match the Vin plate, it could have been ordered that way in 1954. Is this normally acceptable, or does it drastically lower the value of the car? While I seldom have time for serious judging, does a paint that does not match the Vin Plate result in lost points vs. the exact original paint color?
So I guess I am trying to figure out is if the car is painted in a black/gray combination that I really prefer and that was an optional color combination from Buick in 1954 (gray with black top) does this lower the value over going with a color that I do not like (all black)?
I sure could us some input on this color issue, as we will be starting the painting process in about a week. See pictures of this restoration at Facebook - Enter TP Tools \ facebook. Body is off and frame ready for paint - many pictures on Facebook in addition to the attached.
Thank you for your ideas and comments,
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Still Looking - I thought I found one, but it turned out to be a "dead-end". Here is the story in a nutshell.
I am doing a "body off"restoration on my '54 Buick Special 2dr. Riviera Hard Top with a 264 cubic inch V8 engine. I am changing the car over to power steering and recently located power steering gear and pump, but no dual-groove crank shaft pulley. This pulley was used ONLY on 1954 & 1955 Buick Specials and not on the Buick Super, Century or Roadmaster, as those have a larger engine. It was used ONLY on Buick Specials that had power steering, as the second groove ran the power steering belt to the steering pump. Somewhat rare, but they are out there.
A friend from the '54 Buick Forum generously sent me a pulley from his car that is going to be restored in about a year, based on the hope that either he or I can locate a pulley to replace the one that he sent for my restoration. So far, lots of leads, but no luck as yet.
I am willing to pay $200 + incoming freight for this pulley. Attached is a picture of the pulley that is needed. Note that it does not have a harmonic balancer. Maybe someone on this forum knows of a Buick Special with 264 engine sitting in a junk yard or somewhere that will have this pulley. Hoping that I can come up with this pulley for my friend. Thanks,
Fred
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Still Looking - I thought I found one, but it turned out to be a "dead-end". Here is the story in a nutshell.
I am doing a "body off"restoration on my '54 Buick Special 2dr. Riviera Hard Top with a 264 cubic inch V8 engine. I am changing the car over to power steering and recently located a power steering gear and pump, but no dual-groove crank shaft pulley. This pulley was used ONLY on 1954 & 1955 Buick Specials and not on the Buick Super, Century or Roadmaster, as those have a larger engine. It was used ONLY on Buick Specials that had power steering, as the second groove ran the power steering belt to the steering pump. Somewhat rare, but they are out there.
A friend from the '54 Buick Forum generously sent me a pulley from his car that is going to be restored in about a year, based on the hope that either he or I can locate a pulley to replace the one that he sent for my restoration. So far, lots of leads, but no luck as yet.
I am willing to pay $200 + incoming freight for this pulley. Attached is a picture of the pulley that is needed. Note that it does not have a harmonic balancer. Maybe someone on this forum knows of a Buick Special with 264 engine sitting in a junk yard or somewhere that will have this pulley. Hoping that I can come up with this pulley for my friend. Thanks,
Fred
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Here is a picture of what I am looking for, but am almost certain that I have one coming in form out of state.
Fred
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Thanks a lot Ron for your concise information. I am still looking........
Fred
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Thanks for the idea Ron,
We were going to go that route in the first place when we found it so difficult to locate the correct pulley. My friend already brought the correct pulley to Charlotte last week, so we are set to go, but if any unexpected issues come up, will go with your idea. Not necessarily a judging issue, but this car is such a nice original that I kind of want to keep it as close as possible.
Attached is a picture of the car taken last summer, prior to our restoration which is now underway. It will be a beauty.
In the meantime, am still looking for a replacement pulley for my friend...
Fred
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Thanks a lot for your ideas Ron,
We have a real good mechanic in our restoration shop that suggested something similar if we could not locate an original dual-groove crank pulley. His idea was to change either the alternator pulley (car was changed from generator to alternator by previous owner), or the water pump pulley from a single groove to a dual-groove and rig up another belt to run the power steering pump. While this might take some doing, he felt it would work. I am planning on changing the altenator to an alternator that looks like a generator anyhow, so could go this route.
In the meantime, one of my friends on this forum has the correct pulley that he will be needing in about a year or so and is lending me his pulley until we can locate an original one, so we are both looking and hope to get lucky somehow. Now this is what you call a true hobbiest and friend!
The dual-groove pulley from the larger V8 engine has a harmonic balancer so will not work and therefore only the crank pulley from a '54 or '55 Special will work. The '54 and '55 Buick Century, Super and Special models all had the large engine with the harmonic balancer. To compound the problem, back in 1954 if a customer wanted power steering he often would simply move up to a Century, Super or Roadmaster, so there are few of the dual-groove pulleys anywhere.
Attached is a picture of the dual-groove pulley that we needand thanks to everyone for taking the time to read this post and for looking.
Still hoping to get lucky.........
Fred
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The pulley that I need fits only the 1954 Buick Special and 1955 Buick Special with the 264 engine. The Buick Century has the larger engine and the crank pulley is different.
Thanks however - sure appreciate it.
Fred
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Thanks Stealthbob for the update and reason this part is so hard to find. I normally would not worry about power steering, but this car is being restored for my wife, who just loves the '54 Buick (she has good taste), and she would have a hard time with manual steering. As for myself, I have had major rotator cuff problems in the past and driving a car without power steering is taking a chance that I must avoid. Last time I pulled out my shoulder I was out of commission for 2-3 weeks and ended up going to therapy for 2 months (not fun).
During my high school and college days, all of my cars had manual steering and I never even thought much about it. Times change......
Fred
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What about a 55 super ? When I go hit the junk yard here I think there was a couple 55 specials but cant remember if engines were in them but will look Jeff
According to Mr. Earl and my research, this pulley is ONLY on the 1954 Buick Special and probably the 1955 Special. It will be on a car that has power steering. Sometimes the horn button will say "Power Steering" The Super had the larger engine and this pulley fits ONLY the 264 cubic inch engine. Thanks a lot for checking on this Jeff - greatly appreciated.
Fred
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will a 54 century work? I think I have one Jeff jthdpanhead@yahoo.com
Thank you Jeff,
According to Mr. Earl, only the 54 or 55 Special dual-groove pulley will work. The Century had a larger engine and different pulley and it will not interchange, but thanks much for the help. Mr. Earl has the correct one and maybe he can post a picture. I appreciate the help and advice that is being offered. Thanks!
Fred
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Yes - A big thanks to Mr. Earl. I have been in contact with Lamar, and he is going to furnish his pulley so I can install my engine, as it is in process of a rebuilding. However, he is doing this as a favor, and later he will be needing the same pulley, so I am still actively attempting to purchase this pulley to replace his pulley when he needs it next year.
As I understand it, this pulley fits only a 1954 Buick 264 engine and possibly a 1955 Buick 264 engine. This engine was used on the Buick Special, as it had a smaller engine than the Roadmaster and possibly other models. I located a 1955 Buick Roadmaster locally, but it had the larger engine and different crank pulley, so could not use. It is possible (not easy) to have the longer steering column shaft shortened, but the 1954 dual-groove pulley is still needed, unless the larger Roadmaster engine is installed. I could have done this, but want to keep my car original, so am staying with the 264 cubic engine that was in the car when new.
I am in process of having the original 264 engine completely rebuilt at this time and having it bored .030 oversize, as needed this. Actually the engine had good compression, ran well and had good oil pressure, but had what we first thought was a wrist pin knock. After being disassembled, found it had one bent and also one worn out push rod, two bad lifters and wear to the cam, so decided to go all the way with both the engine and Dyanflow, which was leaking badly and is now being rebuilt locally.
Often a seller has the entire setup (power steering column and gear box, pump and of course the pulley). This is OK, but is heavy, long and difficult to ship. I am willing to do whatever I can to replace Mr. Earl's pulley, so hope that I can locate this sometime in the near future.
Attached are pictures showing the car last summer (before) and now after we pulled the engine. Lots of work ahead, including a new paint job, chrome to be replated and some minor issues - otherwise a complete and original car.
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I am doing a restoration on my 1954 Buick Special Hard Top and am changing from manual to power steering. I have a power steering unit and pump, but need a dual-groove cast iron crank pulley for the 264 engine. Will pay more than a reasonable price, and am offering a $50 finder's fee if someone can route me to a source. Thanks,
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I am doing a restoration on my 1954 Buick Special Hard Top and am changing from manual to power steering. I have a power steering unit and pump, but need a dual-groove cast iron crank pulley for the 264 engine. Will pay more than a reasonable price, and am offering a $50 finder's fee if someone can route me to a source. Thanks,
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Didn't GM have a 'five car minimum' requirement for custom colors at some point? At least in the later 1970s and into the '80s?
I don't know about afterwards, but can say for sure that I ordered my B1970 Buick in a custom color and it was a "one off". No one said anything about a minimum and they took my order gladly at a reasonable extra cost.
Fred
Paint color on Differential of GM cars
in Technical
Posted
Thanks Jim - my mechanic is positive that the part should be red oxide, per my picture previously posted. Your post substantiates this. In the meantime, my friend (Mr. Earl) just sent the attached pictures of the backing plates in golden cad plating. Lots of things to see in these pictures. We are trying to finsh the frame and rear end tomorrow, so appreciate the help.
Fred