TG57Roadmaster
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Posts posted by TG57Roadmaster
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The Chrysler Building in 1986 taken from the roof of the U.N. Secretariat Building, looking west. The brown box in foreground is the Ford Foundation HQ, and 42nd Street is on left. There are better pix of the Chrysler, but from that perpective, it was the center of Manhattan.
That's some big ol' Chrysler!
Tom Gibson
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Longest Chrysler production car? The Chrysler-built '56 Crown Imperial Limousine, on a lengthy 149.5" WB, LOA 242.5". They continued those dimensions thru the Ghia-built '57-'63's (though none for '62), but I don't have data on the '64 & '65; will edit this when I find it.
As for Cadillacs, the '76 Fleetwood Limo and Sedan rode on a heroic 151.5" WB, with LOA 252.7".
Big American Cars!
Tom Gibson
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Aaron,
Being around when they were new isn't a requirement, by any means. Just appreciating them for what they are is what counts. As a generalist, I tend to like all cars, but prefer either really large or very small ones. Take this '65 Mustang 2+2 that recently surfaced here. It's been in my town since new, a one-owner, original, striking beauty...odd that I'd never seen it before, but it's been stashed away by the lady who bought it, out of sight.
If I could, I'd make it mine, though some of more elitist my friends would think I'd gone mad.
The interior is as sweet as they come. All told, the car has a lovely 80K mile patina that needs no more than a good detailing.
Thanks for the good words,
Tom Gibson
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It's a snowy night by the fire, brandy and cigars have been passed around; Let the war stories begin.
Recently, I spent a day at an important collection to clarify some discrepancies to get the vehicles legal, and just, with the DMV. I'd brought my travelling archive for the job. After a day deciphering and decoding, one of the most egregious errors was with a '39 ----- Convertible Coupe, purchased at a reputable auction that had a 1941 (different make, but fits) engine in it. According to the company, all the cars presented that day were Numbers Matching. In the scheme of things, if these folks can't be relied upon to take the half hour we did just to find that one wrong engine number, in whom can we trust? My friends love the car, but in the sainted words of Mammy in "Gone With The Wind"..."It ain't fittin', it jess ain't fittin'".
Why get into this area of interest if you're only looking at dollar signs? Is it worthy to pull the wool over some poor (or rich) schmoe's eyes just so the auction, sale, or raffle can improve your bottom line?
I read an excellent letter years ago in "Old Cars Weekly"; an old gent had been at a show where the owner of a '61 Ford Starliner, completely restored to Factory New, was PO'd 'cause he didn't win Best of Show trophy. Yet another 5-foot plastic dust collector, no doubt. Oh, it had all the right numbers, rubber stamp dates, hot and cold blowing kazoos, but I wondered, if it's so bloody factory-correct, where'd he fit the assembly line and body drop to do the job right. Hmmm, River Rouge out on the back 40?
To which the wise old man replied..."I DRIVE my trophy; turns heads wherever I go".
Words to live by in my playbook. Attached is one of my trophies, and there are only a few. You don't have to like her; she's not for sale. The Roadmistress, my '57 Roadmaster Model 73 Riviera Sedan. In my 15 years of stewardship, she's been all over the eastern half of the U.S., on her bias-ply tires, with her rechromed rear bumper and new, correct interior. Other than the usual (high) maintenance items, the rest is the way she came from the plant in Atlanta, and I wouldn't want her any other way. All 135K miles, and all her little flaws.
Time for another log on the fire,
Tom Gibson
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You realize that the New Yorker version and Imperial 8 are virtually identical, save for interior trim & nameplates? Wheelbase, dimensions, and engines are the same between the Chrysler you seek and the Imperial. Egads, why have a New Yorker when you could do the Imperial?
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Greetings DandyDaves,
Perhaps this may illustrate the way you'd feel about your 1915 C-36. It's from the 1914 Buick DELCO Instruction Book (I don't have the '15 version, sorry). First, Assume The Position, then follow the instructions CAREFULLY!
Always,
Tom Gibson
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This '33 Pontiac 8 is an example for discussion. Rod or Restore? It was among the many affordable treasures at Charlotte AutoFair this past April, priced at @ $8500. Its condition was way worse than the '35 Buick above, but certainly a candidate for preservation. Dollarwise, you'd need to spend alot to get it done either way. You decide.
Remember the Great Crash of '89, when all the chaps who'd sunk their 401K's and kid's college funds into the Old Car Market? Overnight, their $2,000,000 Ferraris were worth 1/4 or 1/5th the auction price paid. I squealed gleefully at the thought that maybe they'd get back to investing in real estate or Kruggerands, and leave the hobby alone.
Thank all the village idiots who watch Speedvision in January and see the beautiful, over-restored Classic Gizmos cross the block. Suddenly, every clapped out rust bucket is worth the same as the numbers-matching Red Car that caused such a panic when it was pushed, pulled or chugged up in view in a hail of blue smoke. The Letters of Credit start flying like hats at West Point Graduation Day, all pumped up by poseurs who claim to know what they're doing. Et voila! Everyone's an expert, 'cause they saw it on TV.
Some snowy night by the fire, over brandy and cigars, I'll share a few truly horrifying stories. In the meantime, beware that piece of shi...er, junk that's been trailered to the swap meet, freshly exhumed from a pre-Katrina Mississippi Delta burial chamber. You know, the Fixer Upper that Needs a Little TLC, or my personal favorite...Needs Restored.
Till then, can you wait for the next big crash to hold off buying that extra rare, dreamy Whizmobile you've always wanted?
Tom Gibson
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The only important thing we can do now, beside our own pet projects (or peeves), is to instill in the upcoming generations the same kind of love we have for cars, any cars. Whether its a low-mileage original, a Trailer Queen, driver, rod, or a full-blown Classic (as defined by the CCCA).
We can't take 'em with us, so aren't we all just caretakers, custodians? My Uncle Bill's (not Fester's) 1924 Dort Sedan might not get the Gold Chain Crowd's adrenaline raging at the Annual BJ Slaughter, but there's still a place for it somewhere. Hopefully, his grandson will enjoy, even treasure it the way I do. Because it's a connection to our shared past.
I truly enjoy these Forums as a way to share info, knowledge, collections, you name it. I'll help anyone with a question, even if it conflicts with my own (I'm 49) lifelong experiences and passion for the hobby. Dialog is good...if mine turns into diatribe, feel free to call me on it.
You can find me getting this 58K-mile, all-original '49 Roadmaster Sedan ready for its debut in the AACA's HPOF class. Heck, it doesn't even need paint! And when the time comes to let it go, you can rod it, restore it or make a coffee table out of it. But first, you'll have to pry the keys from my cold, dead hands.
Happy New Year,
Tom Gibson
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Brian,
What a beauty! There's just something about a true survivor that can't be beat. Thankfully, thru programs like the BCA's Archival, AACA's HPOF & DPC classes, etc., no one can claim that unrestored originals don't have a place in our hobby. Even if it has become big, BIG business.
We all have our tales of the One's That Got Away, but there can be no excuse for not using every tool at our disposal, all our networking powers, to save these much-loved cars. The attachment is from the '34 Model 40 Facts Book, printed in April, for the car's intro in May, 1934.
It turns my blood cold when I see the dreaded sub-title under an ebay (or other) ad for an all-original car:
RAT ROD.
Tom Gibson
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Greetings,
It's a Model 41 Club Sedan. No doubt about it. The dashes on the larger series had two large round gauges, flanked on either side by smaller round gauges. It's neat that this one has the optional clock.
What follows is quite sad. Some years ago while visiting friends in Pageland, SC, my buddy and I heard thru the local grapevine of a Big Ol' Buick under a tarp behind a truck driver's house. Following the lead (always!) we went to inspect it. Imagine our astonishment to find a '37 Roadmaster 80C, complete, but needing a total redo, requiring many more $$$$ than I could throw at it. One of 1155 built, it had served its owners for many years overseas in the Diplomatic Corps. The interior panels and bits were in a nearby shed.
The fellow had found it in a field while making a run one day, bought it from the proverbial old widow...you know the rest. The Lord told him he couldn't part with the car, even after I'd alerted many more well-heeled folks than myself.
Well, I guess the Lord finally told him to let go, and it wound up a few years ago at Charlotte AutoFair, with a new coat of paint, a ghastly Pimp My Ride pleather interior, and a new top that looked to have been cobbled up from a VW Thing. I didn't bother to look for the tell-tale Chevy small block and Mustang II front end. They (one of several Classic Car Dealers that annually lurk about at the show) hadn't even bothered to rechrome the grille!
No doubt the Devil made him do it!
Still heartbroken,
Tom Gibson
(I'm quite sure the new owner is very proud of all the 5-foot tall plastic trophies he garners with the car. There's plenty of room for 'em all, especially with the top down! One wonders though, where does he put the mirrors so we can see that Mustang II front end?)
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Greetings,
I hope it's not too late for your story, but here's what you seek:
http://geschiedenis.vpro.nl/artikelen/30443985/
You'll need a translator, as it's all in Dutch, but has loads of links and pix.
If you can't find it, do an Explorer search for Spyker Museum, Amsterdam; that's what I did.
And for your article, don't forget the Matchbox Series Model of Yesteryear # 16, 1904 Spyker.
That's how many American kids of a certain age became familiar with Spykers.
Hope it helps,
Tom Gibson
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Here's the '39 DeSoto hubcap. Bear in mind, the previous post has trim rings, but the car in photo does not. Based on the concentric rings and wide, smooth center disk where DeSoto would be painted in red, I'll still put my money on the '39 DeSoto.
For the Franj, I'm sorry for your loss of your dad; my mom passed away after a very brief, unexpected illness a week after last Mother's Day. She was just 73, and we all thought we'd have her for many years to come. At least she didn't have to suffer.
Tom Gibson
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Dave is right about the Dodge hubcaps; after looking at my (highly dramatized) '39 Dodge brochure, I was ready to commit to Dodge. But then another post elsewhere, in the CCCA Forum about Hayes-bodied '39 Chryslers led me to dig deeper.
Here's the '39 Dodge hubcap, straight from the Daimler-Chrysler Museum, compliments of mrpushbutton on the CCCA post. If you want to see the car itself, go to the CCCA General Forum and click on the '39 Chrysler New Yorker Hayes thread.
Following will be a DeSoto hubcap.
Tom Gibson
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Greetings,
My source states that the serial number is on a plate on the frame, as your friend stated; motor numbers are elsewhere, depending on series, year, etc. Serial numbers for the 1930 Dictator Six began at 1460001 and up. Your serial number falls within that range.
By the way, great data at the above-mentioned website!
Tom Gibson
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Greetings,
Hayes made about 1000 coupe bodies for Chrysler Corp. in 1939, divvied up in 6 series: Imperial 8 & New Yorker (125" WB), Royal 6 and Royal Windsor 6 (119" WB); DeSoto Custom (122.5" WB); Dodge Luxury Liner Deluxe (117" WB).
Here's a suggestion. Since the bodies are all the same, measure the Dodge body in the museum, and find a '39 Chrysler coupe for the front clip and rear fenders. The extra wheelbase length is from the cowl forward. As I recall, the trunklid has a distinctive ridge right down the middle and through the split backlight.
Also, I know I've seen a feature on the '39 Imperial 8 Club Coupe in the last 5-6 years, maybe in CARS & PARTS. It was a cream color and I remember coveting it for its extreme rarity.
Can't wait to see the model!
Tom Gibson
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Greetings,
I'd put my money on the 1939 DeSoto S6 Sedan, either Deluxe or Custom.
The hubcaps hold the key to the answer.
Tom Gibson
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Juha,
Here's the second image showing the Nash belt molding and hood louvers.
The photos prove that this was a very large auto for your friend's family;
the Nash Special Sixes were available on 116" and 122" wheelbases. This is
likely a Model 444 7-Passenger Sedan on the 122" chassis.
Tom Gibson
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Hyvaa Joulua Juha,
You don't ask the easy questions, do you? After much digging through my resources,
I can say, fairly surely, that the car in question is a 1929 Nash Special Six Sedan.
Introduced on June 21, 1928, the Special and Advanced Sixes featured new styling,
which included a unique belt molding. If you look at this photo closely, you'll see
the same treatment as the car in your friend's picture. Especially around the C-pillar
or back window on the side of the car in your second photo.
The next post I send shows the 1929 Nash Special Six belt molding and double row of
hood louvers. What confuses me is that the hood louvers (vents) are two different heights.
The hubcaps, though blurred, seem to be Nash also.
I'm always willing to help a fellow Suomilainen (though I'm just just half Finn) in their
quest for details about old cars.
Merry Christmas,
Tom Gibson
Anderson, SC USA
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Greetings,
The range of serial numbers for the 1956 Windsor's were W56-1001 to W56-75206.
That's for the Michigan-built cars; California cars range from W56L-1001 to W56L-7091.
The 331 CID motor numbers were WE56-1001 to WE56-81623.
Hope it helps.
Tom Gibson
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Here Goes Kids,
This attachment comes from my extensive archive and may put an end
to the lengthy repartee about when promos began. Look to the Hudson
article (Automotive News, 9/27/48) and the Chevy piece to give an idea
of the ACTUAL origins of promos. The OK Used Car deal is unatributed.
While I agree completely about scale models built by manufacturers for
publicity purposes (Cord, Tucker, etc.), perhaps this article will answer
the lingering question; When did it all begin?
The Hudson model in question cannot be verified by my long-time friend in
Orlando (the mentor of my meager multi-scale collection), but they most
certainly made the Ford, Buicks and Chevys. Care to venture a guess as to
the value today contained in this attachment?
Best leave that to those with deep pockets and the need to have EVERYTHING.
Be proud of what you have and share it with others; can you take it with you?
Happy collecting,
Tom Gibson
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Greetings,
I've been looking through old posts on the various forums, and came across
your post. I can't verify this car as a Delaunay-Belleville, as the photo looks
to have been touched up, but it does seem to have the rounded hood characteristic
of the marque.
Quite a coup (no pun intended) for the Warner Auto-Meter Company.
Hope you enjoy it.
Tom Gibson,
Anderson, SC
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...and finally...a pretty neat look at another type of automotive assembly line.
Hope y'all enjoy 'em,
Tom Gibson
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Yet another...
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And another, (I don't know how to gang them together yet)...
Can someone idenitify this car?
in What is it?
Posted
Greetings,
I'll cast my ballot for the 1929 Lincoln Model L (maybe '30?), for four reasons. The high door hinge on the belt molding, the locking toolbox on and height of the body sill, and don't laugh, the hubcap. Let the Lincoln experts ID the Model number, but I'd guess the Model 157 Willoughby Berline (Landau). Never mind that the 1930 7-Passenger Sedan photo here doesn't have dual sidemounts and wears the still-available artillery wheels. All Lincolns rode on a 136" WB, so you were right to surmise it was a luxury car. The production was 5 (five) each for Model 157, 1929 & Model 187, 1930. Price when new was $5900-$6000, depending on year (assuming it's the Willoughby version); a standard Lincoln Model L sedan set you back a paltry $4400.
According to the Standard Catalog, in '29 Lincoln changed their former leather visor to a glass one, so aussie6 was correct, too; thanks Ned. This Lincoln probably had a division window, and could be owner or chauffeur driven. Willoughby was a Custom Coachbuilder in Utica, NY, that bodied some of the great Classics of the day. By 1940, a '30 Lincoln had a cash value of $35 or so, that's what a used car dealer would've been willing to pay. Yikes! And we complain about today's car's depreciation.
A very rare car, indeed!
Happy New Year,
Tom Gibson