C-Lamb
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Posts posted by C-Lamb
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Most of the dried drops of very old gas were wiped off on in the process. The tank is empty, but you can see wet areas where it leaked and now that it's out in the light, you can see several old patches. I guess I know where the leak(s) where. Tomorrow I hope to install the new tank while my brother is in town.
While I was at the back of the car, I realized that with it on jack stands it was the perfect time to look at the rear frame. It's pretty clear that I have a short frame and no sign of an fix!
Anyone have good pictures of how the factory fix attached?
Thanks!
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On 4/15/2021 at 8:21 PM, MCHinson said:
In case someone is reading this in the future, I want to give some updated information. I recently learned that the guy at Bobby's Alignment and Radiator who did the work on my 1938 radiator was killed in a motorcycle crash. Bobby's is no longer able to do this type of work. Bobby recommends Rocky Mount Radiator for this type of work now. http://www.rockymountradiator.com/
Sorry to hear about that, thanks for the heads up. If Bull City Radiator can't do my work, I was planning to take it to Bobby's. 😞
Tonight I went out to finshing removing the tank in preparation to put the new one from Matt in. It was a bit hard to get to the junction in the fuel line, but even after all these years, it unscrewed easily and the tank is out. Picture to follow in a few minutes...
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Thanks to MCHinson for the tank! Made it home uneventfully and hoping to start on the install in a week or two... next weekend is blocked unfortunately, and I think I'll have to work tomorrow.
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Rebuilt the fuel pump after getting a kit for Christmas but been kind of slow with other stuff...
After the rebuild, tested the pump by hand and it didn't seem to be creating any suction, so eventually got around to disassembling and re-assembling, still didn't seem generate any suction but I decided to try it anyways! Rigged up up a filter at the carb and a gas can on the floor - and success!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WVdc5rcwKdVoeQn19
Next step, work on the tank!
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10 hours ago, 1939_Buick said:
And several things can go wrong
- switch on the gear lever
- wiring down the steering column
- flasher (6Volt)
The 1939 wiring diagram does show the indicator circuit
I think I am going to start checking the grounding and wiring into the trunk lid as that's most likely thing that's been disturbed. We'll see what the volt meter shows me! Found the diagram in the '42 manual, so it will be a matter of locating everything.
I haven't looked under the dash yet, but I assume the flasher and horn relay are both under there?
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Edit - OK I noticed that's a '38 wiring diagram linked to below and I'm checking the the shop manual now...
Another question... when we were exploring earlier the rear Buick logo was clearly acting as a blinker, (https://photos.app.goo.gl/ew9sRpFKJvs3zuju) but I can't recreate that behavior.
Looking at the wiring diagram linked below, I don't see either the directional switch or the bulbs. Am I just blind or is this something customized later?
Thanks again!
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6 hours ago, 1939_Buick said:
This may be of interest (may need to register for the site)
https://www.teambuick.com/reference/fuel_vacuum_pump.php
Section 6-63 and pages following in the 1942 shop manual has other information. (Chapter 7 Engine)
Download the 1942 Buick shop manual for free. All of it section by section.
Or click the pdf link to pay.
http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Buick/1942/Shop Manual/
It is very comprehensive and has information that can be used with all straight 8’s.
It has more information than was included in older “Shop Manuals” before 1942
Thank for the TeamBuick link, I'm going to have to study that article. I think I found the home for almost all of the parts, so a bit more studying and maybe I can track down the last few...
I'll review the shop manual again, but it seemed pretty cursoury wrt the pump rebuild.
Matt, thanks for explaining the hand throttle, that was my assumption, but wanted to make sure!
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One more question... is there an operators manual or similar to explain all the switch positions and such? Just want to make sure I find all the features. For example, there seems to be something like a manual choke knob/pull on the carb/dash, but it's not clear to my why/what it does since it has an automatic choke.
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OK, next question.. continues to run and start well from the suspended fuel bottle, so that's exciting. Even @35F it fires up on the 6V battery pretty reliably, even with not great wires.
Got a fuel pump rebuild kit for Christmas (from CARS) and have disassembled and cleaned the old one, which I think is "AB" maybe AKA 518?, but can't find a good exploded diagram to make sure I get all the right parts in the right places. I saw several threads here, including diagrams for an "AJ" on a confused '48, but nothing for mine. I don't find a model number on my cam arm or the unit, but the 3 main parts are marked ~FP 707, FP-713, FP-704.
Went ahead and ordered a Motors 6th edition (35-42) as it seemed like it might be useful from time to time.
A couple of pictures, including picture of failed diaphram, glad I didn't try to use it!
Thanks for any help with an appropriate diagram and Happy New Year!
Chris
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22 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:
Remember that to the best of my knowledge, all Model T's were gravity feed. Also the replacement Ford Model A was also gravity feed. When set up properly, the cars work fine.
For putting the fuel supply at the ceiling of the garage, you significantly increased the fuel pressure at the carb needle& seat. Maybe you have the float set too low? Plugged orifice in the seat? Trash in the fuel passage?
I was having problem with the '13 starving for fuel. Someone put a sediment bowl in the fuel line, rubber fuel line, and it looked like a wave form going up & down from the tank to the carb. I took out all of that stuff and put a straight steel line from the tank to the carb. Ended all of the fuel issues.
Understood. We have 6 tractors from the 50's (Ford 8N, 2 Cubs, 300 Utility, Allis Chalmers CA, Ford 8xx), all gravity fed.
But the '39 tank is probably 18" below the carb, it has to have a pump and therefore it pretty much must be setup with stronger float springs if nothing else to tolerate the positive pressure. There was a regulator (removed) before the carb, nominally 2PSI. This would seem to indicate that some positive pressure is expected at the carb. So, I have to believe that the carb expects at least a bit of pressure at the input to function. In the '39, I think it's all rigid line from the tank (real one) to the carb, with a sediment bowl at the pump input (I think, I have to look again).
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OK, one of the next questions... in filling the cooling system we learned a bit about it and took a few bits off to make sure we knew what was going on.
There doesn't seem to be a thermostat, I'll have to install one eventually. Any opinions?
I need to double check that the bypass valve is there, but I don't think it is, that seems more important to repair/replace to make sure there's good radiator flow. Recommendations?
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4 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:
I would tend to disagree on that point. I have three cars, two Buick's and a Model T and all are gravity feed. No pumps or other assistance. Just a steel line running from the bottom of the tank to the carb.
They all have maybe 1 ft of drop from the bottom of the tank to the carb inlet. They all run fine with less than one ft drop. In fact the '13 will run until there is absolutely zero gas in the tank before it stops. I know because I have been there done that.
Correct carb set up is the secret.
Interesting. The difference was dramatic, with the elevation, it started immediately and ran indefinitely (once we added a vent...). Without the elevation, it would do more than burn the primer I dribbled in. I assumed... that since there was a 2 lbs regulator originally in line that about 2PSI was required. With the elevation, it seems to be about perfect so I will keep an eye to improving the carb setup, but leave it as is until I find a clear problem.
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On 11/27/2020 at 11:15 PM, MCHinson said:
The round item on the right is similar to many different fuel pressure regulators that I have seen on vehicles of that era. Here is one example on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Filt-O-Reg-Fuel-Pressure-Control-Regulator-Vintage-Car-Truck-3-4lb-USA/143754127124?hash=item217869e714:g:BR0AAOSwFN9fbPZh.
I have never seen that type of fuel pressure regulator having any type of glass container like the green item on the left.
Another more common style is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/vntage-FIL-O-REG-fuel-pressure-regulator-STROMBERG-97-carburetor-Ford-Flathead/193615006087?hash=item2d145a8987:g:y54AAOSw59peZCyd
If you do a search for Filt-O-Reg Fuel Pressure Regulator you will find a lot of different varieties, including this photo which I assume is similar to yours:
In any case, it is not original Buick equipment, so you may want to consider replacing it with a more traditional fuel filter. I actually do run aftermarket Filt-O-Reg fuel pressure regulators on my Buicks of this era, but I have never seen one that included a glass bowl like that in person.
Fuel pressure regulators seem pretty common. I think there's a sediment bowl before the pump, so I'll try to filter there. In my reading yesterday it seems the Holley regulators are pretty popular - so, is something like this recommended?
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Holley-12-804-Adjustable-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-1-4-PSI,383.html
If so, what problem is it solving and how would I observe it?
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15 hours ago, C-Lamb said:
Kept fiddling a bit off and on today. Dad pointed out that, unlike the tractors, gravity feed w/ 1ft of elevation is not enough. So, we hung our improvised tank from the ceiling and bingo, she runs. Topped up the water and it seems to cooling and everything. Looks like there is no thermostat installed, but I don't think anyone is surprised by that!
Here's a video - (or two)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nMCGCXizHpDvEUun8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pKteWBZXk9PAqGur9
Looks like I'll continue in maintenance mode for awhile longer, replacing ignition components, rebuild the fuel pump, and such until we find something major.
Not only was I pleasantly surprised that it ran, with minimal (barely audible) rod bearing noise (Walmart 15-40 diesel oil for initial runs), but the temp gauge worked well and the oil pressure indicated ~45lbs cold / fast idle and ~15lbs hot/slow idle. Didn't expect either gauge to work or to have that much pressure.
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On 9/20/2020 at 10:42 PM, MCHinson said:
For the Glass, I would suggest: http://www.vendio.com/stores/bobsclassicautoglass/item/buick-glass/1939-1940-buick-4-door-touring/lid=36442608
For the gas tank, if it had non-ethanol fuel in it, it might surprise you. My 1938 Century was parked for 23 years. The inside of the gas tank was in wonderful condition. An old fashioned radiator shop can probably clean, check, and possibly repair a fuel tank if needed. There are also several suppliers of gas tanks. I doubt they have a specific 1939 Buick tank (I know they don't have 1937 or 1938 Buick tanks), but if you need a new tank they probably have one close enough that will fit in the same area, and probably will just need some minor modification to work. This is one such company: https://www.tanksinc.com/?msclkid=2e97dbebc31a146089968483d1cf3533&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP Branded&utm_term=Tanks Inc Gas Tanks&utm_content=Tanks Inc Gas Tanks
If you decide that you want one of their poly tanks. I have one that was on my restoration body donor 1938 Special that I will make you a heck of a deal on, if you want to pick it up here in Wilmington. I think it is either their 1937 or 1938 Ford or Chevy tank, but I don't remember which.
Matt,
Sounds like I might be getting closer to needing a tank. Let's see how the pandemic goes and maybe in mid_January I'll drive down!
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Kept fiddling a bit off and on today. Dad pointed out that, unlike the tractors, gravity feed w/ 1ft of elevation is not enough. So, we hung our improvised tank from the ceiling and bingo, she runs. Topped up the water and it seems to cooling and everything. Looks like there is no thermostat installed, but I don't think anyone is surprised by that!
Here's a video - (or two)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nMCGCXizHpDvEUun8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pKteWBZXk9PAqGur9
Looks like I'll continue in maintenance mode for awhile longer, replacing ignition components, rebuild the fuel pump, and such until we find something major.
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9 hours ago, MCHinson said:
The round item on the right is similar to many different fuel pressure regulators that I have seen on vehicles of that era. Here is one example on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Filt-O-Reg-Fuel-Pressure-Control-Regulator-Vintage-Car-Truck-3-4lb-USA/143754127124?hash=item217869e714:g:BR0AAOSwFN9fbPZh.
I have never seen that type of fuel pressure regulator having any type of glass container like the green item on the left.
Another more common style is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/vntage-FIL-O-REG-fuel-pressure-regulator-STROMBERG-97-carburetor-Ford-Flathead/193615006087?hash=item2d145a8987:g:y54AAOSw59peZCyd
If you do a search for Filt-O-Reg Fuel Pressure Regulator you will find a lot of different varieties, including this photo which I assume is similar to yours:
In any case, it is not original Buick equipment, so you may want to consider replacing it with a more traditional fuel filter. I actually do run aftermarket Filt-O-Reg fuel pressure regulators on my Buicks of this era, but I have never seen one that included a glass bowl like that in person.
Thanks Matt, interesting to see I've found something unusual!
Mine does look very much like the one shown, just the unusual glass. I didn't really study the text as I should have to realize it was also a regulator! My old tractors are gravity fed and therefore just have sediment bowls, so that was all I paid attention to, doh!
At least now I have the right term for Google, thanks!
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Well front wheel cylinders replaced and wheel bearings cleaned and repacked...at least good enough for now.
So I started playing with trying to run it a bit more with a temporary fuel supply, did run for a few seconds, but I found my sediment bowl leaked - from the top of the assembly, not from the bowl seal. So, a did a bit of googling... doesn't seem to be one like this anywhere. Most listings seem to have plain clear ones, similar to my tractors...
Anyone know anything about these and how to rebuild? Thanks in advanc!
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23 hours ago, buick looks fine for 39 said:
You're getting excellent advice from the forum about gas with ethanol, your car will run fine using it. Be aware gas containing ethanol can rupture the diaphragm in your fuel pump and it's not a bad idea to replace the diaphragm with modern ethanol resistant material. In answering the question about oil pumps it's mainly a problem with 248 engines 1938, 1939, and maybe early 1940. The oil pump gears prior to 1940 are 1 inch in diameter and the later oil pump gears 1941-47 are 1 1/4 inches in diameter which allows for a higher oil out put. The 60-80-90 oil pumps also have 1 1/4 inch gears for 38-47
Thanks. As soon as I get some front brakes, it will be it will be time to see if she will run for more than a few seconds... gradually integrating more and more of the fuel system.
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On 11/20/2020 at 8:05 AM, MCHinson said:
What solvent are you using? My 1938 Century sat outside for 23 years near Boston before I got it. All four wheel cylinders were frozen. I found that on mine, I hosed them down with a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. After waiting 24 hours, I was able to use a wooden dowel and a hammer to tap the pistons out of the wheel cylinders. All of them were freed up and able to be cleaned up and reused.
Matt, I've bee soaking one in that and I added 100 psi to it as well to force the solvent into anything I could, no luck.. I'll mess with it a bit more tomorrow, had to work on the 2004 today.
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Good evening, quick update on the brakes. Front wheel cylinders have been out and soaking for a few days but aren't budging. Can hammer them in a bit but can't move them out, even 100PSI from the air-compressor and they don't budge. Same when torquing it down pretty seriously with the vice and a socket for a ram.
Looks like it's time for new ones, NAPA has them for $35, should be able to get 20% off unless someone has a better idea. At least that will be easy!
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Just a quick update. Been slow, but got thte parts washers setup and the front brakes pretty well flushed. Brake pedal is firm but no movement from either cylinder. Rebuild kits are $5 at NAPA, so picked those up and I hope to do one this weekend. Cleaned one of the wheel-bearings, looks excellent, so that's promising as well. As soon as I get the brakes close to working, I'll tackle the radiator.
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A couple of other random questions for the experts:
- What is the recommended solution for the lack of lead in modern gas?
- I have seen that there were several upgrades to the oil pump out there, what's the recommended source for the best pump and gaskets?
Thanks!
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On 10/30/2020 at 9:55 PM, Barney Eaton said:
So many things can go bad with age....... my '39 pulled hard to the right when you first applied the brakes.... pulled the front wheels and had a broken return spring.
I thought that was the problem but it was almost as bad with new springs.
Turned out the flex hose to the wheel cylinder was badly cracked and damaged on the inside ... new hosed corrected the problem.
Yes, these hoses were clogged with black goo but weren't too hard to clear. The outside looks remarkably good. However, they are on the short list of stuff to replace. Once I've been around the block and the short list has become long! I'd like to find out the scope of the challenges and might be badly wrong and then make a long term plan. I think a lot of these things were addressed when the previous owner did the interior back in the '70's as the brakes look excellent. Hopefully, I can move it around the yard and such soon... but next to test the wheel cylinders and see if they move.
Noobie and his '39 Century
in Buick - Pre War
Posted
Still plugging away... have straps and installed the tank, but took it out so I can unclog the fuel line.
Running brake fluid through it a few times a day and waiting for it to clear up... I can at least get wire in from either end and blow compressed air, so that's an improvement, but what comes out is still nasty.