devildog93
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Posts posted by devildog93
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Ok, i took some pictures of the floorpans. I have a few touch-ups to do including one more minor patch and some grinding, but here goes:
I'll have some more once i get done with the trunk and the por 15. Hopefully he next batch will be finished product on the floor and trunk prior to carpet.
Just wanted to add a few notes about the floorpan installation. First, i thought the pans were pretty nice and gave me plenty of metal to work with. They were classic2current pieces i purchased through Rockauto. Second, there is an art to fitment. Nothing is going to go perfect and always leave room for error. I found that i could always come back and cut more, but if metal shrinks away from an edge filling the gap is a bear.
There is always more rust than you think. The welder will find it if you don't, and nothing slows things down like having to shut the welder off, cut more rust out, and fabricate new patches. i don't really know how i could have avoided this more than i did, but a little more attention to detail might have helped. I used the basic screwdriver trick and added an inch out to try and be safe. That still wasn't good enough in a few spots. ah well, just more situations to practice fabrication i suppose.
Lastly, if things are going well don't get in a hurry. I was cruising along on the middle panels and welded them in cleanly real well....before i had marked the holes for the seat frame bolts. Many hours of exploratory drilling later i wished i had slowed down to premark them.
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The way i look at it is like everything else in life. No one is going to care as much about your stuff as you do. What you lack in skill can most often be made up for with desire,determination and attention to detail. The downside is that it may take you 10x as long as someone else or you may have to take multiple runs at it. Someone had to be the first to do things at some point right? I just figure i am resetting that process, but with the benefit of any experience and info. i can pick up along the way. I have had enough things screwed up by other people that i tend to do them myself if it is even remotely possible be it plumbing, auto work, or home repair. I don't even like jumping into the middle of a auto ticket someone else has worked. If i didn't pull it apart then i am missing some of the process before i even get started.
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Well, here is my 64 Buick riviera that i bought for a whopping $500.
It runs and drives. this started out as a car i was going to possibly flip, but the more i looked at it and thought about what needed to be done, i decided to make it a driver and hold on to it. I really like the lines on the Riviera and i like the fact it isn't something i have seen around all that much, like 69 camaros and such. Ok, so i decided to keep it and use it for a daily driver if and when it is finished. This won't be a trailer queen. I want to enjoy it and use what i have put work into. If i feel like i need something upgraded i am going to give it a shot if i think it will improve drive-ability, safety, or just make it cooler. It won't be a numbers matching, bias-ply wearing, am radio stock car, but i will keep what i can. I will not be putting a Chevy motor in it if i can help it.
Ok, so far here is the list of things i have done:
neutral/safety switch(the old one was done to start with)
turned all drums/rotors, new pads/wheel cylinders,
brake lines replaced
new single master cylinder(kicking myself on this one, it will get upgraded again at some point)
changed points to hei ignition(fireball 2)
new plug wires/plugs
had gas tank chemically dipped, then coated it outside with black por-15
replaced fuel lines
Ok, so i got most of the mechanical stuff out of the way so it was safe to drive, then i began the real tear-down. Both window seals were blown, so yea, there had been water on the firewall, all interior floorpan panels, the back window channel, and the trunk. Here are a few pictures of that:
Have a few more pics of the rusted sections, but you get the idea...it isn't real good. I ended up purchasing a few things at this point including all floorpan panels from rockauto and a trunk repair kit from por-15. I was pretty dang happy with the way the gas tank turned out, so i wanted to give it a shot on the interior and trunk as well. I began using the screwdriver to find all my rusty spots. It was way worse than i thought. The floorpans got most of it, but i needed to go even further into the transmission tunnel and higher up behind the gas pedal. I also had places to fab patches fo the trunk, both quarters and the inner wheelwells(which i have not done yet). I am done with the welding on all the floorpans, just have a couple of little spots under and inch to fill and a small gap to fill, then i will be taking pictures of my work prior to putting down the por-15 and the seam sealer.
I really wanted to do a frame-off full blown resto, but the shop is already the site of 3 projects including this one....so blowing it up all the way at this time was getting frowns from the shop owner. I saw a thread a while back where a guy made a driver and came back to blow it up and do it all the way. That is likely going to be my plan as well. So next up is doing the metal prep work for laying down the por-15, same on the trunk, then carpet for both.
Bear in mind i have never done any restoration work prior to this. I was a mechanic for 2 years, then a electronic technician for 20, and now i'm back to mechanic work. My welding experience before this was welding square tubing for horse trailers when the welder was out sick for a day here and there. Sheet metal was a bit of a different beast. So was welding in the car.
I'll take some pics of the interior Monday and post them.
- Devildog
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Incredible job on the metal fab/welding on the firewall. I've been tackling that myself and wish mine looked that good, especially floorpans. Ah well, back to work on it.
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I turned my drums with zero problem, but the machine we use was probably new around the same time the drums were new on the car originally. They don't build machines like they used to. In this case i think that is a bad thing. Same with a lot of the metalworking machines.
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Well, i suppose that is still a possibility. I'm staring at raw floor pans stitched in prior to painting with por 15. Cutting holes for the motors would be doable, but kind of tacky right? At least i know what i'm kind of looking for and problem areas. So it looks like no matter what i grab i'm going to have to fabricate a bit, so looking for anything specific doesn't seem as important as i thought it might be. Any amount of fabrication would be easier than trying to bring my damaged seats back to life.
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Ok, so i'm getting ready to finish the floors and trunk on my 64 Riviera and was trying to get ahead of the game a bit so i don't get stalled on the next portion. My front seats are thrashed and i'm considering custom options. I don't want racing seats or anything of that sort, but more of a same type of thing option. Unfortunately i don't think there is enough metal left in my seats to save them, so i am wondering about grabbing power seats out of something else, then trying to color and style match them.
I had come across a post a month or so ago that said something about possibly using cadillac eldorado power seats, but i can't seem to find it. That is looking more like an option i'm going to have to pursue if anyone has any more information about them, such as maybe what years you would suggest looking towards.
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Outstanding man. I'm about a month out from doing my seats. Always great to see people taking something and bringing it back to life.
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Sorry Rivnut, i am on and off, working on my project and a couple of others that aren't mine. I am playing catch-up with the auto repair. It was a hobby off and on, but now it's a full-time job. I was a electronics technician for 20 years and now i'm converting back to working on cars. I might check the boards every day, or it might be a week. Nothing with any regularity to it.
As to my floor pans, i ordered them from rockauto. They fit reasonably well except the rust went beyond what the panels covered in areas, so i had to cut more and use scrap sheet metal to patch that. It most definitely is not a Chip Foose job, but it is my first time welding anything but square tubing on boat trailers. I'm fairly happy with how it has turned out so far. There were things i would do different if i had to do it again and there is definitely a flow to things. I tried to use a known good edge and work from there on each piece. Usually that was from the rocker panel side, but sometimes i had to start with a different edge just to make sure i got a good fit on the area i was having the most problems with.
I had a couple of options to putting the panels in with butt welding or lap welding. I tried both. At my experience level overlapping was probably the best option. Trying to butt weld is fairly difficult i found. Sheet metal shrinks with heat and that ended up with some big gaps in the end that i had to fill in and more fabricating. I tried using air in between welds and that seemed to help a little bit. I had a experienced welder looking over my work and giving me tips here and there, but his main opinion was that you can't learn any better than by doing. Basically he wasn't going to let me butcher it, but tried to let me figure it out on my own.
Anyway, i'll start my own thread on it when i get the floors done at least. I have one more plate to weld in on the passenger side and some cleaning up to do. After that i think i am going to hit all the seams with eastwood rust converter, seam sealer, then go over the top with por 15 silver. I plan on doing the floor and the trunk at the same time then going over it with a flat black basecoat. When it is done i'll post the before and after pictures.
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It sounds like you are a good candidate for the drum to disc conversion if you were thinking about it before the problems. Always an option at least.
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They've done a .45 in all metal, so metal parts are on the way. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/170574-the-worlds-first-3d-printed-metal-gun-is-a-beautiful-45-caliber-m1911-pistol
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My point was that the cars are meant to be driven, and modified to a certain point. I am not talking about a booming system or any of the cliquish b.s. , but more the functional working technology we use today like having a usb port, fm capability, and maybe satellite radio. Yea sure. it will go to crap if we get hit with a emp attack, but i figure i'll worry about that when i have to. I didn't mean installing speakers that shake the neighbors windows, but merely going past the cans and a string tech of the 60s in certain aspects. Why would anyone be opposed to upgrading brakes, getting the car to perform better in the winter with fuel injection, things like that?
As to people expecting top dollar for their modifications, well i suppose that is why we have an open market. There are plenty of cars i don't like, but someone putting a different air cleaner on a riviera is way down the list of evils compared to say..swapping a 425 nailhead for a sb 350 chevy. Purists and people wanting to change things are always going to be at odds i suppose. Hey, i threw away my air cleaner, or maybe i chopped it up to use as part of my trunk patch or quarter repairs. I had a old finned air cleaner assembly off a early 60s vette that i thought looked a bit better
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Man some of you guys are going to get real butthurt when mine is finished if you are freaking out over air cleaners. The tastes here seem to lean towards all original, and i can respect that....but griping about people not having a stock radio...really? We aren't talking about firebird#1 and#2 here fellas. These aren't 6 figure cars for the most part. What is wrong with bringing them back partially into this century? Everyone's taste is different, but i think as long as the heart(the engine), the body and the interior are all good you at least have the core complete. I wouldn't consider the car trashed if someone put a aftermarket air cleaner in place of the original monstrosity. I personally think it was ugly and underwhelming, get over it. The only redeeming feature of the air cleaner on my 64 is the aluminum inset with the wildcat 465 logo.
I fell in love with the body lines the moment i saw my first riviera, but the minor stuff i wouldn't fret over. My perfect Riviera would have a o/d trans. , disc brakes, fuel injection, and yes...a stereo system from this century. Hell i might even go further and mess with the instrument cluster. I also saw someone who had taken the wood inserts and turned them into brushed aluminum pieces which looked awfully nice. Different strokes for different folks i suppose. I draw the line on certain mods, like lowering and bagging, changing the motor and such, but i know those are just my own personal hangups.
By taking digs at every little modification you really are attacking hot rodding in general, and this is certainly a car that can be modified and perform better than original. 1/4 of my car is going to end up being stuff i modified or fabricated to some extent whether i originally wanted to or not. Rust seems to win the battle between original and modified on a lot of the metalwork. If it's broken or in bad shape it needs to be replaced. Original equipment is not always an option, and most definitely not always the best option unless you are a guy who cries when they don't see an original batter tray and bias ply tires.
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I wasn't crapping on the daily driver car. I was merely saying that something that is a frame off restoration has had more work done to it. As to the level of the work, or what you value it at, i have no idea....but i can definitely appreciate the amount of work that goes into doing a frame off while i am midway through a frame on myself. Would i pay the 24k or do it myself? I paid $600 for a basket case that i am currently performing surgery on, so i would rather do it myself....but i give them something for getting a car to a rust-free state. It obviously underwent a lot of work to get to the state it is in.
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The black one is a driver, the silver one has had a frame-off restoration...so they really aren't comparable. I think the driver has a 425 and the resto has a 401. Different level of quality there for sure.
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I had a very similar issue with mine. It has been sitting since 84 or so. I had never had a car with front drums, so it was a little bit of an adventure now knowing exactly how they should feel. Eventually i was thinking of doing the disc brake conversion on the front. My problem turned out to be the lines. I resurfaced the drums, new shoes all the way around, and got a new master cylinder. I could get the brake pedal hard, but was having the same problem with the brake pedal. It turned out i had either garbage in the lines or they had collapsed. I troubleshot this by disconnecting all the brake lines and running compressed air through them back and forth until i could find the problem areas. I found two garbage spots that had stoppages and ended up replacing hard lines and learning how to flare ends.
After sitting for 30 years i suppose it is normal to expect some things to be plugged up. Anyway, you might try troubleshooting with air and see if you can find any of the hard lines plugged up. A decent bender and flaring tool are not too expensive and the brakes are definitely a high priority to get right. After re-doing my lines and such it now stops like a champ. Yea, it isn't like 4 wheel disc, but it actually isn't bad at all. The brake pedal feels like it should on just about any other car now that all the lines are in good shape.
p.s. - Jim is right on the money. I replaced all the flexible hoses. They were dry rotted and looked like garbage from the outside, so i knew they were likely crap on the inside as well. If you still have problems after that then you will have to troubleshoot the hard lines from end to end and work back towards the middle until you find the bad spots and can determine what has to be replaced. My problem areas were at the last turn to the gas tank and and about halfway down the passenger side of the car(which was a easy straight piece to replace).
Redoing the line sections i had to deal with was fairly cheap, even if you consider the cost of tools. I think i got the flexible lines from rockauto.
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I look around from time to time to see if anyone is making them again and saw this manufacturer come up. http://www.distinctiveindustries.com/catalog/custom-door-panels/rear-quarter-panels/621-896. Does anyone know anything about these guys? I'm going to keep digging and see what i can find, but i thought i might hit you guys up as well. 9 times out of 10 if i hit on something like this they were throwing it out there to gauge interest or have since quit producing them. Worth a shot. I'm still months away from getting to the rear quarters on my 64, but after replacing the majority of the floor and having to fabricate a few pieces myself having decent patch panels for the quarters would definitely save some time.
Never mind, after some checking it is the interior vinyl wrapped quarters as they do only interiors.
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300k for that piece of engineering....definitely not for me. As to what the riddler award is for...i guess i don't get the whole spirit of it. I don't really think yanking out a nailhead and throwing in a crate motor is exciting engineering, but i guess we each have things we would change and things we wouldn't. I would have been 10x more impressed had he kept the original nailhead and improved upon it. The frame change is nice, but a nailhead with aluminum heads that could breathe better paired with the turbos sure would have been showing off your engineering/fab skills more in my opinion...and would keep the heart of the original car. And yes, that would be beyond my meager skill level before anyone asks. Definitely lots of work, but 300k, still can't get over that.
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To those that think no one remembers...that isn't true. Maybe they are dwindling, but those heroes still inspire people. I grew up on WW2 stories from my grandfather and great uncle and share them whenever i get the chance. My grandfather's brother inspired me to join the Marines and i hope my passing on the stories to others did the same. As long as people keep telling the stories none of these people will be forgotten, even if no one remembers specific names. They were still part of something bigger than any of us will likely have a chance to be involved in. I can only hope these guys know that some of us draw daily inspiration from their stories and use them as a signpost on how to live our lives.
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Everything i touch electric-wise on my 64 turns to dust if it is plastic. I have just about given up trying to save connectors. Garage is garbage and i plan on replacing all the wiring and plugs/connectors myself. Even the ones i salvaged i do not feel good about from a safety/common sense point of view. 50 year old connectors are going to be junk and likely need to be replaced right? Yea i'm sure rewiring the whole car is going to be a blast, but the electrical is not something i would want to half-ass.
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Will do, thanks.
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My 64 did not come with keys. I pulled the trunk lock cylinder(took just a few minutes), took it to a locksmith, and 4 hours later i picked up a set of keys for the car.
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i also got floorpans from rockauto. I think c2c produces them. Rockauto sold them for 52.50 a piece i think and i ended up needing 3 of the 8 pieces available. Now if only they had quarter panels i would have been set.
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My next question would be : how do we order a copy of that review? Sounds like good information for anyone considering the swap.
My 64 Riv project
in Buick Riviera
Posted · Edited by devildog93 (see edit history)
I have plenty of scrap left over from a few of the panels and what i cut out to make most patches. If i run out i always have the original air cleaner i can use;)
Old floorpan remnant:
former air cleaner and unknown replacement:
Hopefully i will be using neither one eventually. I plan on going witth the fast ez efi setup, so that will open up intake possibilities.
p.s. - cutting out plug welds sucks big time. If i cut a plug weld out i tried my best to simulate a plug weld going back in. I didn't take pictures of the repair, but i even had to replace portions of the support under the front floorpans due to rust. They were much thicker guage and were far easier to weld than sheet metal though.