Ariejan NL
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Posts posted by Ariejan NL
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Neither did I. You'd expect that this potentially prize-winning combination would have filled all front pages, but surprisingly not. Firestone-Columbus images are as scarce anyway.
20 minutes ago, StanleyRegister said:There are some pictures of F-C's in the auto magazines of the day, but I can't find any image of this slinky speedster.
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On this image of the Firestone-Columbus entrant for the Indianapolis Sweepstakes of 1912 (Lee Frayer at the wheel), the identical steering gear arrangement can be clearly observed.
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A beautiful couple like this I haven't seen very often! Interestingly the address led me to Columbus, Ohio and thus to the most likely solution: a 1912 Firestone-Columbus speedster. Uploaded an image of a 1912 Firestone-Columbus with a rather curious body, but the identical central levers can be seen here as well as the left hand steering wheel. This image still shows the older type of front fenders, but in 1912 these are like the speedster: curved further around the wheel without vizor. The steering gear arrangement going through the lower left corner of the hood is not standard, but can also be found on a racer with Eddie Rickenbacker at the wheel (image in the collection of the Ohio Historical Soc.). The bends in the chassis are almost completely hidden by the protection plate above the running board, but the front bend is just visible, just as the last letter of the script on the radiator.
Unfortunately I could find no image of a similar car in my archive, but knowing name and date someone should be able to find something!.jpg.84696823abd328537a19872cd249e608.jpg)
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I have to correct myself: I forgot to look in the 1909 Handbook of Gasoline Automobiles, where the runabout can be found 🙂
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Well found, I didn't have these models in my archive. I agree with the runabout, it's clearly a single seat in the back.
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The car seems to be a Chalmers-Detroit, but apparently not a participant. It could have been an officials car, though. The car has a lot in common with the 1910 Chalmers-Detroit, but the body is not standard. So the car is still puzzling me, especially because no emblem is present on the radiator. Another puzzle is the license plate C538. A photo of a Renault is present in the same series with nr. C4068. I couldn't find, where these plates originated from. By the way, according to the captions these photos were made during the Long Island Endurance Run of that year, which was run directly after the All-Connecticut Reliability Run.
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There are still many mysteries to solve 😉
1 hour ago, 37PackardMan said:Thanks. I find it odd that the Four back fender curves down whereas the Six flares straight back.
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Air-cooled indeed, but in this case a 1910 Cameron Four. I couldn't find a similar side view for the Four, so uploaded a Six with the longer hood. For the Four a three-quarter front view. Obvious similarities are the flat-angle steering column with the control lever bar on top, the long French-like spring horns and the side levers with the slightly tilted hand grips. Other details match as well.
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This is a rather rare car, a De La Roulière, designed by the man with the same name for the Grand Prix des Voiturettes of 1908. Uploaded a photo as printed in the daily French paper L'Auto of June 29, 1908, where details of the car can be read (in French!). The car didn't finish the first round of the race due to mechanical problems. In September of the same year during the Meeting de Royan the car would win the mile in 1 min. 57 secs. And that seems to have been the end of it.
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Many early makes had a similar arrangement of transversal springs, differing in detail. This car seems to fit best with a National Electric road wagon style H of 1901. Small differences are in the dashboard (flat) and the lamp shape (see uploaded folder page), but the springing system and other details do match.
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My guess would be a 1904 Darracq.
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On 8/29/2023 at 6:03 PM, Terry Bond said:
It appears to be a studio prop car so probably a put together mock up. Not Napier. Hood is incorrect and the body itself is too small. Where's the steering wheel? Carbide generator suggests an earlier car but nothing about the body itself seems to match the time frame for earlier brass age.
Terry
I'm sorry to say, but I read at least three incorrect statements in this comment: the car is not a photo prop; the hood is correct; and the steering wheel is probably hidden behind the girl.
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This car is quite a challenge to identify. The Napier suggestion however is an attractive one, though in that scenario the car has been 'americanized' in a thorough way: body, fenders and windscreen all are American style. However hood (bonnet) and especially rad filler tube are Napier-style, as well as the wire wheels, a feature of many British makes during the early '10s. Unfortunately for the rest not many chassis details are visible, so it's not 100% certain, but I can live with the Napier suggestion 🙂
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The car is a ca 1907 Pierce Great Arrow. Just visible is the charataristic rounded dash. Another id feature is the rather complex handle configuration below the steering wheel.
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Left-hand steering was characteristic for this model!
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Depending on the country where this photo was taken, it is a Vivinus (Belgium), Georges Richard (France) or New Orleans (England). The latter two makes produced the Vivinus under licence. Date of production: 1899-1900.
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There were a few posts on Staver at TheOldMotor.com. That's all I can add.
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12 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:
Hi Ariejan, I know your specialty is the more obscure early European cars. By the way thanks for many of the ones you have done for Bozi, some of which I have sent him. I thought it uncharacteristic for you to struggle with an identification so I messaged Varun about it. He seems to have got that one very quickly. The US brass era stuff appears to be his forte.
Hi Mark, you're welcome. Indeed my specialty is pre-WW1 European cars, but I have a good background in American material of that period as well. And indeed, I do not ask for help normally. However, I'm glad I asked for it, because now I know there is somebody out there (Varun!) with the same focus on this old stuff 😉
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Hi Varun, you're amazing! I must have missed the logo, because I remember to have searched in my Croxton-Keeton file. Probably I was focussed then too much on the rad shape. The problem with the German type of Croxton-Keeton is that 1) the French type (with the Renault-type bonnet) is very dominant and 2) bonnet frontal images of the German type are virtually absent: in my files several side views are present (the US are the champion side views of cars in ads) and then I had two photos taken from three-quarters rear side, which doesn't help either. Your picture from the DPL-archive is the only other picture taken partly from the front. Though not sharp, all details seem to fit, so you must be correct. This means that we're looking at a very rare frontal image of a 1909-1910 Croxton-Keeton 45hp German type touring car! You made my day!
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That is the point. There are several triangles in car emblem history, but always pointing down, never up.
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Help needed for the identification of this car! Based on its appearance it is a 1910-1912 touring car. The license plate was issued in Ohio in either 1912 or 1913 based on the pattern. Although the last digit of the year is hardly readable, my impression is that it is 1913. The image is not very sharp, but the round emblem with light triangle is clearly visible. Does anyone ever come across a similar emblem? Also the radiator and shell are distinctive with the segmented cooling block and the half circle indent for the crank handle. Its make however remains a mystery for me despite an intensive search.
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The car is 1901/1902 8hp double phaeton, see uploaded image. The fender style was more common on the tonneau model, but was used on other models too. The rounded dumb-irons at the front were characteristic for early De Dion-Bouton models, though they were not the only make using these.
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13 hours ago, Craig Gillingham said:
I should have made this a bit clearer; the photo was an example of a pre 1910 steering wheel. I wasn't suggesting this is what the unidentified steering wheel was.
This photo is of an unidentified car that was auctioned a while ago. It came from here:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/11245/lot/684/
Thanks! Now I remember too. I found in my files a short note about its find in an issue of The Automobile in 2004.
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I'm a bit puzzled by this photo,
On 6/15/2023 at 12:23 AM, Craig Gillingham said:To me it looks like a steering wheel made at least before 1910. It doesn't really look like a steering wheel off a 20's vehicle.
I'm a bit puzzled by this photo, which is a mystery in itself. Could you tell me please what it is? Thanks!
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1910s, possibly European ?
in What is it?
Posted · Edited by Ariejan NL
Wrong post (see edit history)
Probably ca 1913 Delage